Hi there

My name is James Cant and I live in Dunblane in Scotland. I would love to make a TV programme about TB and its Scottish links. My main aim is to increase Scottish people's awareness of the big part that Jamaica played in our history and vice versa. But I also think that the TB story is an amazing one that would interest TV viewers around the world and deserves to be told for that reason alone.

What's most important to me is that the people of Treasure Beach want to be involved in this project. I'm an historian, not a TV personality and I would never force anything on you as a community or as individuals for the sake of a TV show. I promise you that now.

Can anybody help me piece together the story of TB and its Scottish links? There are pretty extensive shipping records over here so if it was possible to narrow down the date when the Scots' ship ran aground then perhaps we could identify the actual vessel and where in Scotland it came from.

Any help that people could offer me would be hugely appreciated.

Kindest regards to you all.

James

I hope you can do that. In my memoir "Near A Far Sea" I referred to the shipwreck story, but couldn't find enough information to pin it down.

Hi James, a list of surnames with Scottish connections would be a good start.

Sutherland for a start.

Any more folks?

James,

You might be interested in this book:

Caribbean-Scottish Relations

http://www.mangoprint.com/cgi-bin/indexer?product=1902294343

Author and retired University of the West Indies professor Velma Pollard lives in Kingston and visits Treasure Beach. Her email is vpollard@kasnet.com

Some say it was a German shipwreck.
The names of the people in the area do not necessarily suggest a German connection, though.
James, perhaps you could contact the National Library of Jamaica (it has a website) and seek further information. It could possibly have some information on the particular shipwreck or other relevant information on the people of the area.

Folks

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement already. All very much appreciated.

A couple of TB locals advised me to contact the National Library in Kingston and I sent them an e-mail today. So I'll wait with interest to see what help and information they may be able to offer.

It had better not have been a German ship! I want the TB people as our long lost cousins!

I'll drop a line to Prof Pollard tomorrow.

Please do feel free to pass me e-mail address to anyone you think may be interested. cantjf@aol.com

Regards to all

James

James:

Best of luck with the project. It sounds very interesting. I'm always amazed at the records that were kept 'back then' and how one can trace through history with them.

Please keep us updated on what you find by posting here.

-TBNet

James the Strachan families in TB are of scotish descendant .We all pronounce it Strawn .I still cherish the times when i would sit and listen my great grand father John Strachan (Strawn) tell the tales of his father,(his father Scotish) when he frist come to TB.His father came has a future seeker.

Denise

"Strawn" is a "very Scottish" pronunciation so he must indeed have been the real deal. Do you have an idea of when your great great grandfather came over to Jamaica? And was Treasure Beach his original destination? And do you per chance know where in Scotland he came from? Many Strachans came from the north east of Scotland.

I'm really chuffed (= "delighted" in case it's not a term used in Jamaica) by how things are progressing. There have been some very interesting facts and potential leads that have emerged from many different people. And folk have been really supportive of the project which is really heartening.

I don't know if I'll be able to track down a particular ship to tie to the story of the shipwrecked Scottish sailors. But what I do think will be possible to achieve is to put forward several examples and models that highlight Scottish migration to Treasure Beach. The example of your family could be a case in point.

Feel free to contact me directly any time at cantjf@aol.com if you have any info you feel I should know about or any questions for me.

Kindest regards

James

James, a list of surnames with TB area code/s from Jamaican telephone directories would include some of Scottish origin.

Best, turey.

hi james. I was wondering if the name moxam or the family of the moxam's have origined from scotland? I know it is an unkown name but my father tells me it is scotish. there are alot of moxams in Treasure beach from what I know.

Thank you James for reponding .i am planning to be in TB for the new year ,so i will go have a talk with mygrand aunt the daugther of the late John Strachan .My great great grand father came to Jamaica to work on plantation .at the time slavery were about abolishing he took some slaves and flee to the hills (Greenfield north of TB)his mate were a slave .my great grand father John Srachan born the same year slavery abolish (1838)so he got to mentian his father surmane (strachan)the children that born in slavery were'nt allow to get the surmane of father ,if the father is a bucky master (boss). James a british ship did run a wreck between Jamaica and Grand Cayman also the ship name the Jamacia sunk between Jamaica and Haiti .

Dear CK

The truth is that I can't tell you off the top of my head. But I've done some searching and found a Mr Moxam in England whose job seems to be investigating family histories. So I've sent him an e-mail to see if he might share some of his family information and professional knowldege for a cousin on the other side of the world! I'll pass on anything I receive ASAP.

Regards

James

Dear Denise

Where do you stay now if not TB? (Apologies for being nosey! And when we say "where do you stay?" it means "where do you live?" ....much to the confusion of our English neighbours!!)

It sounds as though John Strachan's story would merit telling in its own right. I'd be fascinated to hear it in full. As the timing of his arrival coincided with such a huge change in society it's even more interesting.

Thanks also for the tips about the shipwrecks. I know that there would have been many of them around the St Elizabeth coast over the years so it'll be an important challenge to try to identify as many of them as possible.

Kindest regards

James

Just to let you all know that I'll be away in Norway till 7th January so if I don't reply to any messages before then, I'm not being rude...I'm actually trying to learn to ski! I'm afraid my two wee kids will show me up and leave me trailing in their wakes.

All the best

James

What is the correct date of this Treasure Beach link with Scotland? This is the first time I have seen this posted in the last 24 hours forum.
Thank you TB web mistress!
Leonora.

John Strawn as we pronounce it in Jamaica was my grandmother's brother.I will be able to help you out also. James hope you get it all correct.On amy first flight to England in the 70's that when i learned the right spelling which is Strachen.

The Sutherland’s in TB.

Hi James, I am a Sutherland and I have always wanted to know about my background. Unfortunately no one knows anything about us, as to what I heard there was three brothers who came and they all went there separate way, we however came to the conclusion that we have a Scottish background.

It would really be nice if you found out all these information on our background, I for one would be happy.

Amanda

Hi Amanda,
Your surname Sutherland is Scottish for sure.
Ebanks is English.
Parchment is English.
Strachan is Scottish.

I have been doing research for myself and it sure is amazing to read about our ancesters and the many, many hardship they went through to get to our little Island, America,Canada etc,etc.

If you post your email address I would be more than happy to send you your family Coat Of Arms and Crest.
I myself have different blood running through my veins like German/English/Scottish/Spanish and God knows what else and I know I am not alone as a native from Treasure Beach with all these different family trees.

Hi Ce Ce John Strachan is my great grandfather has i can remeber he had a sister my the name of heatyln, I hope i spell her name correctly,she is the mother of aunt Tilly ,aunt Lyn,Mr Early and Mr Vivian (Pa Wheeler),He also had a sister by the name of Edith ,they where brother and sister by mother side .Grand pa John mother came from the Africa.

The white man's happiness cannot be purchased by the black man's misery.

Canada 2, your message is off topic. In the future, please start a new thread rather than posting where it does not belong. We won't approve any off topic message in this thread from this point on.

Hi Denise,

How are you? I just realize who you are. I hope all is well with you and your family. Not to second guess you on anything, but I am a Strachan, and I have always thought that we were German. But you seems to have done a lot of research on our ancestors, so perhaps you are right.

HI PPStrachan-Palmer it was not Denise that did the research on tracing your Family Tree it was Ce Ce. Just a little correction before everyone start asking Denise questions.If you Need some info as you read what I myself read Ce Ce's ancestors were Strachan also.
Denise and Ce Ce seems to be very related.
Strachan was a very uncommon name in Jamaica.

Please note that any off-topic messages posted here (or in any thread for that matter) will be deleted.

-TBNet

LoL,

Thank you! Treasure Beach Native. I really don't think anyone will be asking Denise any questions, and if they do, I am pretty sure Denise would not mind answering any question they might have. I am a Strachan married Palmer, not just my ancestors, also I know Denise very well, if you know her then you would know she is not a person to worry with such nonsense as what you suggest.
P.S. Thank you CeCe,for your research into our ancestral history.

Wow - it's been a busy wee thread since I went away. I was learning to ski in Norway where it was well below zero all the time and we got half a foot of new snow every night - couldn't be much further removed from TB I suspect!

I can assure you that Strachan (prounced "Strawn") is the most Scottish of names. And Strawn is the more old-school pronunciation.

Things are still coming together nicely at this end and I would hope that in the coming weeks or months I'll have enough of a framework with which to approach a TV compnay.

All the best

James

James, should you be able to get a t.v. deal will you be acknowledging those in TB who assisted you and will there be any compensation for them as contributors, etc?

Alice

I will be sure to thank every single person who helps me in this project - in person wherever possible I hope. It's too early to say if a deal will come about and who exactly would be listed in person as the credits roll at the end. But my only aim in all of this has been to tell the story (because it's worth telling and should be known) in such a way that does nothing to damage or diminish TB and its people and hopefully gives its flourishing tourist trade an extra wee help through exposure on TV.

I won't be making a fortune out of this. In fact I probably won't make a single penny. My background is as an historian and I'm just setting out into a career in TV. I'm working with a good production company (filled with decent folk)who will protect me from the sharks in the business but I'm not a household name who can command some grand appearance money!

My hope is that this can put both of us on the map a wee bit. Of course if the $s and £s do roll in then we have the nice challenge of making sure that it's shared out fairly. But I fear that's a challenge we won't have to face!

James

Hi P its nice hearing from you ,i am fine i just got back from TB ,and girl my fourteen days seem like a day .I did some digging into the family background and i know you want to hear this bit ,we also have some family that live in malvern .Grandpa John father had a brother ,they came on a wooden ship ,this ship wreck off the Frenchman shoul .I will be keeping in touch with James ,there is something that i would like to say ,but i will hold this untill i discuss this with James .I do apperciate every one input and i dont want to step on any toe .I would like this to be a open discussion ,if not i will post my email address so we would keep in touch.i do apperciate this topic because most of the youths dont know thier background ,and my thinking has far back to my great great grand parents thier were heroes ,they has place stepping stones for us ,that most of us take for granted .

Good for you Denise, I applaud your determination to find out all you can about your origins.

Please, please keep the information coming Denise. I know I love to read about it as I find it facinating and I am sure many others reading this do as well.

P.S. It was great seeing you even for just a few minutes the other day. Looking forward to a proper catch up the next time you are here!

Hey Denise,

I do wish I could have been there as well, but I am tied up with both work and school. I sort-of knew we had family there, because that is where Aunt Delfie had lived at one point. Keep it coming and you take care.

Dear James,

I have just read the various e-mails above. Maybe I can be of some help.

There is a new book, published in 2007, called Pieces of the Past a Stroll down Jamiaca's Memory Lane, written by Dr. Rebecca Tortello, the niece of one of our Prime Ministers, The Most Hon. Edward Seaga. Her husband is the Curator of the National Gallery in Kingston. To protect her privacy, if you wish to contact me directly, I will ask her if I can you her e-mail address.

For everyone's general information. When the English took Jamaica from the Spanish, many Scottish, Welsh and Irish soldiers came and remained in Jamaica.

In 1655, Scotish prisoners of war were sent to Jamaica. After the Battle of Culloden (the site of the famous Jacobite battle) when Scotland was finally "conquered" by the English, the internet lists 700 as having "disappeared". Most, if not all, came to Jamaica, my own family being one, settling in Southfield St. Elizabeth.

Before slavery one of the most significant Scotish settlements occured in 1700 in St. Elizabeth/Westmoreland after the faliure of the Darien expedition in Panama. It is my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) that Scotland made one dismal attempt at colonization in Panama. Most of them died there and they salvaged one old ship, set the mast,tied the tiller and set sail for "wherever God wished them to go". The old ship landed, I understand, in the Bluefields area of the Parish of Westmoreland, Jamaica. To the south of Westmoreland is the Parish of St. Elizabeth and the towns are Bluefields, Belmont, Whitehouse, Black River and Treasure Beach. Could this be the "shipwreck" you are trying to identify? Of course, I understand their are other shipwrecks off Treasure Beach.

After slavery was abolished, many Scotish people, as well as English, Irish, Welsh, Germans, etc., came to work on the plantations as "indentured workers".

By 1750 the Scots accounted for 1/3 of Jamaica's white population.

I trust this information will be of interest.

Dear William

This is indeed of interest and if you could pass on my e-mail address (cantjf@aol.com) to Dr Tortello I would be very grateful indeed.

I know that after Culloden many Scots arrived in the Caribbean. Some unfortunate souls arrived as POWs, while I understand that some of the high profile Catholic nobles who had led the Jacobite side came too, though more in choice than in chains as the Caribbean offered an ideal place to "lie low" till persecution of the pro-Jacobite nobility had subsided sufficiently to allow them to return home.

Going back to the late 1600s the Darien Scheme was Scotland's big gamble at getting an Empire. We watched with envy at the profits that England got from her imperial territories and decided that we should try to copy her example before France, Spain and England carved up the whole world between them. Sadly we chose our location very badly and occupied an area in Panama that offered only trees, swamps, mozzies and disease. The huge loss of finance and confidence that ensued was a major factor in Scotland accepting the loss of its Parliament when the Union of Parliament with England took place in 1707. A significant "sweetener" to the Scottish nobles was compensation for their Darien losses. The other big incentive was open access to England's Empire and the Caribbean profits that this offered....

And going still further back to the 1650s, the Scottish POWs in question would almost certainly have been from the Cromwellian Civil War which spilled across the borders into Scotland and Ireland with bloody consequences.

I was aware of the story of the ship from Darien that supposedly ran aground near Treasure Beach. But I've also heard the 1830s mentioned in connection with a shipwreck. Could either - or both - of these be the main reason for the Scottish blood that seems to course through the veins of so many residents of TB? And given the treacherous coast in this area, might there have been more still?

The more I hear of the history of TB, the more fascinating it becomes.

Many thanks for taking the time to write. Please do keep in touch.

Kindest regards

James

I find this discussion SO INTERESTING.
I am researching my family history (for a novel I'm working on)and I just discovered that a family "myth" exsists where my great grandmother and her family were shipwrecked off the coast of Jamaica and rumor has it they were coming over from Scotland. Great Grandma's maiden name was either Esther Mae Rutherford or Elizabeth Mae Rutherford. If you have any information...I would so apprecaite it.

If you go to a link www.jamaicagleaner.com you will see a link to a book called Pieces of the Past. If you click on that you will see a lot of information on the topic.

hello, some of my family's names are moxam ,ebanks, keith, james and halfknight, wich are scottish surnames and are in treasure beach, i even know that some of the moxams in particular "cunue moxam" owned alot of land and on them he also owned slaves. how and when they got to treasure jamaica is a mystery..... but i would like to know more, here is some info on a slave ship the ZONG that came to dock in black river in 1781.





abouthttp://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071231/news/news3.html

Dear All

Just to keep you updated on things from the "Scottish side". I've had some very interesting conversations and meetings over the last few weeks. One was with a professor of Scottish history who is the leading authority on the period. He's v supportive of the idea and wants us to keep him posted on how it develops. I also had a v interesting chat with a gentleman who is in the media in Kingston. The beauty of it is that every person who hears about this story is enthralled by it. It seems to grab everybod's attention and interest regardless of their professional background or geographical location.

I've been able to see pictures of the cannons that now reside at "Jake's" hotel and I'm trying to get some more info about their likely place of production - the Carron Iron Works in Falkirk (20 mins drive from where I live!)

The production company that I'm working with is finalising the package to take to some TV companies to see if we can secure a commission to make it into a programme.

So things are bubbling along quite the thing.

Please do keep in touch with me if you have any suggestions, advice or info that you think would be of help.

Regards

James