Hi there,

Just wanted to give a shout out to Josette, Goldie, and Percy at SunSplash. My family and I stayed there over the Calabash Festival weekend and we had a great time. I learned a lot from Josette and Goldie, too -- about New Subbanah and the slave history of Port Charles. It was a wonderful time of relaxation for my family and it also felt lovely to be steeped in some of the traditions of the area.

Highly recommended!

Take care,

Nadia

Hi Nadia thanks for showing your appreciation to my mom Josette my cousin goldie and percy . Its nice knowing you enjoy yourself in treasure beach .I am here in cayman wishing i were home for some good food, and most of all good laugh, everyone is a real comedian. I will pass on your kind words of appreciation to them.From Josette daughter in grand cayman.

I was wondering what Nadia meant by New Subbanah. Anyone with a response please post it up. Thank you!

Nadia, please give our regards to Josette, Goldie, and Percy for us. Sunsplash is our favorite place because of them, not to mention the villa, pool, privacy, and good food. Hopefully, we will see everyone in November. Missing our friends in TB! OXOX

Hello curious i will try to explain the word new subbanah .has a treasure beacher ,frist of all i should tell you the right word is new savannah .new subbanah is patwa.(jamaica creole),and i think you are now curious where is this place .if you go to treasure beach you will notice a hill that run all the way to fort charles .well if you hike this hill, at the top you will get a surprise .there is a big plain(flat land)this were the frist settlement of our(treasuer beachers)forefather .if you go there you will see some tombs that is made of clay and stone ,i hope this will help.

Hi Joe& jean i see you guys send your regaurds to my mom Josette , cousin Goldie and Percy.well i talk with her and relate your message to her ,she is over joy to hear from you guys ,she say it were nice having you ,and she look foreward seeing guys again .

Hi Denise,
We remember your Mom talking about you. She is a very special person and can't wait to see her, Goldie, and Percy again. Thanks for saying hello to everyone.

Thanks for the info about new subbanah. I will be sure to look for it next time i'm in TB. Any other historically relevant places in TB?
Thanks again

Gone to new Subannah fro years to pick mangoes never knew there was tombs- thanks for the information.

Hi canada if you did go to new savannah to pick ,then i would say you are from TB .If you go to TB again go and talk with some of the older folk .Has i can remeber ther are some tombs on mas cecile clarke land ,Also on mas roland land.may their blessed sole rest in peace.Most of the fruit trees were planted by our forefather .did you know that most of the land were name afer a person .My grandmother told me that her greatgrand perents did not know these people ,they only knew that they were the offsprings of these people .I am planning to go home (TB)and stay for about six weeks ,and tell you i am going to New subbanah ,if its just for the last time ,those were good old days-SMILE.Anything you need to be hi-lite on just give a shout.

Hi hooked on TB, when you go to TB again talk with some of the older folks you will learn alot from them .there are a couple of places ,like Old wharf,the Bluff and Fort Charles.At Old wharf there were a big clay pot that the slaves used to boil cane juice for making sugar ,also there were some big cast iron pots .The water at Old wharf are very deep,it were use has a dock by the English.Fort Charles were control by the Spainards .The frist battle between the English and the spainard took place in Fort Charles .the English had the victory ,and give the name Fort Charles.The Bluff is said to a place of burial for the Arawaks Indians ,i did not see it for myself ,could any one give some facts on this? .I ride in boat around the bluff ,but rever climb it .People that gone there say its a great place ,and nice view.I think it would be a great place for a resort.

Thank you very much Denise for the info on New Savannah. It really helped to clear things up. So now that I know the New one, what would you call the Old Savannah?

If Denise or anybody else could respond, I would be very grateful.

Thank you very much.

Denise thanks for the info. Next time I'm in TB I will definitely visit these places, keeping in mind the info you have shared with us. Maybe there could be a new category on this site that is dedicated to TB history, facts , historical pics etc. Webmaster what do you think about such a category?
another question,did Jamaica have Arawaks, Taino or both?

Hello hooked on TB .Arawak indians and taino is the same .Before the arrival of the spainards ,only caribs and arawaks inhabit jamaica .

Denise,Once again thanks.

From the 9th to the 14th centuries, Great Bay was the major center of the TAINO aka Arawak culture
in Jamaica; Puerto Rico was another major center. Paradise Park near Sav/Tony and Busha Clarke's place, is another Jamaican Taino site, with digs
being done by the University of Flordia uncovering many artifacts over the past decade.This August, a team of archaeologists is doing a test-site dig on private lands in Great Bay to uncover more evidence of this little
known civilization.

Do you know if the artifacts that are recovered will and are remaining in the possession of the Jamaican government's ownership and possession? Does anyone know Jamaican laws pertaining to possession, sale, export and or removal of historic and cultural artifacts

Hi Curious .regarding your question ,Old savannah. i would say a Old savannah never exist,the reason i say this ,the word savannah mean land that is fertile ,good for planting.When our forefathers came to jamaica they settle along the seacourst. most of the soil in TB are clay that needs alot of water for cultivating.there is a saying that a stream once run from the hill side in Great Bay ,but were block by arawak indians(Traino).

Hi Alice i don`t know if there is alaw that protect Artifacts in jamaica .But i think it should all stay in jamaica,because if you don't where you are coming from you ,then you won't know where you are going.There is a Museum at White marl (St Catherine jamaica) that has good collection of Arawak (traino)artifacts.Let hope what ever they fine will be add to this,or stay in jamaica .

Hi Denise, after posing the question I have been researching and will continue to do so until I can definitevly ascertain if laws proctect(or don't) artifacts and therefore history of Jamaica. I too hope that there are laws protecting the preservation of Jamaica's history. As we know Pre-Columbian art is very collectible and valuable from an archaeological, and art historian perspective. European and North American laws definitely protect the preservation of their countries histories and Jamaica's laws should do the same.

Hello Hooked on TB .it is nice to know that there is some one that love TB,just has much has i do .I will shear a little more of TB history with you.The frist automobile in TB were own by Mr Erick honeyghan ,this auto is the one that you have to crank to get it going .Mr Erick use to live in Mandeville and when ever he come to TB everyone would go the side of road (track)to have a look.Also the frist time a Aircraft flow over the people in TB would og hide ,they say it were the end of the world.My grandmother told me that she were a young girl ,she was born 1910 ,so i would think this would be about in the 1930 .this craft were a zeppline or zepheline.The sound of this craft were of a thunder and fly very low .Do any one know any thing about this craft ,please put your penny in bucket.

Hi Denise - A zepplin is a blimp, is a "lighter than air" craft. Looks like a big cigar with a little cabin below. A zephyr would be the name of a more conventional airplane. By the 30s doubt it could be a jet, but propeller-driven planes were very noisy. I was a boy near LaGuardia Airport in New York City and the planes overhead were really loud. After a while, though, we hardly heard them. My grandmother was born before the Wright Brothers (Kitty Hawk, 1903) and before she died she flew north to visit by a jet airliner. Things move fast. Van

Alice, as a post-colonial nation, Jamaica is sensitive to the potential for extraction of its natural and cultural heritage.

The Jamaica National Heritage Trust is the agency responsible for the identification and preservation of Jamaica's natural and cultural heritage, and the 1985 Act that includes fines for illegal extraction is on their website.

Of course, legislation is one thing; having sufficient resources for enforcement is another. But if anyone finds anything, JNHT are the folks who are supposed to be informed about it for cataloguing and possible exhibition.

Arawak/taino artifacts
About thirty five years ago there was still a huge sand dune behind Great Bay. It was full of pottery shards and small ormanented pieces.

Unfortuatly, it was all illegally mined for the sand before it had been properly researched. But it certainly indicated that there was a large settlement in the area.

There were also fragments in the sand dunes at Old Warf.

There are isolated patches in the Pedro Hills (straddling Great Bay from "Back Seaside" west to the Police Station) that have yielded some illegal finds for a few people in the past. From the limited knowledge that I have of the area, there are caves there (lost or hidden) that may still contain undiscovered artifacts from prehistoric times.

I know that JA probably doesn't have the resources to excavate the area but, perhaps in the future, the aforementioned JNHT, with some private sponsorship, may be able to undertake a study.

Many years ago, I remember there was an in-depth news report on a prominent family of Great Bay that resided in the Pedro Hills at the time (above David Spring and Salt Spring Hole). The report indicated that this family descended directly from the Arawaks' and it is in this area that I suspect there are a lot of "stuff".

As for Janet Todd's comment, while I've never heard of the pottery shards and ornamental pieces, I fondly remember repeatedly sliding down those sand dunes as a child. Those were the good old days before electricity and, thus, before TV and video games.

Van thank you for reponding to the my question(aircarft).I recive some new informations on this craft .The right name for this craft ZEPPELIN .I did some resreach in this ,and its very intresting.Its nice to know there is some folks that remember the olding days.Thanks again Van.

The first time we found bits of pottery in the dune behind Great Bay was after a very heavy rainstorm, which may have moved a lot of sand. So when 'child of H.I.M.' slid down the dunes as a child, they could have been covered up. I would like to contact H.I.M if possible, and will leave my e mail address.