I just read on the Gleaner that there was a Sports Park planned for ST. Elizebeth. They said it was not just a place for children to play, but a place for sporting events to be held? What are your thoughts on this? Is it true? Will it hurt or help? Thanks.

Here's the link: http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060622/cook/cook1.html

Its for Treasure Beach. Some people think its good. Others don't. It depends whose talking about it. The people for it think it will bring more money to Treasure Beach. And they say how it will be good for the residents. The people against it think it will bring more traffic then the roads can hold and also bad elements and noise. The people for it keep promising to answer questions, but they are being very secret about the plans. Like, who will pay for it to be built? And who will pay for the upkeep? And who will really be in charge of it? And will it be safe?

FYI, the plans for the Sports Complex/Park are on display at the Breds office in Kingfisher Plaza. Go take a look.

What would it take to stop this project? Is it
already a done deal?

From Caribbean Travel News, July 06 2004
(http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/article/20040706103501917)
" I believe in zoning and think the South Coast of Jamaica should be zoned for sustainable development only. Small hotels which have an environmental program and a community outreach
program. Incentives should be developed to encourage this type of development. Once again,
he indicates his passion for preserving Treasure Beach. He wants to keep it pure and the way
Jamaica used to be."

Eric, for those of us who are not anywhere near Treasure Beach, would you please post a picture of the plans for the stadium? Also would you please tell us more details. Where will the stadium be, and when is it scheduled to be built?

Exactly where will this stadium be? How many people will the seats hold? Is there a loud speaker system? Will there be a car park? If so, for how many vehicles?

From Caribbean Travel News June 22 2006
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/article.php?story=20060622115939614

Is it Eric the Web Master whose answering (or not) our questions? I don't understand why there are no answers, Eric. I have the same questions as the others. Who will be answering and when? Even though we don't live there, we visit alot, and we care about the community and we want to know about anything this big.

The Sports Park idea came up a few years ago and fourteen acres of land were purchased by the Ministry of Housing and Water with the intention of leasing the land back to the community for a sports facility. If you search this site using keywords for sports complex and sports park you can read the minutes of community meetings on the subject and comments. The land is below Sandy Bank and has three access roads. One is between Sandy Bank Primary and the ice factory, the second is the road to Loxly opposite Doubloon, and the third road is in from Fisherman's Club. Architects were consulted and plans now show parking for four hundred cars, several tennis courts, two basketball courts, two swimming pools, running track, cricket pitch, football field, and playground. There is no stadium as such on the drawings, but the current plan does call for building changing rooms and bathrooms with bleachers built on top for spectators. The ponds on the land will be filled in. Major concerns for local residents include noise pollution, garbage, unruly sports fans coming to town, traffic nightmares and unanswered questions as to how this facility will be funded and maintained. The existing ponds hold thousands of gallons of water so there is serious concern over where all that water will go when we experience heavy rains that already flood the surrounding area. There are many questions waiting to be answered, and the involvement of the whole community is necessary to determine if this is really a good idea or if there is still a way to stop it. Your comments will be appreciated.

I am concerned about the Fishermans Lane passing Miss Sheila's house. Will there be ext of roads.
The pipes burst whenever trucks comes in the lanes, what will happen to all of this. First I think we need roads infrastructure, then take the rest from there. Good idea but a lot of planning needs to be done

Ahhhh ponds....water!

If only the water could be utilised for irrigation etc instead of banishing it and its gifts to parts unknown.

Also, are crocs, migratory birds etc utilising the pond?

All these pesky inconvenient truths.

I am not in the area right now and do not have pictures to share. If I did I would have posted them already. I was hoping others who are there and do have specific information would reply. This board works best when individuals contribute what they can.

Some people have posted messages here that contain a mix of opinion and rumor, and were therefore not posted.

This is a complex issue. What we need is truth and accurate answers. Please keep that in mind when posting.

-TBNet

I've known about these plans for a couple of years now and have contributed my ideas to the development. Obviously, I am a proponent of doing this. But also know that i am directly affected by it, since it will be below my house (Moxam home next to new mansion being built on Sany Bank's hill).

I have yet to see the details of the plans but I'm confident it will be beautiful and in the best interest of the people. Although i am only in TB about 1 month out of the year, I can see this helping the socioeconomics of the comunity. It will force the development of roads, better irrigation systems, as well as provide for new employment opportunities directly and indirectly through national domestic investments and possible foreign domestic investments. Another thing to keep in mind: sustainable growth. Technology has a way of improving lives and the environment, the only way TB will see a lot these improvements is through investors and an open supportive community where this sort of growth is conducive.

The idea that we must keeep in mind is that the only way of preserving the lands our families have protected for decades is to be actively involved in supporting Zoning Restrictions. Someone with a good vision of the future and also a good vision of TB's true history should be involved. TB's comunity and businesses must remain integrated for everyone to benefit from this growth. Most importantly: the comunity members must know what is going on and understand the terms for a future TB.

Rebecca- i am calling you out- as TB's Ambassodor to Foreign Affairs and Comunications ;-) Can you post an image of the proposed plans for us? please? Thanks.

The Treasure Beach sports park has been, and will continue to be, the subject of healthy discussion. As with any major development in our community, it is essential that we base our comment and opinions, whatever they may be, on fact. In order to keep us all as informed as possible, I have spoken to Jason Henzell, one of the key people behind the project, and here are the main points he put forth:

The vision for the sports park is that it will be similar to facilities offered in Barbados and the marine park which has just opened in Port Antonio. It will be a place which can be enjoyed by everyone: the local community, tourists, visiting sports teams ...


It is important to note that the plans on display in the BREDS office are only outline drawings based on the input of numerous interested parties. The fifteen acres we have at our disposal would not be able to accommodate a development as large as the plans suggest.

What is, in actual fact, intended, is a sports park which is similar in size to the Alpart Sports Ground. It will most certainly not be a massive concrete stadium, but a development which is sympathetic to the look and feel of Treasure Beach and the natural, unique, community-based tourism ideal which we offer.

The plans include a community centre, large children’s play area, a combined football and cricket field, a five-a-side football field, one netball court, one basketball court, one tennis court and a public swimming pool.

The pond would remain where it is and walking and running trails would be laid around it, with a BBQ area built around the trees. The whole emphasis is on making the park look as natural as possible and definitely not to have it develop as an ugly eyesore on the landscape.

The plans are for the stands to be built on the hill, with a total capacity for around 500 people. The parking area can easily accommodate visitors in such numbers.

As for the purchase of the land, this was funded by the Jamaican government, whilst BREDS funded the topographical survey. Private industry and various agencies are currently being approached for further funding.

The aim with this project is to develop a sports park which fits in with the ethos of Treasure Beach and which is a bonus to our community. It is not intended to be a wildly commercial development which flies in the face of everything we hold dear about this unique place on the south coast of Jamaica.

Your feedback and comments are crucial in enabling the progress of a sports park which is supported by us all. Alternatively, contact BREDS direct on info@breds.org.

Parking for 400 cars alone (the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot) should give pause to the TB community on the impact of this too secretive
project. 5000 people came to Calabash this year, so think of the increase in traffic, the demand on services like water, sewage, garbage collection, and policing, the lines at Jack Sprat and 400 more cars trying to make it down the marl roads alone. There also seem to be a lot of ethical questions about how the land was acquired, the developers and politicians involvement and intentions here for the immediate present and more important, the future. It's really not that different than
the protests many small towns make when a big box store like Wal-Mart tries to muscle its way into rural areas which it inevitably changes to their detriment forever. Many suffer, few benefit.

First of all it is a sports PARK not an arena, obviously the developers would have already considered those logistics when planning for this, if not then this will only send them back to the drawing board. Second of all the proposed location, wouldn't permit such a scope unless the parking lot was lofty. The idea of such a community based park works pretty well. Look at ALPART sports club. Almost every high school in the US has one. Let's not get too melodramatic everyone, this should benefit TB's fading fishing industry. Everyone needs to eat. Positivity will make this a sucess.

I am all for the development of the Sports Park so long as it tastefully done.
Great economic strides for the community will come from this.Work that it will provide and in general a better standard of living for those employed with spending power.
Change is always hard to deal with but with an open mind we can all look forward.
I am sure the plans will take into account where residents live,noise,traffic etc.
Our community can handle this with dignity.
I was born in the UK and came to Jamaica as a child but Jamaica is my home,i love it more than my country of birth.
Treasure Beach is a paradise and that can never be changed because of the love that comes form the residents pride.

Not sure whoose plate some of us are eating from, this has to be democratically done correctly,a few people who have this idea is not the community at large.

One have to be careful of using the term COMMUNITY when the greater population is left out, and only a few chosen who share the same views are on the decision making end. Treasure Beach is made up groups of communities not a few
RESORT OWNERS.

So the land was leased back to the community by the Ministry of Housing and Water. Who is the lessee and for how long is the lease? I see Breds showing up in all of this. Was the land leased to Jason Henzell or to Breds?

I am a Treasure Beach native born on a hill and when I read this about this park project that's in the making I'm starting to do a quick reflection of the area to see where this park could possible take place and the only place that comes to mind is the land that belongs to the family of a man we called Mass Alvin and above that is a hill we called Coke Hill. As a child we used to walk there to the old Sandy Bank School House.Alvin James owned that large piece of land with a pond and there was a lady called Miss Vine that live right next to it..If not the only other place that comes to mind is the land on the left after leaving the postal agency that had/has a windmill on it across from the Pentecostal church.
If I'm right let me know.
Thanks.
.

It's simply untrue to say every high school in the US has a sports park, especially one of this size and scope. The ALPART sports club is also not in an area which relies on tourism and a reputation for peace and quiet. It's fatuous to fall back on that old chestnut of 'positivity
will make this a success'. How many jobs will be created to replenish those lost in the fishing industry? Yes, everyone needs to eat, but at the same table, with developers and politicians not being served first.Vigilance is called for, not blind allegiance to political interests with a record of failure to the community.

This is in reference to the Sports Park in Treasure Beach, St. Elizabeth. I have read a few comments made by residents, non-residents and people who was born in Treasure Beach, and has invested millions in the community. My take on this is, it would be a good idea if it is enclosed, exp. a Stadium. Has anyone think of the crime this kind of complex will create?. I would love to see a Hospital and a Community Center built instead of this noisy idea being put forward. A good Teaching Hospital would generate jobs, and at the same time the Government will be able to get money from other countries. People are dying because there are only one MRI in JAMAICA, not to mention CT Machines, X-Ray Machins etc. A Community School, will help teach the older folks how to invest, teach them how to create things that will help the country instead of importing food and other materials from other countries. Look at Brazil, they are a Third World Country, yet they were able to utilize sugarcane into ethanol which would drop the gas price dramatically. What next? shooting and killing. I will do my best to stop this insanity.... Teach and help the sick and the less unfortunate. There are many places other than the site chosen to build a community pool, which will not disturb the residents who would like to sit on their patio and read a good book, while enjoying the beautiful view. Wake up everyone

I would like to see any drawings/plans posted here of the proposed development.

I have written previously and expressed my passion for the natural beauty of Treasure Beach and it's ancient and unique history.

The ideas Rebecca posted sound in keeping with the spirit of the area and the young (and not so) would benefit from such facilities.

Remember though, once ground is broken for any development it is very difficult to 'unbreak' it!

Here is also an opportunity to put sustainable principles into practice.

Solar power, composting toilets and reuse of grey water would be a start. It could be an appropriate demononstration point for these technologies.

I'm encouraged to hear that no pond will be filled in.

As inevitably any such facilities will be used for celebrations/parties, the use of amplified sound should be limited to proper sound proofed areas, if allowed at all.

The sounds of the drums, strings and breath are sufficient.

What is the projected maximum vehicle load and the projected average? Parking for how many?

How many people is the facility designed to hold?

There will be Lignum Vitae groves right?

And yes Sharon, there is also need for medical and other community needs.

I hope we respect what some of our ancestors refered to as "All My Relations" in coming to a decision.

Whew, what a little firestorm this has created. It's obvious that it's time to remind everyone of the posting process here. For those who have gone outside of them, we'll forgive the ignorance if you are new here. For those who've been around the board for a while, shame on you for not respecting the rules.

We will only post messages which conform to the guidelines listed here for postings on TB.Net. We will not post any messages which contain rumor or threats. Please re-read your comments before sending them in to make sure they conform to this guideline. Please understand that we struggle with what to approve or not approve as many comments have very valid points within them, but another part of the message holds a threat or rumor or something else inappropriate so we cannot approve it. Also, we often confer with each other on some messages and that may take us a day or so delay before you see the message approved. (Plus we also have jobs that require our attention. This is our side project!)

We are not taking sides, as we are often being accused of, nor do we have an agenda beyond what is written on the home page of this site. We are only trying to protect the integrity of this site and the community and not have it torn down by false rumors and heated comments meant to destroy versus build up the positive vibe of TB. If you are not satisfied with this, well then, don't log on. The Internet is a big place and there are other forums which may welcome a less civilized debate.

It has also been our experience that comments may change if there is accountability. Therefore, from here on in, any comment made regarding the sports park will not be posted if you do not provide your email address. All comments will then be forwarded to BREDS as they have asked for feedback.

And finally, please READ CAREFULLY what some have written before you respond. If you put in an extra effort to truly understand what others have written, there will be less confusion and animosity.

-TBNet

Just for clarification, Turey, in the message you posted earlier you stated "The ideas Rebecca posted . . ." were from an interview I conducted with Jason Henzel representing BREDS. I just would like to make sure this is clear to anyone reading these comments - not my ideas, just the information relayed to me from Jason.

Thanks for your participation!

AOK Rebecca.

Best, turey

400 parking spaces? That's huge! There is not one establishment in TB that is equipped to handle such a large influx of people. This sports park sounded like a nice, *small* community-based idea when I first heard about it a year ago. An enormous complex with parking for 400 vehicles is hardly in scale with the community of TB.

"If you build it, they will come," as the movie said ... and what will happen to TB when 'they' came? What will happen to the roads, what will happen to the beaches, to the quiet, to the community tourism industry (because you know a giant hotel or two can't be far behind if the owners are really thinking about sports tourism) ... what will happen to all the things we all know and love about TB?

When I was told about this park, I was told it was a project BREDS was involved with. I was given this information by someone who is part of BREDS and who seemed to truly have the best interests of the community at heart. Now I'm feeling less sure. Is it possible that BREDS could be mixed up in something that sounds so detrimental to the life of TB? Is it possible that BREDS is moving away from the community-focused good works it has done up until now? If that's so, I'm sad to know it.

And as for the idea that 'every high school' in the US has a sports park like the one described here, don't believe it. Most schools have very modest sports facilities. The high school I went to had *no* sports facilities until the year before I graduated. Prior to that, we shared a fieldhouse with another school. A few very large highschools may have such large complexes (and more than likely those would be in wealthy neighborhoods), but those sports parks are built for schools that have 3,000 or more students! Since when is there a 3,000-person need for a sports park in TB?

I urge everyone to find out as much as possible about these sports park plans and share info here. Just as I couldn't help but be suspicious of the eternally-annoying "Process process process" and his cheesy website idea, I can't help but be suspicious of the things I am now hearing about this sports park. I would like to hear directly from BREDS about this project and see them post pictures of what the final project is supposed to look like (surely there is an artist's rendering of the proposed park).

Change comes. We all know it. Nothing stays the same forever. But gradual, carefully thought out change is surely healthier for everyone than the sudden arrival of what sounds like a mamoth sports park that would flood the area with cars and people and completely change the make up of TB.

GG

Girlgriot, please read over Jason's comments on the park and I think that may answer many of your questions.

I am not surprised the least that the guidlines of this website are not adhered to. The guidlines have been ignored deliberately on topics that are either personal to some people or on topics that are specific to a group of people or person. Again the mission and vision of Treasure Beach.Net are simply not clear enough for people who likes to propogate and dispel information that is attacking in nature. People are inherently good, in my opinion, but utter and grave ignorance causes some people to be negative in their analysis or evaluation of matters. It is imperative that the mission and vision be clearly stated on the website as a link or in full display. Keep up the good work Eric and hopefully we can all continue to enjoy the fruits of you and your associates labor in good, clean, fun atmosphere on the internet.

A "sports park" is at bare minimum a high school track and field (in the US at least). Every US school with an athletic team has acessability to these resources.

Since the TB sports park would function as a resource to the school, community, and others it would only do justice to make something good and lasting. you know, "one of this size and scope".

the focus should be on the positives and negatives of THE PROJECT not on the ideas posted here by other bloggers of TB.net. this should not be a debate over who is being served first or at what table. evryone will be served in time. A bridge is a capital that pays for itself over time, and business diversity provides economical stability. These are two facts to consider when analysing the mundane side of this project.

ANYTHING can be a success if it's in the hands of the right people. What is defined as success depends on the output of benefits to the whole. The right people may not be the politicians (the world knows jamaican curruption), but they are unfortunately the ones in control. Community leaders are the liasons between the PEOPLE and the gov't- the ones that will bring the resources. What do you define as a leader? Are you providing jobs and opportunities so that the people can eat? are you affecting better change and progress to the community? or are you inhibiting it? what has been your contribution to making TB better? Any democracy done right gives the power to the people. The last time I checked, jamaica was a democracy. Jamaican curruption has inhibited the progress of most of jamaica, but look at TB. TB's uniquness lies in the progressive, independent nature of its residents. It has grown mainly in part because of community organizations that brought these change. The idea is organization and every organization's strength lies in the leadership. Learning how to milk these ignoble politicians is the key, and milking them means understanding them and working with them to SEE THE LIGHT.

Here's a picture of the "Treasure Beach Community Center and Sports Field" which is on display in the Breds office in Kingfisher Plaza.

NOTE: As stated in a previous message, this is not the final version. Its merely the first draft of possibilities.

What is not clear is what the 1:1500 scale represents. Can anyone provide the units?



(and we assume that it's supposed to be "soccer" field, not "soccor")

Thanks for posting the diagram of this ambitious project. Based upon it, I have some questions. (And, though I have included my e-mail address, I am hoping that Eric from BREDS will answer them on TB.net.)

* It appears that there is just one restroom, and that is inside the locker rooms. Will there be restrooms available for persons other than sports teams to use -- for instance for people using the picnic area (which is not adjacent to the locker room). If not, what facilities are others supposed to use?

* For what uses would parking for 400 vehicles be envisioned? I am guessing (but do not want to assume) they would primarily be for vehicles from outside the Treasure Beach area. Might there be island-wide sports matches held? Concerts? If so, who will take responsibility for crowd control and noise abatement?

* If there are "formal" events, who will be allowed/selected to supply food and drinks to the attendees?

* In terms of watching whatever "formal" events are held, what sort of seating will be built? And, out of what type of materials?

* What entity is supplying the funding for the ongoing operation of this facility? In order to do so, will the money have to be raised by renting out the facility and/or by holding such paid events as concerts?

* We are all painfully aware of the road situation in and near Treasure Beach. Is there any firm commitment from the government to make serious and sustained improvements to the roads prior to the opening of the facility? And, if construction vehicles cause damage to the roads, will these be repaired in a prompt manner?

Thanks for posting TBNet.

Is there a map indicating location?

I suggest for every tree removed at least one indigenous/endemic tree be replanted elsewhere.

There are many talented athletes that could benefit from such a development and it will inspire us to keep fit!

We humans are a part of the environment and sculpting the natural order is a skill that is
a challenge to our collective wisdom, common sense, cooperation and awareness of "All Our Relations".

Yes! I will take every opportunity to remind of the nearly forgotten gift of Stewardship of the Garden.

The Garden being "The Third Rock From The Sun".

i think this land should go to farming plant food and stop this dom park teach the kids to farm we need food life depend on it

Thanks for the sports-field plan.

The 1:1500 scale is a ratio--no units. 1 inch on the original drawing corresponds to 1500 inches on the ground, 1 cm to 1500 cm (15 m), etc. The size of the JPEG image on-screen will vary depending on monitor size and resolution, so this scale indication is not helpful. (On my screen the ratio seems to be about 1:3000.)

To appreciate the size of the project, note that a soccer field is about 100 m long.

I feel it is important to note that the plan on display is not the plan to be implemented. I have reprinted Jason Henzell's comments on the Sports Park below bolding his comments on the displayed plan:

"The vision for the sports park is that it will be similar to facilities offered in Barbados and the marine park which has just opened in Port Antonio. It will be a place which can be enjoyed by everyone: the local community, tourists, visiting sports teams ...


It is important to note that the plans on display in the BREDS office are only outline drawings based on the input of numerous interested parties. The fifteen acres we have at our disposal would not be able to accommodate a development as large as the plans suggest.

What is, in actual fact, intended, is a sports park which is similar in size to the Alpart Sports Ground. It will most certainly not be a massive concrete stadium, but a development which is sympathetic to the look and feel of Treasure Beach and the natural, unique, community-based tourism ideal which we offer.

The plans include a community centre, large children’s play area, a combined football and cricket field, a five-a-side football field, one netball court, one basketball court, one tennis court and a public swimming pool.

The pond would remain where it is and walking and running trails would be laid around it, with a BBQ area built around the trees. The whole emphasis is on making the park look as natural as possible and definitely not to have it develop as an ugly eyesore on the landscape.

The plans are for the stands to be built on the hill, with a total capacity for around 500 people. The parking area can easily accommodate visitors in such numbers.

As for the purchase of the land, this was funded by the Jamaican government, whilst BREDS funded the topographical survey. Private industry and various agencies are currently being approached for further funding.

The aim with this project is to develop a sports park which fits in with the ethos of Treasure Beach and which is a bonus to our community. It is not intended to be a wildly commercial development which flies in the face of everything we hold dear about this unique place on the south coast of Jamaica.

Your feedback and comments are crucial in enabling the progress of a sports park which is supported by us all. Alternatively, contact BREDS direct on info@breds.org."

I want to comment on two points:

1 - "It is important to note that the plans on display in the BREDS office are only outline drawings based on the input of numerous interested parties. The fifteen acres we have at our disposal would not be able to accommodate a development as large as the plans suggest."

Sounds like if you do the math you can be realistic in the dreaming, and in the complaining. From the various developments I've seen go down here in the US, it probably won't be as big a pain as expected, nor as big a profit center. The truth, as always, will probably fall somewhere in the middle.

2-"The aim with this project is to develop a sports park which fits in with the ethos of Treasure Beach and which is a bonus to our community."

You go, Treasure Beach. Your humble and true spirit and love for community will keep you on the right track and make you a brave example to the rest of the world. You need to keep asking the right questions about this project to make this right for you at this time.

The following information is provided by Marlon Moxam. Thanks Marlon for taking the time to send this to us.

From Marlon:

"I've attached some GIS imagery with some dimension that may be useful.

The dimension are in miles, and those are just approximated distances. The TB one would equate to 0.035 sqare mile or 22.4 acres. I included another one of a park nearby my home, and the total areas turned out to be 0.0199 sq. mi or 12.75 acres."

Pelham Sports Park


Site for TB Sports Park

Please be reminded that your comments will not be posted if you do not provide your email address. To Flotsam Jetsam and Confused. Please forward us your email addresses and we will post your messages.

Thanks.

Is that a new policy? I post all the whilw & never post my e-mail address.nurse ratchet

Hello, Eric. Thank you for your post. Curious: Why do you need my email address and what do you intend to do with it? The entry box below says an email address is optional. If you judged the content of my message worthy of posting, and not mere "rumors," how does having an email address attached to it make it any more worthy of posting? I am wondering: in forwarding all postings to Jason Henzell/BREDS, do you include the email addresses of the posters, or just the content of the posts? Why the special rule for Jason Henzell?

There are many thoughtful questions being raised about the proposed stadium, and we hope to read all of them, anonymous or not. Thank you.

We are asking for email addresses just for the posts regarding the sports park as BREDS has asked for feedback and comments. By providing your email address, BREDS would be able to contact you for further suggestions or follow-up.

This is not a 'special rule' but a way to pass on to BREDS suggestions and comments made on this site.

Is BREDS too busy to read this site and learn
about the comments themselves? Sorry, tb.net, but
this is awfully close to AT&T 'passing along'
phone numbers to the U.S. Government. It is indeed a special rule. Shame on you.

How disingenuous of you, Rebecca.

A response to some of the comments above:

1) We erred in saying that all emails will be forwarded to Breds. We should have said that leaving an email address will let Breds reply to your comments directly. We have not forwarded any postings to Breds. We simply wanted them to hear your comments and reply. Whether they do this or not is not up to us.

To be clear, TBNet is not affiliated with Breds beyond being active in the same community. (An additional disclosure: Our webmaster, Eric, does provide web space for Breds.org, but does not have control over the site's content). The Eric of Breds is a different person than the Eric of this web site.

Having said that, we are rescinding the requirement for an email address on postings here. We still believe that it lends credibility to your message if you identify yourself; if you feel strongly, stand up and be counted.

2) To those asking about the rumors/threats in the above messages...be aware that we did not post the messages containing them as they broke the guidelines. The messages posted above are within the guidelines.

3) Regarding the comments accusing Rebecca of being disingenuous:
First, the decisions made here are by both Eric and Rebecca. If you're going to call her out, call him out as well.

Secondly, the term disingenuous means "pretending that one knows less about something than one really does". This is simply not true; we have always tried to do what we felt was right and be open and public about it.

If the post were directed at someone else, we would not have approved it. But since we are 'in charge' here, we feel we need to be a little more open to criticism. Nothing disingenuous about that.


4) And finally, we would like to ask you all to step back for a second and consider what a balancing act running this Forum is. Weighing the "public's right to information" vs. the privacy and integrity of individuals, etc. is not an easy task. When this is combined with most people using pseudonyms, it often leaves the two of us as the only names for people to get angry at. Have you ever tried to please all of the people, all of the time? How did that work out for you?

How would you run things knowing that as you walk down the street people will give you an earful about something someone else (with a fake name!) posted?

-TBNet

"It is important to note that the plans on display in the BREDS office are only outline drawings based on the input of numerous interested parties. The fifteen acres we have at our disposal would not be able to accommodate a development as large as the plans suggest."
This is now getting to be so confusing. It would seem that based on the ideas from interested parties a plan was created that covered not only these ideas, but other external ideas that will not and can never be implemented but still got included anyway. Wow!

A lot of the comments that have been rejected were made because of the apparent secrecy behind this project. Secrecy breeds mistrust.The information that was filtered out was very sketchy. It came across(at least to me)that the formulators of this plan were determined to push whatever they had, regardless of what anyone felt; in other words they were asking for either blind trust or they did not give a damn. The question is, if the project is really a noble one, that aims to uplift the lifestyle and opportunities of the residents of TB, why was it presented as some tourism knock-off of something that they have in Barbados? And there seems to be such a big hurry to get something started. Can we at least finish Great Pond first? In any case, good luck to whoever ends up doing whatever. The residents of TB will be the winner, or the next such project just might be a little harder. Sorry, I don't need any communication with Breds. All my friends are fishermen.

Thanks to John for clearing up the indication of scale on the diagram of the sports arena, and to Karen for raising some good questions.

Here are further questions:

How many of the fifteen acres will be paved and/or concreted over for a swimming pool, netball court, basketball court, tennis court, parking, etc?

Have there been any hydrological studies that indicate what effect all that asphalt/cement might have on the drainage in the area? (Mother Nature doesn't take kindly to paving over her landscape.)

Since most of the year Treasure Beach is dry, and water a precious commodity to be carefully used and conserved, what will be the source of all that water required to keep those playing fields green? As we all know, lush green grass is not a happy species in Treasure Beach. Lush green grass is better suited to cooler, wetter climates.

Walking and running trails around the pond: Do the people of Treasure Beach now lack walking "trails" to get them to where they want to go? Or places where families can gather and barbeque things? Don't the people of Treasure Beach already have their yards where they get together, toss some fish or jerk on the grill, and party down, in intimate, friendly settings, appropriate to what BREDS calls the "ethos" of Treasure Beach?

The sports arena is called a "community center." What community-based, non-sports activities are intended for the "community center"?

BREDS informs us that there will be "stands built on the hill?" Will they be concrete?

In closing, BREDS says that the sports park is "supported by us all." And who are "us all"?

Rebecca - Many thanks for your post. I do not mean to belabor the point, but cannot BREDS read the comments and questions on the TB.net site, like the rest of us? I see no reason why comments and suggestions cannot be passed to BREDS whether or not BREDS is able to reply to them via email rather than on this Forum. Wouldn't it be better for all questions to be answered on this Forum, for all to see? What harm can come of that?

In his July 4 10:12 a.m. post, Eric (the Webmaster) said "We will not post any messages which contain rumor or threats" [regarding the proposed stadium]. Before the rule for stadium posts was put in place, where among the previous posts were there any threats? and weren't the posters asking questions in fact seeking to dispel or confirm "rumors"?

Bravo to Rebecca and Eric (the Webmaster) for performing an unbelievable public service with this Forum! This is the Forum where so many of us learn of news (both happy and sad). This is a Forum where people can pose questions and receive advice from others who are trying to be helpful. This is a Forum where people can post their photos for others to enjoy. This is a Forum where people find out how to help the community. This is a Forum where we can all read messages of inspiration.

And, for those who recall Hurricane Ivan, this Forum provided an invaluable "lifeline" for so many of us to be able to communicate, to be able to find out who was okay, to be able to pass messages, and to find out who needed help -- and how we could provide that help.

There must be guidelines for any Forum of this sort. Eric and Rebecca have wisely made some rules; and these amount to merely being polite. That is certainly not too much to ask of anyone, whether we are posting messages -- or passing them on the road. This is common courtesy. This is how civilized people act.

It is clear that one or more people associated with BREDS reads this Forum on a regular basis. It is my suggestion that we leave it up to them -- not to Eric and Rebecca -- to answer the questions about the Sports Complex that are posed here. And, it would be particularly useful if these answers were posted on TB.net, rather than e-mailed only to a few individuals. The more information we have, the less rumors there will be. It is not the job of TB.net to hunt for answers (even though they have gone out of their way to obtain information to share with all of us).

I cannot imagine how horrible I would feel if I were trying to perform a public service like TB.net -- and was receiving verbal abuse instead of thanks. If I were in that position, I would seriously consider quitting.

I may have missed this in one of the postings, but what about trash collection (and depositing of it) and recycling of trash? Are there specific plans for this and the kind of containers that vendors will use? As I am not familiar with trash collection/recycling in Jamaica, is recycling available for cardboard/paper/glass/tin? That always seems to be a big issue for any type of large event as they generate large amounts of trash. If I have missed this information in one of the previous postings, I apologize. Thanks!

The True Colors are now being displayed, this is not an err, and trying to explain is making it so wrong.

It reminds me of the episode at the Sandy Bank School recently when a member of the Resort groups address the Treasure beach Folks with Expletives,how rude.

I would like to remind you that your audience is not limited to Basic School Pupils.

I used to vacation in Negril. I began visiting treasure beach after browsing around after Hurricane Ivan and finding this website quite by accident. It (the website, and by extension TB) seemed real, human-scaled, and community oriented. Those who know me well know how unlikely it was for me to book a trip to a new place based on internet information. After all, I'm known as cheap and resistant to change in my personal life. I said before my first visit that either it will be a week of hell or a terrific vacation in the sort of place in which I really like to spend time. I've already booked my third trip.

I think the site is great and when I see TB folk all over the world able to communicate with one another and maintain a connection over long, and otherwise very expensive distances, I realize over and over what a service Rebecca, Eric, and their friends are providing. Ever Onward TB NET!

Every now and then a thread of discussion seems to arouse a lot of high emotions. To the extent it gives me insight into what the TB community feels strongly about, it's great. To the extent the discussions seem to be beating on one another or advancing unstated, perhaps personal agendas, it's less interesting. It took me a while to see "sports park" as being similar to US "athletic field." It's a bit hard to visualize it in TB, but I can't claim to know the area outside where I visit very well. I trust the community to make the best decisions for itself, if the community is put first. We're getting a Wal-Mart Superstore too near where I live. I'd gladly trade it for the biggest and worst sports park ever, but I don't live in TB, only visit. My best hope is for the TB community to make decisions in an open (we now say "transparent")manner, with all agendas and interests out on the table. Change (read: economic development)is inevitable and despite my resistance to it potentially broadly beneficial. But it can and must be controlled by the whole community for the good of all, not just for a few.

Finally, I recently came across the term "Halidon" or "Hally Doon" in a novel about Jamaica. It seems like a legend/monster. Any information?

A previous post, which we were unable to approve as it was not within the guidelines of this forum, asked the question, "Where are the answers from BREDS?"

Our suggestion is, while BREDS representatives are reading this thread, it may speed things up if someone were to compile a list of the questions presented here and email them directly to Breds at info@breds.org.

Has anyone emailed BREDS directly with their questions and concerns?

No. They read this, don't they? (We know they do.)

OK, back to square 1?

Whose vision was/is it?

Who is making the vision a reality?

Who takes final responsibility?

Who should be answering reasonable questions?

Now I sound like screech owl!

No more whooo for now.

Best wishes, turey.

The only responsibility to speed things up and be forthcoming about all the questions people have asked on this site about this project is that of BREDS. Jason emailed this site once a few years ago during a controversy to say he was not interested in being drawn into any cas-cas.
So much for the ethos of Treasure Beach.

More square 1 questions to add to the list:

Why is this project needed -- or wanted?

How does the Barbados sports program
serve as a paradigm for this project, since
the two don't at all seem to have anything in common?

If there is already a sports center
used by local/parish/BREDS teams in
Nain, 20 miles away, what advantages and
disadvantages are to be faced by this
competing project?

What are projected annual
revenues for usage fees
from out of area teams vs. maintenance costs
and repayment terms of the peppercorn mortgage
which has higher upfront repayment costs?

How many jobs are predicted to be created?
How will they be filled?

What outside vendors for food/drinks, transport,
lodging, maintenance, liability insurance,
promotion and security/policing will be used?

Are there viewable impact studies on infrastructure including roads, noise pollution, garbage collection, water usage, sewage, environmental impact?

If the scheme plans are conceptual plans only,
what and where are the real plans?

BREDS = Jason?

Click here to view the BREDS website for further information regarding BREDS.

Treasure Beach is a small town. Not even- it's a small village. In every small town or village gossip seems to dominate the bored and unproductive. Rational mature individuals should ignore the juvenile posts by possibly "mature" individuals. Nevertheless, it does make for a good laugh at their ignorence.

Hi Disapointed, village gossip is the old information tech.

It's usually not the content that indicates idleness but how it is spun.


If passed on as is, it is information. Sometimes trivial, ocassionally of importance to the community.

The published responses here show significant concern about some aspects of this development. Most seem reasonable.

Reasonable replies from those involved will certainly help to dampen any irrational or self serving spin which changes gossip to 'susu'.

I did not read the posts where Jason refered to his antipathy to 'cas cas'. If he means meaningless and emotionally charged exchanges, I see none of that here, just questions.

If he still shies away from participating here maybe another of the community leaders that sit on the board of BREDS would do so.

If the project happens, who does one go to with concens then?

Small village....Big heart!

As sited in the Observer article, the fact that NWA did not listen to local concerns
and did no environmental studies but just barged
ahead has direct relevance on any new project in Treasure Beach. So do today's Gleaner and Observer articles about the need for transparency in filling consultancies in the boondogle of the Sandals Whitehouse multi-million dollar overuns and the cry for punitive laws against those
who transgress by doing insider deals. It may be laughable to some who know how things run in Treasure Beach to read of others' real concerns. That is true ignorance and an arrogance which is truly disappointing.

Tanya Parchment = Jakes = Jason = BREDS

And Ron,

BREDS + Jakes - Tanya = ?

Yes Ron but who are the Community leaders that

BREDS website states are involved?

And pleeeese!

If anyone feels that unreasonable questions are being asked here or if anyone is being unfairly treated let it be known.

My 2 cents more.

If the minutes of the meeting held on Nov 26

2004 and posted by Beth were reposted here it

may help.

Seems Gov as owner, BREDS and a community org

are at the helm of this ship mateys!

Are the posters here part of the community

organisation that Jason refered to in the

meeting with Mr Bucanan and others so recorded?

If not, who are the members of this org?

As long as I choose to post under a pseudonym

I could not consider being part of such an org.

Thanks to the internet the mechanics of politics

is evolving towards a possibility of individuals

influencing group decisions by the use

of words published in cyberspace rather than

by means now well known.

This project is an opportunity for the Min to

adapt the vast existing goodwill and expertise

to assist in the cocreation of a human sculpted

space in harmony with "All my Relations".

Really! so what if the Min is not bound by law

to have environmental studies done. Is the

evidence not before us that CLEAN UP TIME has

come!

That goes for me first! and BREDS and TB and

Ja and Water Commision and all a Unnu!

Amen, turey.

I have heard many valid questions here. What do you, the people of Treasure Beach, WANT the ANSWERS to be? If people decide what is good, and let the community know, maybe it can happen.

Let me answer some of the questions here as an independent observer who was at the meeting held by Breds:
1.From the diagram posted the parking space is not 400 but 75(count them).
2. The land was leased to Breds not Jason
3. Restrooms will be there in the playing area and not only the major playing area/stands.
4. Food will be sold by the operators of the complex NOT vendors walking around. Although you cant stop them from hanging outside the property trying to sell their goods. (God forbid services)
5. Some corporate companies have pledged their support in constructing the complex/park.
6. Roads will be upgraded by the Parish Council.
7. Solid Waste Management System will be put in place.
8. No stage shows will be held there.
9. No night games.
10. Seating will be made of either board or aluminum
11. Again contact the Breds office for the answers to your questions.
12. Project will be done in phases.
13. Breds has Two staff members and Nine Directors drawn from across the Treasure Beach ommunity.
14. Dont curse Rebecca and Eric (Webmaster) about the project.
15. Water will be sourced from a well on the compound and used for the various purposes.
16. The diagrams are not cast in stone but will be reviewed based on feedback received from citizens.

Am sure Breds Representatives read the sites or they hear whats happening on this site. However, Breds is not obligated to answer any questions here. They however must answer the questions you send to them to their email address at info@breds.org.

Everyone in the community will have access to the compund. International teams will be invited to utilize it which will increase the sustainability.

Thank you very much Observer Reporter for your informative message. Could you post who the nine directors of BREDS are?

Rebecca,
In an email to Breds I was informed that there are Eight Directors (NOT NINE) who are Volunteers. They are not paid as Directors nor do they benefit financially from the fundraising activities held. All the income goes to projects within the community. BREDS - The Treasuure Beach Foundation is a non-profit organization.
The Directors are Jason Henzell (Chairman), Darin James (Vice Chairman), Sheila Hamilton, Norma Moxam, Celeste Anderson, Dennis Abrahams, Tanya Parchment-Brown and Maureen Powell.
With the exception of the Chairman, the Directors are neither hotel nor guest house nor villa operators.

Thank you!

Was it not James family land that the government bought for this project?

The Gleaner Reporter,
Yes the land was bought from the James' family estate.