Great Pond Canal

Treasure Beach Forum: TB Runnin's: Great Pond Canal
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 09:16 am: Edit Post

There is heavy equipment working on the canal to drain Great Pond. Does anyone have more specific information on exactly what's being done?

The picture below shows a large canal being dug near the TB Women's Group house on Old Wharf Road.
canalsmall
click for large image

TBNet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:59 am: Edit Post


Anyone collecting artifacts for the museums?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lizyboy on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 08:57 am: Edit Post

I don't have a clue; perhaps government is giving some cash to the big boys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Citizens Alert Group of TB on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 08:57 am: Edit Post

The Citizens Alert Group of Treasure Beach through their president George DeLeon on June 16 asked Senator Dr. Christopher Tufton to table the following questions in the Senate concerning the status of the Treasure Beach canal system. They are looking forward to answers coming soon.

1. Can the Minister indicate the timetable for the completion of the canal being constructed from the Great Pond to the sea in Great Bay, Treasure Beach in SW St. Elizabeth?

2. Can the Minister indicate who the contractors on this project are?

3. Can the Minister indicate if there are any built in safety features in the design and construction of the canal to protect the affected community against possible storm surges?

4. Can the Minister indicate if any environmental study has been conducted by the National Environmental Planning Agency (NEPA) to determine the environmental impact of this project?

5. Can the Minister indicate if any consultation has taken place between the relevant government agency and the local residence in the Great Bay community as to what is to be done?

Stephen Shaw of the National Works Agency (NWA) spoke to a group of citizens on Monday evening at the Sandy Bank School.

It was learned in the meeting that the NWA is undertaking the project directly which should allow for the allocated funds of $16 million to stretch further.

The anticipated completion of the project is set for some time in September.

The canal is 27 feet wide and varying heights from the pond to the road next to the TB Women's Group house. A box culvert bridge will be placed in the road and from there to the sea a large drainage pipe will be laid and then covered over. The canal and entrance and exit of the drainage pipe will be fenced in for safety. There will be safety doors put on the exit of the drainage pipe to protect against storm serges. The exit will be located just past Calabash Bay at the end of first road on the right as you enter Old Wharf Rd. This follows the natural drainage flow and the reef located there will protect against massive beach erosion.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sandy Tatum on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:01 am: Edit Post

Being very concerned by the canal and too anxious to wait for the NWA to answer technical questions, I have sought answers elsewhere. I share my findings below until such time as the NWA can give us technical reasons for the location, type of drainage chosen, and safety measures to be put in place.

Sources of the findings:
1/ A survey done in 1986 after the June flood of that year. This was commissioned by Alcan and conducted by one of Jamaica’s top geologists, Anthony Porter. This survey showed the pond to be 12 feet above sea level, and therefore it was concluded that a trench could be excavated to remove as much as 6 feet of water from the ponds. The trench was drawn as we see it today. This survey was obtained from the Citizens Alert Group of Treasure Beach.

2/ Though known to most as the manager of Gilpin Farms, Shalom Hodara owns a company called Jamaica Drip Irrigation. His company studies, calculates and provides for the movement of water.

3/ A visiting hydrologist, consulting at Alpart. Findings:
• This canal is an OVERFLOW mechanism, not a constant flow mechanism. Albeit large quantities of water will flow to the ocean during flood rains, it will only happen sporadically, given the desert climate of south St. Elizabeth.

• A canal of this size will accommodate the volume of water more effectively than large pipes. Pipes stand the risk of being blocked with large logs, and other floating debris etc.

• Visually appealing options could be considered, such as the use of Gabian Baskets (stone filled cages), elephant grass or other such soil retaining plants, (provided they could survive drought) to create the sides of the canal.

• Situating the outflow of a canal onto a rock face / reef, will minimize the erosion likely to occur if located elsewhere on a beach or in a sandy bay. The reef at the present site is above water, at low tide and still sea, and therefore does not sustain much marine life.

• Regardless of where the run off enters the ocean, contaminants such as fertilizers, pesticides etc. will be carried from the land. On a positive note, the ponds in this instance will actually act as a buffer – a sort of filtering system, unlike the more direct land to ocean canals and drains.

• Sadly, precious top soil will also be eroded from inland. Nowhere is this more evident than the Bay of Great Bay after a heavy rain. Great Bay does not have the benefit of the ponds filtering the run off and it becomes a literal mud pond. Within a couple of days, the bay returns to normal. It is assumed that this will also be so further along the coast, where dispersion will be even more rapid, given the rougher seas and unsheltered frontage of the canal location.

• Due to the storms of the last few years, our greatest concern should be protection from a storm surge. A surge would not only be catastrophic in the first instance, but the long term affect on the environment from the residual salt, would also be very detrimental to the ecosystem. In a telephone conversation subsequent to the meeting, Mr Shaw informed me there is a plan for a storm gate to be constructed. There will also be a filtering component closest to the intake section (pond) to prevent solid waste from entering the sea.

The village elders tell me that all ponds once flowed one to the other, finally exiting to the ocean by Frenchmans in the area known as “the creek”. Roads and buildings now impede this flow, causing the water to back up. Following nature’s course by reopening this channel may have been a safer option, given the gradient of the land as protection. Being a greater distance, it would have probably been a more expensive and time consuming option. Until we are better informed, I can only assume, this was why government did not opt for this. The current outflow area chosen for the present canal, was also once a drainage area.

In an ideal situation, this canal would be built and completed during dry and storm free months, in a location and manner acceptable to all, with safety of the community being given the utmost priority. This is not the situation. We now find our selves in a situation where time is of the essence. If, in fact, no changes will be entertained, then pressure must be brought to ensure a quick completion before we are fully into the worst part of the hurricane season.

Please note, these opinions were given without the knowledge of actual measurements which, hopefully, the NWA will have had and made more informed opinions based on the actual measurements/calculations not available to us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 01:00 pm: Edit Post


Thanks Sandy, I look forward to the culture of secrecy, silence and denial going the way of T Rex.

I heard about the old connection of the ponds too and thought how it was when the river flowed and according to Babu nearby, the crocs would bark early morning.

Yes I know I tend to romanticising!

Is it not the said 'romance' of TB that we love and that inspires visitors.

Best wishes turey.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M.R. Nicolaides-Moxam on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 03:57 pm: Edit Post

Does anyone know if this consturction is correlated to the athletic arena's development?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TB.Net on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 09:56 am: Edit Post

Thanks Nickell Hill for the following updated photos of the canal.

canal1

canal2

canal3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sweetlips/Lynnette on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:32 am: Edit Post

Great pictures, thanks for the update.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 08:06 am: Edit Post

Another article from the Observer:

Treasure Beach residents at odds over canal
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20060629T200000-0500_108064_OBS_TREASUR E_BEACH_RESIDENTS_AT_ODDS_OVER_CANAL_.asp


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 07:18 am: Edit Post

My question is this. Are they going to reinforce this canal with cement? All I can see happening over the years is that the walls of the canal will get eroded and eventually become blocked as the walls cave in. Then we're back to square one. Also, eventually grass and casha trees will start growing in the canal and we all know how good we are in Jamaica about keeping our drains and gullies clean. Just a thought from a non-engineer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nurse ratchet on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 07:52 am: Edit Post

A Todd, you raise some very good points.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M.R. Nicolaides-Moxam on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 09:36 pm: Edit Post

I heard that construction has been postponed because of the concerns from nearby residents and guest house owners? does any one know if this is valid?

It would really suck if dead cows were floating around on the beaches that I love so much. Funny though, i have never seen any in Great Pond or even the remains of them when it is dry through my binoculars from my kick ass view from the hill above Sandy Bank Primary. Another point: would you rather to struggle rebuilding your community and personal property after it has been washed away or would you like to provide OPPORTUNITIES for members of the community to maintain this canal? The point is clear- effort will be needed either on the individual or collectively through the community and gov't. Now I know it is not easy for every individual to buttress reconstruction, so maybe this is a good way to help those who can't.

A more global question would be: will this construction eliminate one problem, but create another? The answer would be: it would be worth it if the new problem would cost less. In this sense cost is defined both in capital and the exogenous factors like the environment, landscape beauty, peace of mind, lost valuables, lost work days, and other unwanted results. Engineering our environment is not so much different from designing an airplane or car. There is trial and error. By building this canal and creating a "new problem" we actually just reduced the overall cost of the "old problem". The "new problem" would be further refined by designing filtration systems and other environmental protection systems.

TB is lucky to be a developing community in a very developed world. Problems of greater feat have been solved much earlier in time, our patience and cooperation may bring some of these results to the community.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rebecca on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 08:28 am: Edit Post

The NWA representative Stephen Shaw stated in the community meeting held on June 26 that the construction has been stopped while they wait on the delivery of the box culvert bridge and while the government procures the land needed for the project. He was quite adamant in explaining the project will proceed as planned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 01:23 pm: Edit Post


The dehydrated remains of a few goats or sheep may be carried out to sea in the canal.

I don't think they will prove a problem or eyesore.

Anyone know about the freshwater turtles that are sometimes found in the pond?

The water lilies that grow there are rare if I remember correctly.

Two more attractions for nature lovers!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curious on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 06:17 am: Edit Post

I may have missed something, but is this canal completed? If not, exactly what is the status?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willow on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 11:29 am: Edit Post

For those of us who aren't in TB at present (and, sadly, won't be back for a while) could someone post a drawing or description of where the canal has been dug? Where does it pass, what properties does it run next to/through, where does it start and where will it spill out into the sea?

Thank you so much
Willow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Still Curious on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 09:22 am: Edit Post

What is the status of the canal? I heard is it still not completed because a landowner will not give permission to cross his property. Is this true? If so, whose land is this? And why would the canal have been started without first ascertaining that the entire route could be used for building?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By canada on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:27 pm: Edit Post

why can't they put the huge stainless trenches that are used in Canada and the USA in a new subdivsion, leaving the trench open is sloppy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MilwaukeeMike on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:53 pm: Edit Post

It's January now. Rebecca, when you're in the area, I'm curious as to what the canal looks like now; can you take a few pictures?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FOX on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 08:47 pm: Edit Post

This is as for back i go to show some history of a favourably support for the canal,i agree that its an eye sore and was poorly design ,but my question why did\nt more people voice their concern before it reach this far, maybe potted flowers on top of the concrete will help to reduce that image ,after all the Great Wall of China those attract alot of tourist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ashamed of NWA on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 08:06 am: Edit Post

FOX, I scrolled up to look at the photos taken in June of 2006. THAT WAS THREE YEARS AGO and the trenches had just been dug. If NWA had completed the project as planned they would have immediately lined the trench with cement to inhibit erosion and put in no return gates to prevent storm surge damage. When I see what three years of neglect has done it makes me want to cry. The walls of the canal have crumbled and mud is running into the sea destroying marine life and polluting Calabash Bay. In my opinion this was criminal behavior on the part of a government agency. No amount of flower pots will make this travesty right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Todd on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 07:16 am: Edit Post

I also looked back at my own post on July 4, 2006 and exactly what I predicted would happen did. Although I have to say, I'm happy that it has now virtually filled in, in places and that the acacia trees are growing back. Maybe if we wait long enough it will look like it did before this whole disaster started.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mrs. R on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 08:27 am: Edit Post

I am saddened by this canal mess.

I was initially in favor of it because I saw what family and friends went through with flooding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Priorities? on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 07:17 am: Edit Post

Mrs. R, you have hit upon one of the problems. You saw people in need because of the flooding, and you TRUSTED the proposed solution would stop the flooding. Now we have a canal that is beyond an eyesore, and no one can assure us the flooding problem will not continue. So we now have the original problem with another one on top of it. I see this as being similar to the sports park situation. Many of our youth have nothing to do and nowhere to go, so a sports park is going to be built, but no one can promise us this will not create a worse problem. Please do not regard me as cold-hearted because I truly feel our youth need a place to congregate and engage in something useful. However, no one seems to have proposed smaller sports areas put throughout the community. Even worse, no one seems to have questioned why we have so many youth with absolutely nothing to do but play sports. Many of them are school age but do not attend school. Many of them have attended school but are functionally illiterate. Are they going to be "playing" every day when they become adults? If they become fathers, how will they support their children without gainful employment?

Think exactly how much $2 million US could mean to our area schools and to an adult education and training program.

Many little ones cannot attend school because their families cannot afford to send them to the Basic or Primary schools, much less to high school. Or they attend for a few days and then they don't go to school for the next week or two. How can they learn with such poor attendance? Our schools do not have enough teachers. Our schools do not have the proper equipment to train our children to be able to learn enough to compete in the modern world. We are spending money for play before we are spending it for education.

Where are our priorities? What are we going to do with a generation of youth who are ill-equipped to get good jobs?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By To Priorities? on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 06:09 pm: Edit Post

Breds helps out with educational programs in the community, though that is not their primary focus. The community needs so many things including better roads, a better supply of dependable water, and so forth. No one organization can supply all we need, and we cannot reply upon the government or we'll all be old waiting to enough to happen. IF I got to vote - which I realize I cannot do - I would prefer our young people receive the best education possible no matter what it takes. To be honest, I am kind of ashamed of seeing 40 year old "boys" playing cricket during the work day because they are not able to get a decent job. There are only so many hotels and guest houses and villas, and the jobs there don't always pay so well and are sometimes seasonal. We all know how dangerous fishing is and how the seas are yielding less and less fish. Farming in TB is almost extinct in terms of being able to earn a living.
I would be embarrassed to know our youth can play soccer but can't read or do maths.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By More to Priorities on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 08:42 pm: Edit Post

What about computer knowledge? There are not many good jobs that don't require that, and I'm not even sure there is ONE computer attached to the Internet at Sandy Bank. Our children deserve a lot more if we want them to be able to compete AND win.