About technology

Treasure Beach Forum: TB Runnin's: About technology
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 06:19 pm: Edit Post

I know this is waaay off message, but its been on my mind and since Rebecca left me in charge of the site a few days, I thought I could sneak it in :-)

The gist of this message is to find out what others think about the new Macintosh mini that Apple introduced and if they think it might induce Windows users to switch.

I am a major computer geek. Started out on Commodores in the mid 80s, then switched to IBM/Windows in the late 80s, then became a Macintosh convert in the mid 90s. And I have never looked back.

So it was with great anticipation that I watched the MacWorld keynote address, traditionally the place that the CEO Steve jobs brings out their new goodies for the year. Boy, was this a good year for people like me.

Lots of cool stuff was introduced for sure, but what really got me was the Mac mini. Its a sub-$1000 (base model is $500) Macintosh with more processing power than my current Mac. And its about 10% bigger than 7 CD cases stacked up. That's 6.5 inches X 6.5 inches X 2.5 inches and weighs 2.5 pounds., people. It fits in your hands. Make that fits in one hand.

You don't get a display or a keyboard or a mouse with it. Just the computer itself and its power supply.

Here's Apple's web page on it: http://www.apple.com/macmini/

With these specs, its aimed squarely at what Apple calls the switchers, people who use a Windows machine but want to switch to Macintosh. Most anyone with a fairly modern computer already has a display and keyboard and mouse that will work on the Mac mini (its got the standard VGA/DVI and USB ports). All they have to do is remove the computer itself and plug eveything into the Mini.

But why switch? Seems to me there are 2 reasons:

1) The enormous amounts of viruses/worms/spyware that infects Windows. They simply are not a problem on Macs. This is for two reason: a) Macs have better security built in (its based on Unix and modifying the system requires password access) and b) the jerks who write those nasty programs simply don't target Mac's operating system

2) With 10 millions iPods sold, there are a lot of people who are seeing how elegant Apple's design is, both hardware and software. Lots of these people struggle with Windows everyday and see what a gap there is in the two company's products. And since Apple's new OS, called Tiger, is coming out this year, a full year or more ahead of Windows new OS (Longhorn), the gap is only going to get wider.

I know there are several arguments for NOT switching, but the only one that seemed to make sense to me had always been that Macs cost more. (Which was true, unless you compared what you got for the money. I challenge anyone to find a similar Windows machine with the same specs for the same money). But it was true that if all you had to spend was less than $1000, you were out of luck with regards to Apple. Now that's changed.

So what are your thoughts? Am I missing something by thinking a lot of Windows users are going to 'see the light'? Have you thought about it? What did you decide?

And if you'd like more info on why I changed from Windows to Macs 5 years ago, or info on how to switch, ask away.

All I ask is that we keep the conversation civil...no 'Macs/Windows is crap' or 'my computer rulez, yours sux' comments please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MilwaukeeMike on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 07:47 pm: Edit Post

2 years ago I would have agreed but Windows XP seems to have the bugs worked out of it as far as crashes; knock on wood they don't happen. I use a MailWasher system that checks my emal at the server so my McAfee Anti-Virus and and my firewall have yet to be tested in 2 years. I don't load a lot of programs but this is where Windows has the huge edge. There simply are not as many Mac programs out there. I realise that there would be if more folks bought a Mac. I considered the Mac two years ago but bought my factory returned Dell at a much better price than what I could get in a Mac. I'm very happy with it and still am pleased with my choice. I started with the Coleco Adam because of it's huge 64K hard drive!!!!! I've probably got more powerful watches than that. Do you still remember Fortran, COBOL and Basic? Ah those were the bad old days!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 09:16 pm: Edit Post

Mike, thanks for the input. You brought up two points of interest:

1) The number of programs available to each platform. This is the second argument that is valid in certain cases. If, for example, you need to run a program that monitors/controls a machine and it only available for one platform, you are out of luck. That's certainly true.

But if you're looking at the programs the vast majority (90% or more ?) of Windows people use, they're there for Mac. Office, web browsers, email, etc. Look at the switching going on from IE to ther browsers, namely Firefox. I use Safari 99% of the time and love it. The only time I use IE is when the site won't accept anything else, which is a good llustration of its (waning) dominance.

And Its pretty rare that a piece of hardware like a scanner or camera don't come with a Mac version.

As for the actual number of programs available, since Mac is based on Unix, there is a potential for surpassing Windows. All you need to do is compile any Unix program on the Mac. (OK, its a bit harder than that, but the point is that Unix is a ubiquitous OS like Windows.)

2) Price.
You got a returned Dell and are happy with it, which is great. Before the Mini, Apple probably could not have competed with that. But now I think they can.

The message I take away from your words is that those happy with theer Windows machines and know what they're doing with them (I'm willing to bet the majority of users aren't techie enough for firewalls and server-based email filters etc.) have no reason to switch. And fair enough.

So maybe the switching crowd will come from novices and those who've 'had it' with Windows.

As for the languages you mentioned, how about turtle graphics, Pascal and tape cassette drives :-)? Wow, far too many hours spent in the basement learning all that stuff as a kid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Siun on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 10:15 pm: Edit Post

Soon to be first time TB visitor chiming in ... Eric, I shared your excitement at the Expo announcements - my poor office had to listen to me ooohing and ahhhing over the Minis. (Then again, I also dream of having a MiniCooper car so there may be a theme here!)

I began as an Apple II person then a Mac fanatic (and worked in the Mac industry) before jobs at Windows based companies forced me to switch. For a while it certainly seemed, even to this true believer, that Apple had lost its way and that there was no good argument for Mac over Win. But ... that has certainly changed both for techies and regular users with the latest Mac products. While my office is still Windows based (XP), I'm lobbying for a shift if we every get the budget to replace machines ... now I can argue that Mac would be cheaper too!

My favorite argument for switching: When I got to buy a laptop for work, I bought a refurbished Powerbook since I would be the only user and could pick anything in a given price range. And that's when I discovered the wonders of the newest versions of Mac Mail - it's amazing at dealing with spam - our company is an internet news site so I routinely get 1000+ spam per day. We had tried every spam filter system out there (and invented a few I think!) and still I would have to sit each morning and wait .... wait....wait ... for the spam to get sorted out. When I decided to try MacMail (instead of the Mac version of Outlook) I just set it to auto-filter and figured I'd see what it could do ... end of spam problems! It labels junk accurately (none of that training it to recognize each of 1000 spoofed addresses!) and it's (as we used to say) "Blindingly fast" .... I'm never going back!

and now I better get back to my email so I can earn my airfare for my trip to TB!

(ps - my personal email is a .mac account - didn't want anyone to think I worked for them ... just a rededicated user who prefers their .mac setup over hotmail, etc)

chuckling ... haven't talked tech in a while ... thanks for the topic! (and I well remember Basic and Trash80s but never did FORTRAN ... always envied those "big iron" folks tho!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mac attack on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 06:34 am: Edit Post

I have decided that my next computer is going to be something...anything by Macintosh. Whether it's the mini or those stunning, gorgeous, sexy big fellas...I don't care. My choice is from a purely asthetic point of view. Besides I've had enough of this nonsense from Microsoft. I can't wait for this PC to collapse (again) so I can toss it in the lake and go with a Mac.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 08:37 pm: Edit Post

A friend who emailed me off line says that she would love to switch back to Mac, but living in Jamaica she doesn't know of anyone who could provide support for it if it did have a problem.

This is a valid concern, and another indicator of Windows market-share dominance. I think this will change with more and more purchases of Mac, which will make it more attractive for tech people to support it.

Of course, getting a PC fixed in JA is no picnic either...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jammin on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 09:04 am: Edit Post

Well Folks some of us have been around computers for awhile, and yes we do have quite a number of Engineers from the Treasure Beach area that help to evolve the Commodore Vic 20, the replacement for the Commodore 64, which was used primarily for gaming.

The mac as we know is a rebirth of those Technologies, (Radio Shack / Commodore) load a computer with the entire graphic engine available, and all will fall into place.
Mac today is playing catch up to IBM Based Pc.

The PC as we know it today is not manufactured by Microsoft. The most common Operating System used in Personal Computers (windows) is a Microsoft Product.
There are other operating systems available for the Personal pc, such Unix, Linux, Solaris.

The fact of the matter is Microsoft Operating system out sells all other Operating Systems combined, and when a Company like Microsoft has such a large market share on its product, they find themselves preyed upon by (wanna bees) unscrupulous people and entities.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:07 am: Edit Post

Jammin, I think some of your facts are wrong.

The Commodore 64 replaced the Vic 20. I do agree that the 64 was a great gaming machine for its time. Oh, my kingdom for a (working!) port of Jumpman to the Mac :-)
C64 info: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=98
V20 info: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=252

To say the Mac is a rebirth of the Radio Shack/ Commodore OS's is a misstatement. Those machines had command level prompts to deal with, much like DOS. True, the C 64C did ship with BeOS, but it never really took off and I haven't heard anything that makes me think it had an impact on todays OS's.

Mac's had everything done through a GUI (Graphic User Interface) ...which it borrowed/stole from Xerox. Apple's innovation here was to improve the GUI from the user-interface standpoint and make it the (eventual) industry standard method for OS interaction.

And as for Mac today is playing catch up to IBM Based Pc (meaning Windows, I assume)...If you take a look at the products both companies have produced over the years I think a clear trend of Mac as innovator, Windows as copier appears. Windows 1.0 was released in 1985, Macintosh System 1.0 in Jan. 1984 (remember the Superbowl commercial based on the novel '1984')? And Windows 3.1 was the first stable version on Windows that I know of, and it came out in 1991.

And that trend seems bound to continue if both companies ship their next version on time (Mac's Tiger first half of this year, Windows' Longhorn in 2006).

What you are 100% correct on is that the virus writers take their best shots against the big boy on the block, which at this time is Microsoft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Siun on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 07:22 pm: Edit Post

We used to proudly say;


Win3=Mac OS done with crayons!

In fact when I moved from a Mac storage company to work for a Windows database company (where the engineers found Windows so unworkable, they programmed everything in IBM's OS2 and then ported it!) I kept the above line as my screensaver ... The head of R&D immediately started inviting me to drink with the R&D team even though I was a dreaded "marketing" type ;->


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenifer on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 03:03 am: Edit Post

I agree Microsoft is nothing but a pain in the rear anymore. It seems like they even harass users! I am more than willing to look into something else the next time I buy.

My sister's computer (Windows) was hacked into a couple of weeks ago. They thought they had everything necessary to prevent that, WRONG! All of their files were stolen.

Hey Eric, what do you recommend for someone who needs a small, simple, and workable website?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 09:18 am: Edit Post

Jenifer:

What type of advice are you looking for when you say what do you recommend for someone who needs a small, simple, and workable website?

Do you mean what software can you use to make one? Lots of web hosts provide a 'template' that you can plug your text and pictures into. I've not used anything like this so I can't recommend one over the other, but a company I know called uplinkearth.com provides this service. I have no idea what they charge, how good it is, etc. Anybody else have companies/products they could recommend?

Or do you want to know what company you could hire to make one? Rebecca and I make sites large and small. Email webmaster@treasurebeach.net if you're interested. I can provide links if you'd like to see our other work besides TB.Net.

I'd be happy to expand on what's needed to get a site going if yu're interested, free of charge.

Good luck getting your site published.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenifer on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 12:25 am: Edit Post

Eric,

I meant to make my own website. I know a little about it but never actually published one.

I have to tell you, you and Rebecca have done a wonderful job at this site and I am sure you have on others as well. I have enjoyed visiting this site for a long time. Thanks so much!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 03:17 pm: Edit Post

Jennifer...if you'd like some advice on publishing a web site, just ask.

And thanks for the kinds words about TBNet. Good to know that our hard work is paying off.

-Eric