Canal

Treasure Beach Forum: TB Runnin's: Canal
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By axel on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 03:56 pm: Edit Post

Did you read the letter-in the gleaner-Canal illegal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thank you, Diana from JET on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 05:11 am: Edit Post

Here it is:

LETTER OF THE DAY - JET's concern
Published: Wednesday | May 20, 2009

The Editor, Sir:

The Jamaica Environment Trust (JET) is concerned that work has recommenced on the drainage canal in the vicinity of Great Bay in Treasure Beach, although the project has never received the required permits and licenses and is, therefore, being constructed in clear breach of both the Natural Resources Conservation Authority (NRCA) Act and the Beach Control Act.

Drainage projects require an environmental permit under the NRCA Act and as the canal runs from the Great Pedro Pond to the sea and, therefore, through the foreshore, it also requires a beach licence. Neither has ever been issued.

According to JET's research, the community of Great Bay experienced serious flooding in 2005 following hurricanes Emily and Wilma and sought drainage solutions. Despite the clear requirements of the law, the National Works Agency (NWA) proceeded to commence the canal in 2006 without the required permits and in the absence of environmental oversight. Despite objections from JET, the National Environment and Planning Agency (NEPA) took no action.

Work stalled on the canal in 2007 and 2008 and the excavated channel began to collapse. Alarmed when work restarted in 2009 still without any legal status, JET sought and received the environmental documents, relied upon by NEPA, to manage the work. These documents cannot be taken seriously. Of the 57 potential environmental issues posed by the canal, only three were identified by the NWA as having any environmental impact whatsoever - noise, dust and displacement of people. We cannot understand why NEPA accepted this assessment.

Ecological resource

Great Pedro Pond is an important ecological resource and a home for many types of wildlife, especially birds. Draining the pond to the sea could not only cause damage to the marine environment, but it could also present a channel for storm surge from sea to land. We understand that a drainage solution is needed for the people of Great Bay, but we believe this canal, as designed and illegally built, presents dangers to the environment and possibly to human life and property.

JET calls on NEPA to take enforcement action against the NWA, including sanctions, and conduct an urgent and thorough assessment to identify drainage measures that will not harm the environment.

I am, etc.,

Diana McCaulay
Chief Executive Officer
Jamaica Environment Trust
11 Waterloo Road


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 07:42 am: Edit Post

Yesterday I received preliminary comments from the coastal engineer. In his view, the canal is too deep and WILL present a risk of channelling a quite modest storm surge onto land. We are doing a thorough assessment of both the engineering and the ecology, and will let you all know when the results are ready. I have also been in touch with the new CEO at NEPA, Peter Knight, and he promises a review this week. Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By T. on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 10:12 am: Edit Post

Wow. This is amazing. Diana, I am so glad you have gotten involved with Treasure Beach. Your clear thinking and knowledge about the environment will be a great help and service to the community. Any one of us could have told NWA that the canal was a mistake -- and many of us did -- but to have the points made so clearly as your letter does is wonderful.

It would never have occurred to me that the canal could actually channel a storm surge. We are only lucky that such a thing hasn't happened yet. If Hurricane Dean had blown up from the south instead of down from the north, that might have happened, and I hate to think what that would have meant for the people of Great Bay.

If it is determined that the canal cannot stand as it is, what are some options for what might happen? Is it possible to reverse the land damage that has already occurred?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keep Helping Us JET on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 09:57 am: Edit Post

There has already been water that has flowed "backwards" - meaning from the sea into the pond. I believe there have been photos of it on this site.

What the NWA has done to Treasure Beach appears to be criminal. They took a problem and made it into a catastrophe. In addition, it is disgustingly ugly.

It is sad the NWA chose not to listen to the people of Treasure Beach and seem to hold themselves above the law.

The last thing we want to hear is there is insufficient money to rectify what they have done to TB.

Hurricane season starts in 10 days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By What Were They Thinking? on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 03:55 pm: Edit Post

How could the NWA have done what they did without the proper permits and licenses?

How could NEPA have taken no action?

Who will take responsibility for what has been done to Treasure Beach in the name of progress?

Who will rectify what has happened, and how quickly will this occur?

Who will compensate those who have been damaged through these illegal actions?

How is it possible no one in Treasure Beach ever questioned the legality of what was happening?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bowl on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 12:52 pm: Edit Post

A lot of land that the canal was escavated through
and making the lot useless. With the owner of said lot living abroad I was given power of attorney to conduct the necessary agreement. This lot is neighbor to the Mar Blue Hotel. I was forced to accept what was offered by NWA. which at the price of land in the area to my estimate is less than half the value. To this day I have not been paid not even one dollar for the land. This land was not not sale. I even ask for a relocation and was told that because there was no building on the land they don't relocate. It was the owners dream to build a house beside the beach. Now we will be unable to find and buy a piece of land even three times the money offered.If and when they decide to pay.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Unfair on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 06:31 am: Edit Post

I recall there was a delay in the building of the canal because there needed to be clear access to the sea and the canal had to go through the piece of land adjacent to Marblue. Many people were blaming the delay on Marblue. Based on what Bowl reports, this was an untrue and unfair accusation. Here in the US the government can also "take" land needed for some planned projects such as a highway, and there can be a court fight if the money offered is not fair. Sadly, this type of court action often costs the landowner more than the extra money they are entitled to for their land, so the government ends up "winning" in the long run. However, I have never heard of the government not paying for the land. It seems the landowner would now be entitled to additional compensation based upon the time the money has remained unpaid.

I stayed at Marblue. It is a lovely place with much attention paid to artistic detail. I cannot imagine how annoyed - perhaps angry - its owners might feel each time they see that awful canal right along side of their lovely hotel. I am sure they did not count on the canal when they bought their land and invested so much in their property.

This entire matter has hurt so many people in so many different ways.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Color Me Disgusted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 06:02 pm: Edit Post

There must be an apt punishment for all those who committed these illegal acts. Saying I am sorry or I did not know or that person is no longer with us will not be sufficient.

This makes Scandals Whiehouse look tame by comparision.

This situation stinks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By axel on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 09:56 am: Edit Post

Dear all,come and see what they are doing now-NWA is putting in a dirty Marl road,dusty when dry,soggy when wet.Thank you,what,s next?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By live there on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 04:39 pm: Edit Post

The great pond in Treasure beach has two extremes
1 ) No water in the pond ....When the pond is dried
salt and sand are carried by the wind destroying everything
that is made of metal in houses from calabash bay to Billi's bay
tons of sand dump on the road making it impassable to use

2 ) Too much water and the place is flooded
property and livestock lost

I think the canal is a good thing, What the canal needs is a flood gate
open it when there is too much water keep it at a certain level

put water in when it is too low using the canal and a pump


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MICE on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 03:30 pm: Edit Post

Why closed the gate after horse went out, anyone who live in Treasure Beach know that Great Pond is lower than the sea ,and anyway they did not need that big hole in the ground all they had to do was a couple of (calbutt)those big pipe if they could get the water to flow to the sea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Disgusted II on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 01:10 pm: Edit Post

Sorry - I made a mistake - it is $50US million over budget NOT $5US million.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Any Reporters With Cameras on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 01:25 pm: Edit Post

With all the reporters in TB this weekend for Calabash, it would be great if some of them took pictures for their Jamaican audiences. It would not hurt the cause of getting this mess repaired, perhaps by embarrassing the various government entities that allowed the canal to proceed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 10:17 am: Edit Post

I understand you guys anger and agree with you on the negative impact of the canal, but you must have known that this is how things operate in Jamaica before you decided to buy property and relocate there.
I was one that originally wanted to purchase property and live in Jamaica, but after a few years (plus 20 now) of visiting and knowing Jamaican friends and seeing how things operate in Jamaica, I have decided that when I retire in a few years, it would just be best to rent a property for six months during the winter and not be bother with the corruption and inefficient ways of the goverment and its agencies.
I love the people of Jamaica and its culture, but I would never invest money in any property are business there !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By foreigner on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 10:12 am: Edit Post

Mike, There is corruption all over the world, some is more blatant, some is more under cover..........and because of the size of the island things are more obvious......so don't "Knack us like dat mon" one love.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Horse Sense on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 02:04 pm: Edit Post

Mice is dead on the cheese, so to speak. :-D As are others posting in this thread.

If indeed the aim was to be able to drain the pond, a pipe or pipes just large enough to accommodate the anticipated, engineer-calculated maximum water flow could have been installed, and then buried - with gates to let water out, or in, as a given situation calls for. And they could have been be buried. But this assumes that the digging of the canal was ever reasonably justified from the getgo.

As it stands, it's hard to even put a name on the big long hole in Great Bay. Is it a ditch? Not what we think of as garden variety ditches, which we see along roads on either side, to carry away runoff. It has more the scale of a cellar for an underground bunker. Or a giant root cellar for food storage for the Apocalypse.

Jesting aside, this is an extremely interesting matter, on so many levels. We can welcome Diana McCauley and her colleages at JET for their solid efforts in outlining how the "canal" came about, and exactly what agencies are to be held accountable for the mess.

Others above make good points. For instance, is Great Pedro Pond indeed BELOW sea level? From certain vantage points it does appear to be so In which case, it seems legitimate to ask, "What about GRAVITY?" What is the slope gradient from the pond from the pond to where it lets out, or is supposed to let out, into the sea? Did the fellows on those Giant Tonka toys that dug the canal figurethat since the pond is lower than the sea, they would have to build a trench deep enough to get DOWN to sea level.

If I am all wet on this, I would be most appreciative to get the real story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By T. on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 10:55 am: Edit Post

MikeyMike-- Clearly your comment is directed at foreigners who come to live in TB, but it comes off as incredibly cavalier, seems to address anyone who lives in TB. It's easy for someone who is not Jamaican to say how it doesn't make sense to build a home there. Many of the people who are writing on this thread (on this forum) are, of course, Jamaican. Not so easy for them to dismiss the idea of living in TB or to choose to rent a house for six months.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ????? on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 03:04 pm: Edit Post

Wow MikeyMike, are you trying to be rude or was it accidental? You seem to imply that anyone who spent their hard earned money to move to Jamaica is way less intelligent than you because YOU KNOW how things work in Jamaica and THEY DON'T. I would suggest you don't say this kind of stuff to your Jamaican "friends".

For your information, Jamaica is a democracy. The government and its agencies are required to act in a lawful manner, just as they are in the U.S. People might not expect the same services from the government as they receive in the U.S., but they do not and should not have expected any arm of the Jamaican government might come in and dig that vile canal.

Exactly WHAT PART of the Jamaican culture do you love?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sarcast on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 04:13 pm: Edit Post

Hey, MikeyMike!
It would be nice for you to acknowledge that things don't always operate very well in many other countries either. When you dig a bit below the surface in many of the most advanced societies you will find numerous examples of the same problems and worse.

Let me state up front that this is not an excuse for the slackness and corruption that prevails in too many places in Jamaica. That should be condemned too!

My simple point is this: Just reflect on some of the revelations of bureaucratic inefficiency and outright corruption at all levels of government in the United States, Britain, France, Italy etc and Jamaica may not seem that different, afer all; as unfortunate as that might be.

So, how many years has it been now since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans? Do you recall how well the local, state and federal authorities were for that onslaught? You must surely recall with pride the efficiency with which the people of that city were evacuated!

And, as for the temporary housing arrangements; you must be full of admiration for the smooth manner in which FEMA ("Heck of a Job, Brownie!") got those gleaming new trailers into place!

And somebody must surely be telling a great lie on that shining example of Developed World bureaucracy when it comes to reports of sickness related to living in those very trailers!

And how about that nicely restored city... houses all rebuilt and neighbourhoods back to the way things were before Katrina!

You must also be full of admiration for all those statesmen who occupy the corridors of power in Washington and the state assemblies all across that great nation!

What wicked people those journalists are for reporting all those ghost stories about Congressmen being sent to prison for feathering their own nests! Duke Cunningham must be pretty mad at that!

As for that "Bridge to nowhere" in Alaska... well what vicious people!

And over in the UK where that Parliamentary Expenses Scandal is breaking... well now, I suppose someone will pay for telling such lies about those poor MPs.


I'm not prepared to accept that these other contries are models of order and bureauctatic efficiency. To a greater or lesser degree there are problems in all of them.

I wish things were better in Jamaica, and all Jamaicans should always try, in their own small way, to assist in improving the situation. I also wish to acknowledge the efforts of many non-Jamaicans (including numerous Americans) to this difficult task of improvement.

My only plea is for balance in how Jamaica is viewed and characterised.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By najor semaj on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 10:59 am: Edit Post

Is it possible for anyone to post some pictures of the canal. I have not seen the canal and i know there are more of us who wouldn't mind seeing what we are talking about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Annoyed on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 06:38 am: Edit Post

MikeyMike, I have been following your posts for some time now. With all due respect, I would like you to know I find many of them to be somewhat insulting. That may not be your intention, but that is the way I interpret them.

In what perfect, efficient, and non-corrupt place do you live? If it is so perfect, why would you even want to vacation in Treasure Beach much less think of eventually spending half your time there?

Why would you make the totally mistaken assumption the majority of people living in Treasure Beach or having businesses there should have known better before they relocated and invested money there? Most of the people in Treasure Beach are FROM there and are doing their best to support their families and live in harmony.

You imply the people who have chosen to relocate to Treasure Beach or have invested money in Treasure Beach are foolish and should have known better. That is insulting.

People understand the phones don't always work, the roads are far from perfect, and the water supply is uncertain. But no one could have known Jamaican government entities would do something as illegal as the canal.

What do YOU personally do to improve things in Treasure Beach? Do you attend community meetings? Do you volunteer in the schools? Do you contribute to BREDS? Do you contribute to the Scholarship Fund? Or do you merely come down for your vacation, have a good time, and leave - leaving the problems to those who live or invest there?

All I seem to recall from your prior postings are things like you telling people not to tip van drivers and other things like that which make you sound like less than a gracious and generous person.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Facts please on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 07:32 am: Edit Post

"But no one could have known Jamaican government entities would do something as illegal as the canal."
We are all getting carried away here or did I miss something. What is illegal about the canal? Maybe the design was flawed but surely there must have been engineering work done before the hole was dug? Like I said before, maybe there was a post i did not read, if so, please enlighten me.
The blame game is going on and there is a lot of jostling for position but if we stick to the facts it would be a big help. Who designed the canal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:31 am: Edit Post

Hey Rohan I will do my best to post some updated photos of the canal tomorrow.

Thank you so much Diana for taking an interest in our community of Treasure Beach. I, for one, very much appreciate and respect your opinion.

I relocated to Treasure Beach 16 years ago. Was it the smartest move I ever made? If you think in a purely financial vein then no. But my father always said, "I may not be the wealthiest man in the world but I sure feel like I am the richest." My quality of life has absolutely been enriched since I've moved to what I have now come to refer to as home. I do not come here for a few weeks a year. I live here year round and run a business based in this community. I know there is corruption within the "system". What country doesn't have that? Believe me, it ain't always easy. As a matter of fact each day comes with new challenges, some very difficult ones which odds are I would not have been faced with if I had stayed living in America. But I will say without hesitation I am proud to be a member of the Treasure Beach community and I am proud to be a Jamaican and am very very happy with my decision to move here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bowl on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 09:21 pm: Edit Post

Web Master,

Dear Sir, Madam. MikeyMike's comment should never have been posted. I have written milder comments and they were not posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Illegal on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:03 am: Edit Post

Permits are licenses were not obtained. THAT is what is illegal.

My guess is the work that has been done to-date has also caused environmental damage to the area.
In terms of the design, I would doubt the engineer in charge would like to post his photograph here or answer questions at a community meeting. If he is not already highly embarrassed, he should come take a look at what he has done. Unfortunately in Jamaica, as in America, these types of workers are normally immune to the consequences of their less than professional work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:18 am: Edit Post

To Facts please: The canal is illegal because it did not obtain the required permits or licenses. Under our laws, it required both a beach license and an environmental permit and it did not obtain either.

I reiterate my earlier comment about democracy - it is only as good as the engagement of its citizens. The GOJ "got away with" the construction of a badly thought out and potentially harmful project because we the people let them.

I am working on solutions, in the context of the what is already in the ground. I have sought the advice of coastal engineers, drainage experts and pond ecologists. Whether the advice we get will be followed remains to be seen.

I was in TB on Thurs and Fri and had a look at the canal. There is only a small piece of land in the way of connection of the canal from land to sea. Bulldozers are already on site and I suspect this connection will be made very shortly. Any villa or hotel down current from the canal should be extremely worried about the impacts on marine water quality. The canal is full of mud and silt and in any decent rain, this will end up in the sea.

The Treasure Beach canal presents an excellent case study of all that is wrong with environmental regulation in Jamaica - a hasty, politically driven response to a flooding crisis, no analysis of reasons for the flooding, no assessment of the environmental assets of the area, inadequate baseline study, flouting of relevant laws by two government agencies, utterly inadequate monitoring of the project, lack of consensus among affected people, lack of organization to act, complacency during the execution of the project with long periods of inaction, panic in the event of approaching storm, hand wringing and finger pointing after a rain event, regularization of illegality by the same two govt agencies, some faulty and badly executed "solution" to a situation that should never have occurred in the first place.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mnken on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 11:28 am: Edit Post

Bowl, you are right on target with that one!
I too have written much milder that were not posted. But I guess "milder" is up to interpretation. In this case the webmaster.
And although I do not always agree, I need to respect their decisions or stop using this site. So I use the site.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:23 am: Edit Post

Sure Mike's post may serve to discourage some from investing here. Sure there are 'shortcuts' in other countries too, some shorter than others!

Mike is giving a form of 'tough love' to us. One Love is not just sugar and spice.

A consultant would charge serious $ to give similar feedback. I suspect that the possibility of being a bearer of bad news would soften any report they submit.

Both the canal dilema and Mikes topic are opportunities to face denials, shortcomings and the other impedements to our collective health and wealth.

Thanks for your attention Diana, I sense that many of us involved with TB are paying attention to both any tough love necessary and the encouragement and information needed to guide sensible actions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nahor Semaj on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:52 pm: Edit Post

MikeyMike is writing about just how he feels. The pressure of living or investing in a place like Jamaica is not worth it, that is my interpretation of Mike's posting. We don't need to go at Mike for expressing himself.

For those of us that choose to invest and make it our home we have our reasons, reasons so compelling that i would like to think that if we had to choose again we would do it all over and choose to invest and live in Treasue Beach and Jamaica. It is our investments and daily fight that affords someone with mike's perspective the priviledge to vacation for six months without the burden of the issues we face.

There are some of us who are not priviledge to run from the struggle faced in Treasure Beach or Jamaica on a whole. We are proud to face those head on with a driving force of community unity and an unwaivering desire to be the voice and hands of change, however little. We will not be deterred in our efforts to sustain all that is good in our communities and will not be silent in our demand for change and a better way of life for our children and our communities.

Thank you Mike, for it is in view of your perspective that i am strengthened and encourage that we all can't choose to leave the problem behind, someone must stay behind to fight for the security of our childrens heritage, so problems or not I am so proud to invest and live in Treasure Beach cause the return on investment is not measured in dollars for me, it is measured in a life richly fulfilled in the relationships and friendships of people unlike any other i have ever known.

Peace love and nuff respect to the hardworkers, faithful investors and frontline pioneers of Treasure Beach's quest to maintain its tranquility and simplicity while improving the standard of life for its residents. Big up unnu self! Press forward for better must come. Its cowardly to lose a fight by means of forfeit, so i appreciate all the frontline warriors and behind the scenes low key contributors to the ongoing fight for our little piece of paradise. Wi tek nuff blows but wi still in di ring; unlike the conventional one on one fight this is is a tag team match so don't give up cause you not in this alone and help is aligning itself to defend treasure beach against anything that threatens to to destroy the community we all fell in love with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nahor semaj on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:58 pm: Edit Post

Thank you rebecca, i know u busy so when you can its all good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 08:27 am: Edit Post

First my comments were not directed at the local Jamaicans that live in TB are anywhere else on the island. It was meant for foreigners that invest in property in Jamaica.
My comments are not meant to be "harsh" but I feel that in "fact" they are true. When they are not (such as my comment about no life jackets on the Shallow Bar) then I say I have make a mistake and appoligize for it.
I stand by my last statement about "knowing about how things operate in Jamaica" and if you thing that I am wrong about this then you must not know Jamaica as I do. I also know that this is part of the Jamaican culture. I also know that Jamaica is a "democracy". I am not an idiot.
My question is WHY since it is a democracy and the people pay taxes to the goverment, that the roads do not get fixed, that the justice system does not work effectively, that the police force is not trustworthy, that politicians only care about their personal welfare, that the water and electricity work like it should, etc.
Yes all these problems exist in other countries (US, Engalnd, Canada ) but not anywhere to the extend and continueous basis as in Jamaica. And when these problems do occur in other countries they are quickly corrected, but in Jamaica it continues on the same way ! That makes it part of the culture, and if you want to live and invest in Jamaica then you have to accept the fact that "that is way things are done in Jamaica" !!
I REALLY do LOVE Jamaica (especially TB), but I am not about to sugar coat the "realities" of how things operate there !!!!
And PLEASE do not get me wrong. The greatnest about Jamaica comes from the Jamaican people themselves, not from the goverment and it agencies. Despite the corrupt and inefficient goverment,and all the problems that creates, the Jamaicans still rise above it with a generous heart and a welcoming attitude !! And this is what I love about Jamaica !!!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sarcast on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 01:55 pm: Edit Post

"And when these problems do occur in other countries they are quickly corrected..."

- like in New Orleans, I suppose, MikeyMike!

I don't want to belabour the point, but it is very hard to justify the unjustifiable/ defend the indefensible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grounded on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 03:08 pm: Edit Post

One thing I can agree with MikeyMike about is when you are here you do things like they do them here. This is not an extension of the U.S. - and more people would do well to remember that. I disagree however, that problems are fixed quickly in other countries - Look at the George Bush election fiascos. They were NEVER fixed and look at the havoc wreaked on the world - all from lies and other kinds of nonsense. So that argument does not fly with me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 01:16 pm: Edit Post

I often reflect on how it may have been without the obstacles and inefficiencies.

A dream yes; also a standard to judge, as far as imagination allows, where we are because of these impedements.

We have gained a resilience and a special culture. We have also inherited some attitudes that some define as culture that do not serve us well. I'll not spell them out. Now.

To ignore or deny the corrections we should make, collectively and individually, wastes time, creates conflicts and shortcircuits the possibilities we have. Purchased, inherited or otherwise.

I can see Mike's perspective, what we take for granted as 'runnings' which we can do nothing about, would not be tolerated up North. With exceptions as always. An investor considers the security of their investment, beauty, sun and sea means nothing if location, location, location becomes anxiety, rush and noise. An outside investor also does not understand runnings. There are no textbooks on this. It does have an interesting history, a good thesis for someone.

I am inspired by those that have made their new homes in Ja and of course by those that have overcome so much and have stayed through thick and thin.

I would not be ready to work my peice of TB land if I did not feel secure in the common sense and hospitality of my neighbours and the growing community understanding of the steps that have to be taken to secure our corner and make it sweeter.

Looking forward to my doing more and talking less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 10:03 am: Edit Post

I was born, raised, and still live in New Orleans. Yes you are right in stating that the U.S. goverment was slow and unresponsive to the needs of the people immediately after the storm.
Any goverment response to a natural diaster is not the point I am making.
The point I am making is how things operate on a daily basis concerning people investments in Jamaica. You will have to admit that when a person (even a foriegner) invests in the U.S. that they can feel assured that their rights and investments are protected by the goverment, and that the process of investing will not be tied up by wasteful waiting and delays from an inefficient agency of the goverment. The fact that in Jamaica a person property can be confiscated by the goverment and that person is not immediately compensated, will not occur in the U.S. Also the fact that an agency (let alone two agencies) of the goverment would go ahead with a project (such as the canal) without the proper permits (both legal and enviromental) would also not occur.
The last paragraph of JETS response on May 24th states it clearly and supports my OPINION of how things operate in Jamaica !!
Even Rebecca states that "in a pure financial vein" her move was not worth it !!
I am one that simply will not invest the time nor money in a place that I cannot trust to protect my rights as an investor, nor in a place that "operates" as Jamaica does. It makes more sense for "me" to simply rent for six months and avoid all the headaches and hassles that investing in Jamaica presents. Anyone (Jamaican are non-Jamaican) that have spent alot of time in Jamaica knows what I mean when stating " that is just how things operate in Jamaica". So you accept it are not, deal with it are not, because it will not change !
I am not trying to be mean nor insulting in any manner. I am just stating the obvious !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 01:12 pm: Edit Post

I've posted updated canal photos in the Photo Gallery.

You can view them here or by the link in the Photo Gallery.

And just to be clear MikeyMike my statement was, "Was it the smartest move I ever made? If you think in a purely financial vein then no."

Was my move worth it to me? ABSOLUTELY!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TB.Net on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 03:26 pm: Edit Post

A recent article written by Diana McCaulay.

http://snailwriter.blogspot.com/2009/05/losing-our-treasures.html

Saturday, May 30, 2009
Losing Our Treasures

Imagine a coastal area on a Caribbean island - a patchwork of fresh and brackish ponds that wax and wane with wet and dry seasons. Despite the ponds, the landscape is more dry than wet – scratchy, scrubby and scorched. Big trees are lignum vitae and thatch palm. The land around the ponds is filled with multitudes of birds - waterbirds, resident birds and migrants. The beach sand is dark grey, the coast heaped with old sand dunes, the sea dark blue, rough and dangerous. There are no large hotels, no red and white security barriers, no highways. Getting here takes commitment. This is Treasure Beach, on Jamaica’s south coast.

The place has its aficionados – returning residents, farmers, villa owners, boutique hotel operators, rich folks from Mandeville, several fishing beaches, and many small Jamaican establishments, where anyone can walk in and buy a meal cooked to order. Goats are the main traffic holdup. New buildings are overlarge, garish and ugly; old ones are earth coloured, unobtrusive in the landscape.

Some 25 years ago, an area called Great Bay, close to the Great Pedro Pond, was subdivided for housing. It must have been during a dry period and no one considered the extent of the pond in periods of heavy rain. Nor did the planners suggest elevated buildings in the manner of old time Jamaica. No, we must have new things, modern things, regardless of the predictable antics of natural features like coastal ponds on a tropical island smack in the hurricane belt.

In 2005, two hurricanes drenched Treasure Beach. The Great Pedro Pond overflowed its banks and flooded the people in the Great Bay houses, old and new. Meetings of angry residents were held and the cry went up – Do Something Now! In early 2006, a politician sprang into unaccustomed action, probably damaging several muscles atrophied from lack of use. Without benefit of plan, thought, permit or environmental study, the National Works Agency carved a channel from pondside almost to the sea.

Apart from those flooded out who were happy, the residents sadly contemplated the ugly scar across the landscape – a giant gully. The pesky environmentalists (I was one) raised an alarm – pointed out the risks of marine contamination from the pond, not to mention the risks to the pond itself and therefore to the wildlife that depended on it. The construction was illegal, the environmentalists said, as drainage projects to the sea required both an environmental permit and a beach license and neither had been issued. More public meetings were held and extravagant promises of box culverts and weirs were made by the National Works Agency. Then the flurry of government action spent itself – the hurricane season was, after all, over.

The Treasure Beach gully slept in the sun through the rest of 2006, 2007 and part of 2008. Its banks began to collapse. Scrub colonized the silty floor. Every now and then someone from Treasure Beach would object to its unfinished state. A few men would show up, a bit of form work would be done, there would be some digging. The environmental regulatory agency, the National Environment and Planning Agency, started a file - and filed it.

Early in 2009, the bulldozers returned. Culverts with two bridges were completed, along with a concreted channel into the sea. Only a small piece of land remained unbulldozed; only a small piece of land kept the pond from being joined to the sea.

As I write, that piece of land will probably fall within a week and a semi permanent connection from pond to sea and sea to pond will be established. There has been no inventory of the birds, the turtles, the crocodiles, the rare pancake lotus of the Great Pedro Pond. There has been no detailed study of the hydrology, the geology, the historical extent of the pond. Tests to establish the water quality in the pond were done once in the dry season only. No alternative solution to alleviate infrequent flooding has been considered – including the restoration of old drainage channels, reportedly blocked by the filling of sink holes. The risk to property and human life from storm surge – a la Hurricane Katrina – has been ignored. And the matter of aesthetics is certainly not the National Works Agency’s purview, nor apparently, the concern of the National Environment and Planning Agency.

I left Treasure Beach last week and drove to Jamaica’s north coast, where rivers are “trained,” drainage gullies are ubiquitous, rainwater sheets off highways and parking lots and the roofs of massive hotels into the Caribbean Sea. And there was the result – the land bleeding into the sea, brown plumes of silt and poorly treated sewage and plastic bottles blooming in what used to be clear, turquoise water. From the Santa Cruz Mountains looking down at the Pedro Plains and Treasure Beach as I left, the south coast sea still held its clean indigo colour.

Not for long, though, I thought. Not for long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By What a shame on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:02 pm: Edit Post

You have to admit though Rebecca that your move to Jamaica has not been the easiest and that you have had to wait a long time to gain your residency and you have hit a lot of Jamaican 'red tape'!

I, personally am getting fed up of being 'questioned' to the extent of being interrogated by immigration as to why I keep coming to JA by myself twice a year! They said it was strange that a single woman came to JA on their own!!! Yeah I said but I have been doing it for the last 8 years and have lots of friends here.

I think that Mike is correct and I applaud him for being so honest. I wish it wasnt so but he is right. He obviously loves JA/TB as much as I do - and many others - (hence why would he come so many times and have so many friends who love him).

I have spent thousands on supporting local people and yet recently everytime I come to JA I am made to feel like I am some drug dealer. For real! Does'nt put me off comming though - but resent it.

The canal is ugly and nasty and cannot believe that it was dug, basically illegely, or can I!!!

The whole of JA is desparate for the roads repairing and yet they must have spent millions and millions on that ghastly dual carriageway out of Mo'bay, where is the logic in that?

xxx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Double Shame on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:33 pm: Edit Post

What a Shame,
Jamaicans traveling (frequently or infrequently) to the United States are often subjected to lengthy questions whenever they land at the ports of entry over there. Some are subjected to humiliating invasive body searches for no obvious reason!

And that is if they do get there! Spare a thought for the thousands of Jamaicans who are asked all manner of embarrassing personal questions in the hearing of everyone else at the American embassy in Kingston.

It was bad enough when the visa section of the embassy was operating out of rented premises. I find it hard to accept that in designing its own building the U.S State Department could not have taken account of the importance of privacy to the Jamaicans being interviewed to determine their eligibility for being granted the visa.

Where is the respect? Or, are Jamaicans less than equal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sarcast on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:21 pm: Edit Post

MikeyMike,
Lots of rights - property and others - are frequently violated in the United States as well. I wonder whether all those persons whose properties have been confiscated by the state or federal government would agree that they were immediately compensated and that the basis on which the decisions were made were fair.

As for other rights, perhaps you should ask those Japanese-Americans who were detained during World War II (or their descendants) whether their rights were fully respected by the government.

Come to think of it, you might actually find it more convenient to ask some of your fellow citizens who have been more recent victims of racial or other forms of profiling what they think.
ONE LOVE!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Not a shame on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:53 pm: Edit Post

What a Shame

Don't worry every time I go to the US, your customs and immigration make ME feel like a drug dealing terrorist too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By what do we do? on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 06:45 pm: Edit Post

Despite a "stop order" given to the canal workers days ago, they continued doing what they wanted to do until they were satisfied.

The lawlessness and disrespectful behavior at this level, and spending taxpayers money shamelessly, shows nothing but contempt for those trying their best to do what is most beneficial to the community .

And what does the community do?
Nothing ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karen Kennedy on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 11:07 am: Edit Post

MikeyMike, I was going to post this about two weeks ago, but the Forum went on vacation.

I beg to disagree with you. My husband and I are Americans who invested money in Treasure Beach. We did not relocate there because we had good jobs in the U.S.; we had children who were attending university; and our financial obligations had to be met. We also had elderly/infirm family members and needed to be in fairly close proximity to them. We were not ready to retire, and we could not think of any gainful employment in which we could engage in Treasure Beach.

Even though we did not relocate there, I was annoyed at your remarks; I still am, and that is why I am writing this.

We have lived in the Caribbean—St. Croix in the U.S. Virgin Islands. We selected that because it was an American territory with an American judicial system and required no work permits. St. Croix had the best roads I’ve ever seen on an island (excluding Hawaii), “American” grocery stores, a stable water supply, and many other “amenities.” We literally fled St. Croix because of the unbelievable crime, a totally ineffective police force, and an incredibly corrupt government. The public school system was worthless.

We have traveled all over the Caribbean, and found Jamaica—particularly Treasure Beach—the place we loved most. We invested money there only after many trips and thoughtful consideration. Though, after some 25 years, we still find some government agencies less than effective, and we still encounter confusion with the “rules” (both unwritten and written), we have never regretted scrimping and saving and working 80-hour weeks for years on end to be able to invest in Treasure Beach.

If you think the U.S. government is not corrupt and inefficient, I will not be able to convince you it is. Our corruption and inefficiency here is different than it is in Jamaica, but it still exists—big time. If you think land cannot be taken from property owners in the U.S. for less than what it worth, look at what eminent domain may have done where you live. If you think government agencies in the U.S. make the best decisions for the citizens in an area that needs true assistance, I ask you (as some other poster did) to look at our disgusting and embarrassing response to Katrina. If you think the U.S. is as fair to the average citizen as it is to big corporations, read your newspaper. If you think blacks have the same privileges as whites, you have your head in the clouds.

There is no absolutely perfect place. Part of what I love about where we live is our access to cultural events, universities, museums, and major international airports. Part of what I can’t stand is our almost continual bumper-to-bumper traffic, the lack of true neighborliness, and the incredibly high cost of living.

The “problem” with the canal is that the people of Treasure Beach have never felt particularly empowered and made the mistaken assumption the government was doing something in their best interests. They knew it was ugly, but they never realized it was illegal. They never realized they could actually “fight” the government. Now they understand they have an ally in JET and Diana McCaulay, and they are ready to do something because they understand the law is on their side.

Jamaica was under British rule until 1962. They have been an independent democracy for less than 50 years. Understanding they have rights and privileges is a concept that is almost foreign to many residents. (This is akin to the U.S. about 200 years ago.)

I don’t think I know you, but based upon the various things you have written on this Forum, I do not believe you are an idiot. You do contradict yourself by first saying how you love the culture and then say how the “culture” is one of inefficiency and corruption. And, no matter how you defend yourself, you are insulting.

In turn, I would politely ask you not to imply people who have invested in Jamaica (with or without having relocated) are idiots.

Instead of bashing how things are done in Jamaica—and saying that you know how things are done in Jamaica (which feels like you're implying I and many others don't), I suggest you do something positive for the area you profess to love. Participate in a community meeting. Read up on Jamaican laws, and suggest how people might make lawful changes. Bring some books down for the schools. Bring a laptop down and donate it to a school. Leave a generous tip for the housekeeper where you stay. Tip your van driver, and do it with a smile. Go read a book for an elderly person. Donate to BREDS. Donate to Treasure Beach Foundation.

Be positive, not negative.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:16 pm: Edit Post

Sarcast
Are you denying "how things are done in Jamaica" ?
I think not. You are taking this as a personal insult, which is not my intention AGAIN !!
I do believe that you know EXACTLY what I mean about "HOW THINGS ARE DONE IN JAMAICA"
Lets ask REBECCA where does she think it was easier, more efficient, less corrupt, more protective of her investment, less hassle, better recourse for addressing problems, in the US/CANADA are JAMAICA ?
Of course you can ask this of any foriegner that has invested in Jamaica.
I have a long time J'can friend that lives in MoBay. He moved back from England many years ago. The property he bought in MoBay had a drainage problem that was the responsibility of the Jamaican government to repair. He did the repairs himself at his own expense, because as he stated that if he had to wait on the goverment agency to fix it, he would not have any property left.
You know what I mean !!! That is how things RUN in Jamaica !!!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:20 pm: Edit Post

By the way.
I will no longer "beat this dead horse"
NUF SAID !!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 04:17 pm: Edit Post

As you might know, NEPA has finally served an enforcement notice on the NWA for the illegally constructed drainage canal. I thought people in Treasure Beach, Great Bay and environs might like to know what the enforcement notice says - this is a summary, but contains the main points:
(1) Remove any solid concrete paving along the floor of the canal along Phase II and Phase III of the canal within seven days.
(2) Install gabion mattresses or equivalent structures on the floor of the canal along Phase II and III to prevent further erosion of the floor of the canal within 14 days.
(3) Install sediment traps at the mouth of the canal and at the start of the canal to prevent the run off of solid waste into the marine environment within 14 days.
(4) Install gabion baskets on and landscape the canal with Vetiveria (khus khus) grass or similar vegetation to prevent further erosion along the banks of the canal and to prevent the movement of sedimentation (sic) into the marine environment within 14 days.
(5) Backfill the constructed canal walls with appropriate fill within 14 days.
(6) Immediately remove all solid waste in the canal and dispose at a site approved by the National Solid Waste Management Authority.
(7) Install protective barriers of at least five feet in height from the top of the drain to prevent persons and animals from accessing the drain within seven days.
(8) Install warning signs along the banks of the canal to inform and warn persons of the presence of an open canal within seven days.
(9) Conduct detailed water quality test (sic) on the water of the pond that will be expected to overflow into the canal during rainfall events.

There is no mention of weirs or gates for control of storm surge. I also question whether sediment traps will work - if they do capture sediment, then they will also trap water very quickly.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Concerned Onlooker on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 05:38 pm: Edit Post

Bless you, Miss McCawlay, and whoever else may have done something to get the NWA to attempt to rectify the disgusting mess they created.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 11:05 pm: Edit Post

LMAO. If they can accomplish this in 7 - 14 days I will personally drink all the water in that canal. After all it took them three years to build a bridge. I assume today was day 1...no sign of work as far as I could see and I drive past it 10 times a day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 07:27 am: Edit Post

I too will join others in the drinking of the canal water if these conditions are complied with. What is going to be interesting is what NEPA will do when they are not.

I know some folks in Treasure Beach will welcome this enforcement notice, but I want to make it clear, that I think what NEPA is requiring is a mistake - these measures, if followed, will make the canal a permanent feature. There is no mention of anything to stop flooding from sea. The water quality tests are inadequate. Were there to be flooding from sea, this stands a good chance of contaminating the aquifer (ground water) with salt water. JET is continuing to find out (a) what has been spent so far on the canal and (b) what the actual blueprint drawings say - it is difficult to draw conclusions from the documents we have been given, as they lack sufficient technical detail. Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 09:47 am: Edit Post

OK I know I said that I was not going to say anything else about this topic but I feel I must make a last statement concerning what Karwen has said.
Why would you assume that I (after over 25 years of visiting Jamaica) have not don't anything POSITIVE for the people.
I arranged and shipped food supplies after hurricane Gilbert. I have donated books to the Sandy Banks Primary School. Donated clothes (on several ocaasions) to churches and the TB Womens Center, assisted a close friend in obtaining his own vehicle from the U.S. to operate as a taxi, ALWAYS tip the maids where ever I stay, have given monetary assistance to many Jamaicans that I did not know personally, donated money to help save Winnifred Beach in Port Antonio from developement, encouraged a women friend to give a talk to J'can women on menipause at the Womens TB Center, always stay at local guesthouses and eat at local cafes just to help the likkle J'cans. SO I am not the NEGATIVE person you think that I am !!
Also " after 25 years" you still encounter some goverment agencies less then effective, are still unclear about the rules (written and unwritten) is the exact point I am making. Can you say the same thing about the U.S./Canada ?
Once gain, I do think you really understand what I mean by saying "That is how things operate in Jamaica"
ONE LOVE !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Done nuh man! on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 11:56 am: Edit Post

MikeyMike...can u settle this outside the classroom please. This topic is about the canal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 08:17 pm: Edit Post

Day 2...still nothing. Sorry, my mistake, someone brought in a ladder and left it there. Progress is being made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Looking for Answers on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 07:27 am: Edit Post

From what I am gathering, not much is happening in the way of remedial work on the canal as ordered by NEPA against the NWA.

Also it sounds as if EVEN if NWA complies with NEPA's orders, this will not necessarily be an effective solution.

My questions for Miss McCawlay:

+ What sanctions/punishments are there for NWA if they do not do the work - and do it within the time specified?

+ What happens if NWA does the work, either within the appointed time or soon thereafter? How bad could flooding, etc. be in case of a major storm?

+ Is there no way to get that canal out of TB and replace it with a more intelligent solution, one that will work better and also not be such an eyesore?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 10:12 am: Edit Post

To Looking for Answers:

If NWA does not comply with the enforcement notice, NEPA can prosecute them. The fine is J$50,000. To the best of my knowledge, prosecution has never been done against a government agency. There have been a few enforcement notices against govt agencies in the past, but I think they have mostly been settled out of court.

I don't know how bad the flooding could be, nor how serious the impacts to the pond or to the marine environment. This is the point of doing proper due diligence beforehand - to try and assess and avoid such risks.

Has the canal been completed from pond to sea? If it has not, the situation now is the worst of all possible worlds. None of the flooding risks have been alleviated, the aesthetic impacts are huge, the risks to the environment are high and so on. If the canal is made permanent, as required by NEPA's notice, then the questions are - what design? Height and slope? Storm gates or none? Covered or not? What do storm surge models for the south coast say? And so on.

In my opinion, yes, there is still the option to abandon the canal as built, regrade and revegetate the land (most of it), and do the proper due diligence to arrive at a better drainage solution. But it does not look as if the GOJ is heading in that direction. And will the people of Great Bay and surrounding areas be happy to have the canal as is through another hurricane season? Probably not, I suspect.

This is why things must be approached carefully, proper expertise must be sought, the laws must be complied with, and citizens must be engaged AT THE OUTSET of such projects - not after the concrete has been put in the ground.

One thing I have learned in 18 years is this: concrete NEVER comes out. So be most careful before you put it in...because it is gonna be with you forever.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Looking for Answers on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 11:15 am: Edit Post

Wow -- in U.S., that J$50,000 is all of $532.69. What a pittance for what was done. Now, if that were a DAILY fine, or if it could be levied against individuals instead of a governmental body, that might have some clout. This whole situation makes me ill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 03:57 pm: Edit Post

We've had several (non-approved) messages with the asking that the conversation currently between MikeyMike and others could be taken to a different thread or conducted via email. It will allow this thread to be used for its original purpose of discussing the canal.

We agree with this and ask that the appropriate parties take the conversation elsewhere


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Work Together on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 10:25 am: Edit Post

I totally agree. This string is about the canal. The matter is urgent and important. We cannot lose sight of our goal of having the situation fixed. I do not care to hear anyone say this is how things are done in Jamaica. This is NOT how things should be done in Treasure Beach.

It is up to all of us to do what we can to fix the situation AND be sure NOTHING like this is ever allowed to happen in Treasure Beach again. If we stand by and do not protest, we will have no one to blame except ourselves.

I urge everyone to attend the JET meetings next Friday evening and all day Saturday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stop and Think PLEASE on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 06:50 pm: Edit Post

Thank you to Work Together.

While I know the canal is the most important thing we have to face today, I urge all people concerned about Treasure Beach to not lose sight of the fact that we allowed this horrible canal to be constructed. I admit I was as ignorant of the laws as about everyone else except the people from JET. If I had known, I would have stood in front of a bulldozer exactly like that brave young man stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen Square 20 years ago.

I am saying this because in addition to the awful problems we now face because of the canal, we must not forget to look at what will happen with the Sports Park as objectively as possible. I do not want to turn this string into talk about other things than the canal, but I want us all to remember that we need to look at anything of this magnitude - the canal and the Sports Park and whatever may happen next - VERY carefully. It is distressing to see things in a negative light, but we must know if we do not take the time to carefully examine what is happening in our own community and ask for all the answers BEFORE something happens, we will have no one to blame except ourselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Questions on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 08:30 am: Edit Post

I think what "Stop and Think PLEASE" has said is very important. It is hard to think about planning and the future but if the residents of TB don't the community will be a big ugly mess. The canal is a contribution to that, the Police Academy is a question on the horizon (in terms of what it will do the to vibe of the community) and then we have the "sports park". Has all the diligence been done, all the environmental considerations made, all the permits applied for, have the community's concerns been listened to? Do we know how many jobs it will generate? Do we know who will really benefit from this project? Do we know the actual cost to the community?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 02:39 pm: Edit Post

Day 5. No work on canal. Getting thirsty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stop Hurting TB on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 02:13 pm: Edit Post

Questions, no we don't know the answers to the questions you ask about the Sports Park. People have raised all sorts of concerns from environmental to safety. When we ask a question, we either do not receive an answer or we receive a partial answer that seems to be saying "trust us." When there is a meeting, the minutes of that meeting are not made public on this Forum or they appear to be incomplete. I am not saying BREDS is not to be trusted. On the other hand, I do not know why they are being allowed the freedom to do exactly what they want on that piece of leased property without such bodies as both NEPA and JET giving a written opinion BEFORE any construction commences. We know from the canal experience that once something is built or partially built, the community is between a rock and a hard place.

I am not minimizing the damage the canal has done to TB, especially the Old Wharf and Great Pond areas, but the Sports Park has the potential to do damage to ALL of TB.

Maybe Diana from JET could take the time to inspect the area for the Sports Park as well as our roads, ingress and egress to the Park, and so forth when she is in TB this weekend. If nothing else, I would appreciate seeing a preliminary report from her.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Suspicious on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 05:38 pm: Edit Post

SO correct, Stop Hurting TB. Until this canal thing I was much less suspicious about the sports park. I now feel I have to be suspicious about all this kind of stuff that happens in Treasure Beach. Even if the NWA gets fined, we will still have an eyesore that is disgusting. We will still have no guarantee the canal will work as it's supposed to. All the people who have been flooded out of their homes will not get compensated for their inconvenience and actual physical losses. I for one want to know the sports park will not harm Treasure Beach. I want to be sure it will not bring more traffic in than we can handle. I want to know it will not bring undesirable people into our community. I want to be positive it will not harm the environment. If I had the power, I would demand a written guarantee, but I know that will never happen. Without that, I respectfully request Miss McCawlay look things over and give us her honest opinions. If they are positive, then I will support the sports park. If they are negative, I will do what I can to prevent it from happening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stop and Think PLEASE on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 06:29 am: Edit Post

Miss McCawlay, are you willing to provide your objective assessment of what is being planned with the Sports Park and the possible ramifications on TB?

We need someone with your credentials to do so, and we need this done ASAP.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Not so trusting on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 06:39 pm: Edit Post

TRUST US. Right ...

I'm getting to the point I may not trust my own family.

How awful to feel like this.

I want PROOF from BREDS, not unenforceable promises.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 08:01 am: Edit Post

Yes, I would be prepared to look at the sports park (and any other project) and express a view. But I wanted to have the meeting in Treasure Beach first - because I wanted to hear what the concerns and priorities of the people there are.

The sports park is part of a much bigger issue - what really do we want for the entire area in the short and long term and that's what we have to engage with.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Need Help in TB on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 08:31 am: Edit Post

I would trust the assessment of JET on the sports park.

If JET finds problems, would this mean BREDS would have to change their plans before building things? Or could BREDS merely proceed as they wished?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 03:18 pm: Edit Post

From the Observer. (I will have died of thirst for sure by the time this gets going)

http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=9769


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeannie on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 02:49 pm: Edit Post

http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=9769

Article about the canal in the gleaner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richie M on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 09:28 pm: Edit Post

Any assesment of growth in the area must first address the disposal of waste matter. We cannot continue to use the sea as the sink hole for sewage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gross and Nasty on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 07:33 am: Edit Post

I would suggest the system at the old Tranquility Bay facility (now to become the police training facility) be looked at. I used to see all sorts of things that appeared to be coming from their sewage system dumping into the sea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Winston on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 08:29 am: Edit Post

From all I read here - especially what Diana McCauley has written - it seems that there is no plan to RETHINK the whole disastrous canal, but a non-plan to forge ahead and "complete" it. So, there will be a "completed" disaster, rather than a halt brought to the whole project, and a total re-thinking of the thing. Heck, let's just compound the disaster by the all-important "finishing" of the thing. Surely there is in all of Jamaica a qualified civil engineer that will get on over there to assess the mess and see what ought to be done?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 11:50 am: Edit Post

JET has written to NEPA and requested an evaluation of the sewage treatment systems at Tranquility Bay. We have also written about the large scale land clearing and burning near there - this could need an environmental permit, depending on the size of the land.

But please, everybody, if you do not want the canal to just be completed as is, please, write to the press, your MP, NEPA, whoever you have influence with, otherwise that is what WILL happen...

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By no name on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 06:06 pm: Edit Post

WHAT A MESS.IF THIS WAS ANYWHERE ELSE WHERE TOURISIM WAS THE MAIN INDUSTRY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED A LONG TIME AGO.
SHAME ON YOU "'THE JAMAICAN GOVERNMENT".
HELP THESE POOR PEOPLE TO GET THIS PROJECT FIXED. IT HAS BEEN FAR OVER DUE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By res on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 10:51 pm: Edit Post

The assessment by a civil engineer, a hydro-engineer – both with intimate knowledge of TB for many years – and by myself, equally familiar with TB and its developments for the past 30 years, is the following:

1. The flooding is man-made. Stormwater has been prevented from reaching the sea. Roads were built or improved without culverts for stormwater evacuation. Houses were built into the Great Pedro Pond, e.g. along the Sandy Bank Road. It seems that some lots of the Old Wharf subdivision are partially situated in the pond.

2. The volume of floodwater as experienced in 2005 does not justify the construction of a Kingston-style massive concrete gully. Obviously, the work was started without previous study of the situation.

3. A concrete gully or canal through a residential and resort area is dangerous, aesthetically unsatisfactory, depreciating real estate and environmentally problematic (it facilitates sea water intrusion inland in case of a storm surge).

The NEPA enforcement notice on NWA makes matters even worse by not addressing any of these issues (see: JET post June 04).

The solution is:

A) The laying of two 3 or 4 foot diameter polyethylene pipes at a level to be determined by professional ecologists. This level should be approximately one foot below the Lignum-vitae-tree-line, which is the historic natural high water mark [the many Parkinsonia trees are a recent foreign invasive species which started growing during dry seasons (low water levels) and should not be taken into consideration].

B) A non-return valve in each line, near the sea. Some of the concrete work already in place can be used to facilitate maintenance shafts for the valves. The hardware is locally available.

C) Fill in the gully/canal. Some of the excavated material is still in the area.

As a result, the dangerous situation is resolved, aesthetics and real estate are restored, and seawater intrusion is prevented.

I agree with Winston (June 10), this is a matter to be addressed by a civil engineer in consultation with ecologists etc. This is also a matter to be decided by the citizens of Greater Treasure Beach (Great Bay to Fort Charles) who will have to say if they want an OPEN KINGSTON-GULLY or a RESTORED LANDSCAPE.

Let’s all go to the Workshop on Saturday. I’ll be there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 07:32 am: Edit Post

Last night I did an interview on Nationwide re the Treasure Beach canal - sorry I did not tell this forum, but I did not know that was going to be the subject of the interview beforeheand. Peter Knight, the new CEO of NEPA, was on with me. Peter's basic point on the canal was that he had to accept the engineering advice of the NWA that the canal was correctly sized and not subject to storm surge. I would like "res" who posted the message about the engineering to send it to me at jamentrust@cwjamaica.com because I would like to pass it on to Peter, anonymously if that is "res's" preference.

Diana at JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Winston on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 08:22 am: Edit Post

Between the two of them, Diana McCauley of JET and res have perfectly summed up what needs doing with that (as res calls it) "OPEN KINGSTON-GULLY."

Be at that meeting. Organize, protest, DEMAND the correct solution.

DEMAND a qualified civil engineer to determine the lay of the land, install the pipes with one-way valves, fill in the monstronsity.

AND, beware of future paving that interferes with the way WATER WANTS TO FLOW.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Prayers on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 02:05 pm: Edit Post

I just hope, pray, wish and dream that the canal is a lesson in what NOT to do and that the community has learned that it can not be complacent with matters like this that can directly affect them, i.e. the Sport Park. Just cuz' de big man say so nah make it so! And who was that that made the canal happen - there had to be a driving force in that matter. The taxpayers of Jamaica deserve to know how so much money came to be spent for nuttin'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wrong Priorities on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 08:35 am: Edit Post

When I think of how much it cost in terms of money to install the vile canal -- the canal that is incomplete and will not do what was intended should it be completed -- and how little the Government of Jamaica is willing to spend on educating its children, I seriously wonder about priorities. Ask the teachers and principals of the schools in the TB area how many students do not even show up for school because they cannot afford a uniform, lunch, school supplies, transportation, and many other things. Ask the people who run Treasure Beach Foundation why they need to raise money year-round to be able to send students to PUBLIC high schools. Ask the Foundation why it is paying the majority of the salary for a teacher at Sandy Bank because the Government decided 58 students were not too many for one teacher.

Something is very wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 11:35 am: Edit Post

Day 8
Parched and getting thirstier by the minute.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By angry visitor on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 10:40 am: Edit Post

CANAL NOT FIXED....AND WILL NEVER BE FIXED.

PLEASE TREASURE BEACH PEOPLE....PLEASE DO NOT LET THEM START ANOTHER PROJECT IN YOUR COMMUNITY BEFORE ONE IS COMPLETED.

LISTEN AND LEARN. CANAL IS A SORE EYE AND SO WILL BE THE SPORTS PARK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nige on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 04:38 am: Edit Post

Anna, yu soon dead if a dem yu wait pon. truly a sorry state of affairs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 11:42 am: Edit Post

I woke up this morning to the sound of rain falling. "How wonderfu" I thought, as we really needed the rain. It has been a lovely rainy Sunday. I call this a farmers rain as it is just right. Hard enough to soak the ground by not hard enough to wash anything away . . . So I thought until I got a phone call about 30 minutes ago. My friend suggested I go and check out the canal and to please bring my camera.

I did. The following is what I saw.

canal1

canal2

Again, this is an easy "normal" rain. This is by no means a hurricane style rain storm. And this is the run-off starting just from Seaside Villa going down to the beach. This is not massive flood waters coming down the canal from Great Pond and passing through the rest of the canal which is all mud. As I was standing there in less than 2 minutes time I watched large parts of the mud walled canal caving in over and over again.

I will soon be posting my comments on the very informative JET workshop yesterday. We learned so much and I thank JET for taking the time to educate us. But one thing I did learn yesterday was we have a very very long battle ahead of us in working with the government to change up this current situation.

What do we do in the meantime?

You can view more photos here or by the link in the Photo Gallery


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nateA on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 01:34 pm: Edit Post

Rebecca:

You are doing a great job documenting the disastrous consequences of the disastrous mud trench. Please keep up on it. Thanks on behalf of all who care about this thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 05:24 pm: Edit Post

Living history cannot be denied, here it is in the public domain....forever. Pity that it costs so much destruction before we start to wake up.

Where does the buck stop?

And don't tell me Mr Golding. We leave Kindergarden long time!

This is a version of 'American Idol' but without any scripts and the live image feed is starting to come through.

Lets see if the stars can give the awaited surprise performance and redeem themselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By res on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 03:07 pm: Edit Post

I share Rebecca’s feeling of being overwhelmed by all the problems TB is faced with. But these problems are all man-made, and most (not all) are created within the community; the solutions can and must therefore be worked out within the community, with advice and help from outside. The weekend with JET and a number of active community members has shown the way forward. I’ll comment on it on that thread.

Re the Canal: Rebecca’s pictures of Sunday morning – what a lovely rain that was! – show clearly how delicate the environment of TB is. The brown cloud in the sea does not originate from the canal, but from a quite large land fill (with material from the canal excavation) on the lot of the abandoned building west of Marblue. Large amounts of topsoil were pushed right up to the beach and are now being carried as brown mud into the sea with every rain (see: pictures 8-11).

Another threat to the marine life is the marl brought onto the road in the same location. The rain has transported some of it into the drain (pictures 1-3, 12), and with a heavier downpour, it will also end up in the sea. Marl is more poisonous to marine life (or pond life, if it goes the other way) than topsoil.

These two events (topsoil and marl) could be called occasional up to now, they only happen since this gully-monster was started. The longer we wait with the solution of this problem (the removal of the monster), the more re-occurring and persisting these events will become and will have a permanent and deadly effect on the marine life along the coast to the WEST, i.e. Calabash, Jakes, Frenchman’s, etc.

The solution has been posted already (see: 06/10). The topsoil on the abandoned lot on the beach must be removed as soon as possible and can be used to fill in the gully after the pipes have been laid. We do not need elaborate hydrological research (we don’t have the time nor the money and we already know what the problem with flooding is), but a report by an engineer with the input of a few ecologists familiar with the ecological history of TB. It appears that the NEPA enforcement order is not being executed nor enforced, which is a good thing, allowing for getting the drainpipe solution ready. If NEPA/NWA should become active again in persuing the work on their monster, a stop order needs to be issued.

It was interesting to see at the JET workshop, that nobody was in favour of the canal/gully, but rather of the drainpipe & restored landscape. Our government agencies have shown again and again how wrong they can be, when it comes to environmentally sound solutions. I believe, it is time now for the people of TB to tell the government what they want!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nateA on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 08:09 pm: Edit Post

res:

Hear hear! Make that required engineer a CIVIL engineer!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:48 am: Edit Post

Treasure Beach people - I say again, PLEASE let your voices be heard! Email Peter Knight at Peter.Knight@nepa.gov.jm and the press. Email Basil Fernandez at the Water Resources Authority commander@cwjamaica.com. If you have contacts with your MP or Daryl Vaz at OPM, call them. Urgent action is needed, or we are going to wake up one morning and see the gabion baskets being installed. At this stage, JET has done all it can do. It's now up to the community.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 10:13 am: Edit Post

Thank you JET. I sent an email to both addresses and have already heard back from Mr. Fernandez.

I encourage everyone to write to them as then they will see what a dangerous situation this is and that we, as residents of the community, are very concerned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Heartsick on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 07:33 am: Edit Post

Is ANY progress being made here? I fear the canal will continue to be the disgusting and dangerous thing the government built to "help" TB.

I continue to find it incredible this illegal canal was built in our wonderful Treasure Beach. I think it will cause more problems than if nothing at all was done. It is only a matter of time until something horrible happens because of the canal. I feel we are watching a bomb ready to go off. This very much scares me.

We did not know any better when the government started the canal. But this experience should have taught all of us things are not always going to be as wonderful as people think. I dread to see the consequences of the sports park if it is built as Breds is suggesting. If people do not speak up now, who will get blamed for what could happen as a result?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 08:44 am: Edit Post

With regard to the question "is any progress being made?" I have been constantly calling NEPA (environmental regulators)and the WRA (water resources authority) to try and get the them to meet with the NWA (they built the canal) to find a better solution. The emails people sent did help - some govt people were annoyed, but too bad. I asked them if they would prefer road blocking and they conceded they would not. At least it showed that it was not just JET who was concerned. A meeting was scheduled for yesterday, but had to be postponed until an unspecified time next week. I will tell the forum whenever there is anything to report. Letters to the press ont he canal would also help now.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By PreacherWinston on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 11:52 am: Edit Post

All the inpsiring talk, and the organizing, going on RE: the stadium, could be brought to bear on the canal.

It is hard to be doing battle on two fronts at the same time, though it can be done. How involved are the women of the women's club? Isn't the canal in their immediate neighborhood? I have read posts by the owner of Mar Blue, who doesn't seem exactly pleased by the mess.

Wonder if he might lead the canal charge? In Liberia, the "Market women" managed to stop a war, standing and walking for the cause.

How about the women in the neighborhood of the canal walk, or stand demand a proper fix to the canal debacle? Diana McCauley might be their chosen Joan of Arc.

Diana, perhaps you would be so kind as to post again the email addresses of those people to whom you ask us to email our protests about the canal?

And what are the addresses for the press, please?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Miss P on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 11:43 am: Edit Post

So Diana,
When are you going to weigh in on the Sports Complex issue?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By res on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 10:24 am: Edit Post

To Heartsick: I am afraid no. I wrote to both Knight and Fernandez a few days ago. Here is what I got from Fernandez at NWR (nothing from Knight):

“We are meeting to get some decisions on the completion of
the project. It is also proposed to get some independent
assessment made of the work so far.”

That’s all! Vague? Encouraging? Including opinions from the community? Rather the old top-down approach of central government. Those fishermen, small farmers and (oh gosh!) foreigners and outsiders don’t know what is good for them, so, Kingston has to tell them….

By the way, the proposed solution is also the less expensive one.

We have two catastrophes approaching Treasure Beach, and I can see, the “sports” complex is going to be the bigger one than the gully.

Both problems could be solved if we had the political and administrative infrastructure at community level, i.e. local government, community council and assembly, local planning authority. But we don’t have it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 03:12 pm: Edit Post

I have to laugh..."government people were annoyed". Poor little sweethearts...we really must stop annoying our sensitive civil servants, we don't want to hurt their fragile feelings. Now if they'd just be civil AND serve we'd all be okay.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 09:20 am: Edit Post

RE govt folks being annoyed - you have to understand that WE the people have allowed them to become used to a situation where there is no opposition to what they do or fail to do. We need to change that.

Re the emails for the government folks - Basil Fernandez at commander@cwjamaica.com. Peter Knight at peter.knight@nepa.gov.jm Please DO NOT refer to my remarks about them being annoyed. Just say what you have to say, as briefly and as politely as possible.

For the press - letters@gleanerjm.com and editorial@jamaicaobserver.com (I am pretty sure these are right, but in a rush right now and don't have time to double check...)

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mnken on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 07:18 pm: Edit Post

Diana you are one courageous and smart person.
You are a person with vision. You are caring and compassionate.
Did I mention courageous?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 12:09 pm: Edit Post

Update on the canal - I gather that an independent engineering assessment has been required. I am trying to find out a time frame and also if the engineer will be joined by someone who knows about the environment. I know I will not be considered "independent" but I think someone with concerns for the ecology should also be part of the assessment. I will keep you posted. So you see, this is a small victory to celebrate. Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Winston on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 07:10 pm: Edit Post

Diana: Great on both posts above!

Thanks for those two email addresses, and for the news that an "independent" engineering assessment has been required for a looksee at that canal. We will hope that any such engineer is truly qualified, degreed, certified, vetted, and all the rest. CIVIL engineer best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Diana Admirer on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 07:09 pm: Edit Post

This is an outstanding victory, not a small victory. Thank you Diana for all you have done and all you are continuing to do.

To the people of Treasure Beach: Diana has gone overboard for us today. She deserves a world of thanks. At the same time, please do not expect her to "rescue" us from everything. The Lord helps people who help themselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe & Jean on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 05:12 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for caring, Diana.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By admirer on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 09:47 pm: Edit Post

Thank you Diana. Wish I could be there to help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Worried about Hurricane on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 06:36 am: Edit Post

Is anything happening with fixing this horrible and ugly and potentially dangerous mess?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Please Open Your Eyes on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 04:16 pm: Edit Post

There was a flooding problem with the Great Pedro Pond. The solution was offered by the government, and people didn't question the plan sufficiently until it was too late. The permanent ugliness is a profound embarrassment. The filth and dust are disgusting. The concrete will last much longer than the protests. The "punishment" levied on the agency who did the work without the correct permits is very small and will probably never be paid. The canal is probably here to stay. I wonder if the damage from a heavy rainfall or heaven forbid another hurricane will be worse than if nothing at all had been done in the first place.

I have seen nothing regarding the sewage that is presumably coming from the Tranquility Bay facility. We do know that having the police there is creating traffic and speeding problems to the point where people are calling for sleeping policemen (speed bumps). Their lease goes on for another two years. What sort of mashup will it take to make the police follow their own rules about driving safely?

The good people of TB are now awaiting the magical sports park, the place that will make everything wonderful for all the residents. Instead of questioning what is happening, people are sitting back and assuming all will be fine. The sports park will make the canal and the sewage problems seem like nothing in comparison.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Correct on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 06:09 am: Edit Post

Correct about the sports park having the definite possibility of ending up causing many more problems for the entire community than either the canal or the police training facility.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Diana from JET on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 08:15 am: Edit Post

Hi everyone,
Following the appointment of an independent civil engineer to look at the canal, the relevant government agencies met last week about the drainage canal. There is to be a site meeting and a public meeting in Treasure Beach, but it seems to me that the canal is going to stay. I don't know what, if any, amendments are going to be required. Assuming the engineer is correct about there being negligible storm surge risk and that the pond will only overflow into the sea in extreme storm events, my main concerns remain (a) the undeniable aesthetic impacts and (b)the impact on the marine environment from waste dumped in the canal - as happens all over Jamaica - ending up in the sea. I hope everyone will attend the public meeting when it is scheduled. JET also has asked a coastal engineer to look at the canal - but he is working pro bono and we have not yet got his report.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 12:07 pm: Edit Post

Thanks so much for the update Diana.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Extreme Storm Event on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 02:01 pm: Edit Post

What is an extreme storm event, Diana? Is that a certain category of hurricane, or is it a hurricane coming from the south, or could it even be a tropical storm?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Diana from JET on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 04:46 pm: Edit Post

Dear extreme storm event, could be any of the things you mention which result in a storm surge of more than a certain height. It could be a storm which never hits Jamaica at all, but causes a storm surge. I asked to see the models they used to determine the height of a storm surge, but did not get them. I think they are using the modelling for the north coast, but cannot say this for sure. Anyway, the engineering consensus seems to be the storm surge risk is sufficiently low. All the same, I think that's the same thing they said about the Louisiana coast until Hurricane Katrina ...

Will try to find out more about the actual models and the height of the storm surge but it might take me 30 days.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ANOTHER Canal? on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 03:56 pm: Edit Post

I do not know how to say this strongly enough. If I was in T/B right now, I would rent one of those horrid sound trucks and go up and down every lane until everybody heard me.

There was a problem with flooding. The residents of T/B asked for help. The government came in to give it. The result is one of the most disgusting and useless structures on the South Coast. It is here to stay. It is likely to get worse not better. People have genuinely tried to help us either get rid of the canal or to fix it, but nothing has worked. The canal cannot really be blamed on the residents of T/B because people did not know better. They thought something good was going to happen. By the time they realized how awful it was, it was too late.

It is NOT too late YET to stop the Sports Park from being developed UNTIL we have all the necessary answers. It is not too late to ask for changes if it seems some might be necessary. If people just sit back and do nothing, and the Sports Park turns out to bring more problems than solutions JUST LIKE THE CANAL, then no one can blame anyone except themselves.