Looks like work may finally begin...but don't un-cross your fingers!!

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071031/news/news7.html

Am I imagining that Minister Henry stated that "this thing needs a more in-depth analysis"? Somebody please tell me that I didn't really read this in the above article!

The full quote is shown below so it can be properly contexed. You have to fully understand the nature of any complex problem first before you can fix it. You can't just dig a hole and then say "what next?"

here's the quote:

"This is one of the things I have been handed down ... I should have been briefed on the magnitude of a problem like this. Obviously, based on what I have heard, this thing needs a more in-depth analysis," Minister Henry told the gathering.

The problem I have with the quote is that the Minister only pointed out the obvious. Many persons on this site have been pointing that out for a very long time.

The quote stopped short however by him not
a: Committing to immediately conduct this analysis and
b: Getting it resolved with a timeline.

To say that he "should have been briefed" on the magnitude of the problem" is like saying they are not talking to each other, because Dr. tufton, should have known the magnitude and should have briefed him. It would appear to me that it still was only rhetoric and that they need to understand that our people are not just going to accept rhetoric, but wants action. My wife and I have property close to the canal, and not only are we worried about property value, but also the health hazard that exists if the propper drainage of the area does not get resolved. "Denque fever anyone?".

If there are any freshwater fish that find their way to the ponds, mosquito larva will most likely become one of their foods.

If there are none, the appropriate species could be introduced. For dry time a holding pond could be incorporated to enable enough to survive until the pond fills again.

Question!

Are there any working fountains in Jamaica?

How are fountains and drainage canals related?

Non working Parish clocks have related causes.

1.Too many cooks.

2 Too many studies. 3...but then it's late here and the chill northwind blows and I have to drive past the creatures of the night.....

And...this has been discussed on a zillion varandahs, bars, board rooms and commitees.

The long wait for the Treasure Beach canal continues

BY Garfield Myers Editor-at-Large South/Central Bureau myersg@jamaicaobserver.com
Sunday, November 04, 2007



Santa Cruz, St Elizabeth - The way Deita Campbell tells it, every time she sees rain clouds, stress sets in.

All because of the failure, thus far, to complete a drainage canal that is intended to prevent flooding of her neighbourhood in Treasure Beach, South West St Elizabeth.


The incomplete drainage canal in Treasure Beach, South West St Elizabeth that is intended to prevent flooding.

"It's making me very ill, my nerves, every time I see the rain setting up I start to fret because I don't know when I'm going to be flooded out," Campbell recently told a delegation led by Works Minister Mike Henry, and including SW St Elizabeth Member of Parliament Chris Tufton as well as officials of the National Works Agency (NWA).

Work on the canal started in April last year with - as it turned out - the unrealistic aim being to complete the job before the height of last year's hurricane season. Eighteen months later, the 1,000-metre-long canal is only 40 per cent complete with $21 million already spent of an estimated $70 million costing.

And by the end of the recent tour, Treasure Beach residents were no nearer to an understanding of just when the project will be completed, though Henry - who startled those on the spot by admitting he had not been briefed on the project - committed his ministry to doing its best.

Campbell and her neighbours are haunted by the memory of two years ago when rains from Hurricane Wilma led to massive overflow of the Great Pond and other fresh water ponds in the Treasure Beach area. The ponds joined to form a huge lake which forced Campbell and many of her neighbours to vacate their homes.

For several weeks small boats provided the easiest form of transportation for scores of people in Great Bay which was the worst hit community in Treasure Beach.

"The night when we were flooded out, we had water up to my breast in my house. My husband had to carry me out of my home on his back," Campbell recalled. The experience has influenced Campbell and many of her neighbours to keep their furniture on "blocks" for the past two hurricane seasons.

Their trauma was the reason the previous People's National Party (PNP) Government started work to drain excess water from the ponds during times of flooding, via a canal to the sea. However, the inadequacy of financial flows and unforeseen difficulties, including lengthy negotiations over the sale of land to facilitate the project, slowed proceedings - occasionally to a halt - during the past two years.

The canal - its banks breaking away in some places during heavy rains - is now mostly dug. But residents, pointing to the dangers posed to their homes and property if the breakaways continue; and the "backing up" of water from the sea during the October rains, fear the unfinished canal could itself become a threat if the project is not speedily completed.
It emerged during discussions involving Henry, Tufton, NWA officials and locals that $9 million of a budgeted $30 million remained to be spent.

On belatedly making this discovery, Henry, who had earlier very pointedly told the NWA head, Milton Hodelin, that "I believe I should have been briefed on the magnitude of a problem like this", pledged that the allocated money would be made available.

The bulk of that will go to the building of a box culvert close to the Marblue Hotel just above where the canal enters the sea. Another box culvert was built earlier this year.

Hodelin reported that the remaining $40 million still to be allocated by government would go to paving the walls and floor of the canal as well as fencing it in; and the erection of an environmental "screen" at the entrance from the Great Pond to the canal. The Sunday Observer was also told by NWA officials that a "gate" is planned for the entrance to the sea. The screen will block the flow of debris from the pond into the canal while the gate is intended to prevent high tide from the sea flooding the canal.

A cautious Henry told residents and journalists that he would have to further "brief" himself on the project and conduct a "full review". He appeared to suggest that once the remaining $9 million of the current allocation is spent, the remainder of the required funds would have to await next April's Budget, which will be the first prepared by the Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) Government elected on September 3.

He was clearly unable to adequately satisfy Campbell's plea to "please get on with the project and let us be able to sleep comfortably in our beds", but he promised Treasure Beach residents that he would keep communication lines open and would keep them fully informed of developments. To underline his point, the minister gave his telephone numbers - including cellular and home.

"Suffice it to say that as we prepare the new budget I will be seeking to include the immediacy of the need as it relates to the immediacy of the impact.," Henry said.

Hodelin and Tufton identified natural run-off from the Santa Cruz Mountains and rapid construction on the slopes above Treasure Beach - which in some cases have blocked natural channels - as reasons for flooding. Hodelin noted that the Treasure Beach area, including the ponds ,was in fact a "catchment" for the mountain run off.

Tufton, who is minister of agriculture and lands, argued that with rapid "development on the hill" there was urgent "need for a development plan and we need the authorities to enforce the rules, we need some central drainage system. We need to start looking at . satellite imagery to look at a particular terrain, predict or project run-off, look at how development is taking place and then put in place a network of canals and run-offs to address the issue".

Hotelier Jason Henzell said the dumping of wetlands was a contributory factor to flooding and he too urged a proper drainage plan.

"A lot of people are dumping up lands," said Henzell. "As lands become more valuable in Treasure Beach, lands that were wet before are being dumped up and that is changing the pattern of where the water goes. It's like a moving target, if we don't stop and make an assessment of the entire area and do a drainage plan, then you are going to patch here, but it's going to come out in another area."

You can slice and dice it any which way, it makes no difference. The canal has been how long in the making now, and we're still hearing about analysis? Oh God, I need a drink!

That is the point my friend. No analysis was ever made, that's why we're still talking. The powers that be dug a hole just to say they were intent on doing something to help the problem. But for 18 months or so, the hole remained a hole. Now we have new leaders who would like to move forward, but wouldn't it be nice if the old powers had made the laid open their plans for utilising the allocated sum of $70million?

I'm sure the info in the article above, posted by Fisherman's friend is the type of 'briefing' that was being sought. Now at least there are benchmarks to which the present government and other agencies can be be held accountable. More progress was made in the last 2 weeks than was made in the prior 18 months!

The focus should now be on meeting the next target on the plan or if in disagreement then to offer alternative ideas as to how the job can be finished to the advantage of all involved. This is no time to get tired.

If someone has the e-mail addresses for Dr. Tufton and Mr. Henry as well as their complete names and titles, perhaps some of us could write directly to them to explain the urgency of the situation. It seems this would be acceptable especially as the article stated Mr. Henry had given out his personal phone numbers.

Was a seasonal, or a regular, stream that the ponds are part of diverted long ago?

If so, where was the bed/s and where did it meet the sea?

I keep hearing the story of some kind of damming up near backseaside.

Turey you are so right they should have look in to the history of the water table before starting the canal.yes Great Pond has a water table to the sea .The bottom of pond is sand if go dry we will have sand storm in breeze time .when we has a drought along with low tide the pond dry up .The water is salt it has a tide so it not possible for breeding mosquitoes ,it cantain fish ,when the water getting low these fish bury themself in the mud they and die, but thier eggs hatches when the water back in the pond.Croc visit for feeding every now and then ,so if you go game fishing be carefull .HIstory is there is a spring that come out from the bottom of hills at the back of Great Bay this where block by the Arawak Indians .This stream has the saying goes it run down from the hill cross Great Pond crosses down the pond in front of Calver Senior place and empty into the creek by miss Inie place ,this creek goes to the sea at Frenchman Bay .When i heard that they where going to do something about the water i where thinking they would use cement colume (tubing) from the frist pond that the back of Denise Vasell house then cross the road by the church and into Gilpin pond then go cross by the genis resident and into the sea
,knowing the area the people will flood by the time the water cross into Gilpin pond then from Gilpin pond to great pond the land also would need to be drege .My good folks my prayer is with you .

There's a spring at the bottom of the Great Bay hill called "David's Spring". There is a pond adjacent to this spring called "Salt Spring Hole". If one walks in a westerly direction, one comes to "Auntie Nana" pond. Continuing west, there's another pond which is located behind auntie Genie Smith's house (not sure of the pond's name). As one walks south westerly and pass by mass Sam DeLeon's shop (Packy Creek), and cross the road, one passes right by another little pond on mass Johnny Forrest's land. Continuing in the same direction, there's the "Well Lane" and "Rush Pond", and across the well lane is Great Pond.
Further, continuing west from Great Pond, the same network of ponds continue due westward.
So clearly, without any great imagination, there is evidence of an ancient network of ponds in the area which all seem to come together infrequently.

It is also interesting to find brackish water right at the very foot of the Great Bay Hills, at some distance from the salted Great Pond, but with evident connections in between.

One other tidbit, but perhaps the most important to this subject, is that in the rainy season, water always come rushing down from the hills through a path between mass Roxy Smith's and mass Dan Smith's house causing flooding in the lower Great Bay area (down the road), before ending up in Great Pond and beyond. This latter point is, in my opinion, one of the major causes of the flooding and should be seriously considered in any "analysis" (oops).

Thanks denise, maybe this information will find use.

Looks like Great Bay was almost an island way back.

If the blocking of the spring story is right, I
wonder why it was done. Croc infestation or local flooding?

The spring was blocked probably by one set of settlers wanting to deny the water to another group? The Arawaks were involved somehow? Don't know how true.

One Man you/re so right in what you/re saying ,its a pity you did/nt share this information with Mr Buchanan maybe he would/ve finish the canal long time ago and we would/nt be here discussing "analysis"

True true "oops": I take full responsibility!

Thanks you guys for your input .One Man i like the way you lay out all the ponds this will give everyone a knowledge of the area .TB problem WATER -DROUGHT .When i were a child i remember Mr Alvin james (pum pum) dredge his ponds with a bulldozer ,the pond cantain the water for a very long time his purpose for watering his cows ,but in times of drought the community would go to these ponds to do thier laundry .Mr Alvin were a roll model ,may his blessed soul rest in peace. These water could be use for irrigation or fish breeding ,so lets go back to the old saying WATER A BLESSING and YOU DONT KNOW THE USE OF WATER TILL THE WELL RUN DRY .who knows maybe we could supply U.S.A or our neighboring country with some healthy food.

Thanks one man and thanks again denise.

I have enjoyed walks besides these ponds. I hope the solutions to this take into account the ecology, economy and beauty here.

And thanks Bob!

Turey, you may be interested to know that at one time there was an enormous sand dune in Great Bay starting from "Auntie Nana Sandy Hill" (just west of the Plymouth Brethren Church), and extending all the way east to Back Seaside. This sand perhaps channeled water running off the hillside into a westerly direction, and over the last few thousand years, aided by weathering and erosion, may have produced the present topography.

The sand no longer exists since it was gradually trucked away, mainly to build the great bauxite mining plants.

As Ziggy sings: "Love is the only law to obey". Give thanks.

http://www.jamaica-star.com/thestar/20071110/news/news9.html

maybe it will happen

Thanks one man, do you or anyone think that the

old water path could be restored? Canal or not.

Would this make any sense?

Ahh the history in those dunes....gaaaaan!

No turey, not if we're having such a hard time finishing a little dig from the pond to the sea. Alas.

Alas fi true one man.

Just remember..."better mus come!"

It would be pathetic if better come and gone.

Deliverance is near! Don't let the showers make you think otherwise. After a storm there must be calm.

Thanks Bob, my eyes are peeled and my spirit has not flagged.

But laad sah, Jamdown can be a raatid test