Hi.. I'm interested in purchasing property in the treasure beach area.. Was wondering what's involved and whats available.. Any advice would be wonderful.. Thank you in advance.. Melissa

I know of a beautiful 3 storey house/ land with a beautiful view of the beaches going for apprx 28 million Jamaican.

Hi BstnMel I was just in TB last week and looked at lots and lots of property. It's out there to be had but selecting the perfect spot is the hardest decision. The process is not that complicated once you find the piece you want. Your realator or even the person you purchase from can help you with the process. You probably need a trip by it's self just to look for the property and find your attorney/realator--not a vaction type trip more business in mind. Once you get out there and start looking around there will be people in the industry to help you through the process.

have you tried Baba ? you can find info on this page about him. Ring him and heŽll show you some beautiful lots on the hill and even on oceanfront.... depends all on how much you can spend......

Thank You all soo much.. Everyone has been soo helpful.. Melissa

You know, I have to say that it upsets me to see all these foreigners wanting to buy up all the land in Treasure Beach. I love to have the tourists in Treasure Beach but I think, like most Jamaicans, that when it's time to go...it's time to go. Most Jamaican's can't even afford to buy land down there anymore because the tourists have over inflated the price of land. What happens to our identity also when we become overrun by foreign ownership. I don't mean any disrespect to our visitors but you are changing our landscape minutely. I just look at how many postings there are about people wanting to buy land. We love that you love Treasure Beach so much, but can't you leave it for us so that we can walk the places we have walked for generations? Now everywhere you look, another wall goes up and another monster house clutters our coastline, most of which are owned by foreigners. I would be interested to know how many houses on the coast are now owned by non-Jamaican's. Thank you.

Concerned: I understand what you're saying, and even though I would like a place in TB myself, I would first like to see more Jamaicans own their own homes. Tell me what can be done to accomplish this? Are the prices already at the point of no return? If so wouldn't it be better to have someone living in your community that contributes on a personal and spiritual level as in a good neighbor, or wait til all the big hotels eventually purchase it and then what do you have? I ask this respectfully.

Interesting question. I hope someone can answer you. I think as far as Americans go, we've grown accustomed to the whole "melting pot" idea but I would imagine it's maddening to have tourists infiltrate your country, and never leave. Especially with the points you mentioned, about the land being so costly. What other issues are there about foreigners "moving in" are there, besides the land? I'm just curious because I am In love with Jamaica, and often daydream about one day spending most of my time there, but in the back of my head, I always think that It would be intrusive, and wear out a welcome. Is there a common ground that could be had? I'm glad you posed that question. (cuz I'd be to chicken to ask otherwise)

I have counted the properties listed on TB.Net for Jamaican or Foreign ownership and the numbers are 11 foreign owned and 22 Jamaican owned.

That's pretty high don't you think. One third or 33% of valuable beach front land is owned by foreigners.

As a visitor to TB, I am dismayed to see walls going up and land being sold to foreigners ,as well. I live on an Island in Western Canada, and am witnessing the same inflation of real estate as Americans ,Europeans and Japanese buy our prime areas .. The only way to stop this is to have a legislation that restricts foreign ownership, in many Asian countries, such as Thailand, 51% of the ownership must belong to national, therefore a partnership with a local either through marriage or business ensures the land stays belonging to a citizen. Since the laws permit foreign ownership, I too would prefer to see ecologically minded ,"real people" as new proprieters, as opposed to profit oriented companies. Many Blessing to Jamaica and all of its wonderful locals.

In Bermuda, where I lived for 17 years, there was a law that stated for foreign ownership, the land/house had to be sold for 30% more than the price for the local market. Also, this amount was taxed heavily. Very harsh, but due to the fact that it is such a small island - 22 square miles.

Treasure Beach is similiar because of the amount of land available to build on or buy is so limited right now. I love the idea of foreigners, anyone, coming to my country to add their special flavour and to invest, but at the same time...Treasure Beach is a very small area - and I do worry myself that I if I wait another year to buy land - there will not be any left, or it will be out of my price range!

I, like so many Jamaicans; have a love affair with Treasure Beach, a great part of all of our childhoods was spent there on weekends and holidays, and now as a returning resident to Mandeville - it would be nice to put down some roots for my children in the very magical place that I had when I was a child.

However, at the current prices and the way the land is being sold off, I am a little worried about the situation.

All of the above is said with respect and love...

For the record, not all the land owned by our advertisers is beach-front.

On the contrary, wages and guest tips paid to staffs at many Treasure Beach villas have allowed local staffs to buy their own pieces of land in Treasure Beach, finance vehicle purchases as well finance their children's schooling, converting earnings to vested local interest. It's hypocritical to say ' pull the drawbridges up ' when many local people actually see real benefits from their hard-earned work dollars.

I've read the posts with interest as I am a foreigner married to a local. I am as concerned as you all about a seeming trend away from Jamaican land ownership. I just want to add that when my husband sold a portion of his land to a close relative who has taken American citizenship he had to pay a higher tax on the sale than if he had sold to a Jamaican. So the law is in place already and also "foreign" ownership may be partly Jamaican-born ownership. But let all of us who love Treasure Beach keep up the debate as it is important

I am also married to a Jamaican. We bought our land and plan to build our home in the area that my husband is from. What we paid was very reasonable (through a very good friends uncle) We did pay more than a local friend paid on the same road. But, we did not over pay by any means.

We hope to eventually move back.

RE: Tiverton house's comments, I think you may have misunderstood, I don't think anyone is saying to pull the drawbridges up. I think the main concern is being taken over by foreigners (and that does not mean the U.S. only) - we all love for people to come and vacation in our country, just not to buy it up and become de majority. San Miguel de Alende in Mexico was once a nice place to visit and see the mexican way of life until it was taken up with canadians and americans, it now does not feel that you are in Mexico, but north america. Visit, appreciate, Vacate.

Tiverton House:

I am not saying that foreign ownership does not help a community - I am simply stating that as a Jamaican with close ties to Treasure Beach, it makes me sad to see most of the PRIME property/beachfront property being bought up by foreigners. It then pushes the prices up for Jamaicans to purchase.

I am not commenting on this site to start a fueled debate, I am simply stating how I feel, as a born Jamaican who would like to one day buy property over there...that is all. It is an observation.

So, if Butch Stewart wanted to buy land in TB, would he be considered a local or a foreigner?

WE RETURNED FROM TB LAST WEEK TO ENGLAND....I AM ENGLISH AND MY HUSBAND IS JAMAICAN BORN.WE HAVE FOUND A PIECE OF LAND WHICH WE WOULD LOVE TO BUY AND I READ ALL THE COMMENTS WITH INTEREST.THE ONLY THING IS WILL WE BE MADE TO FEEL UNWELCOME WHEN WE BUY..THIS HAS MADE ME VERY WARY.MY HUSBAND HAS ALWAYS WANTED TO COME HOME AND HAS FAMILY IN THE MANCHESTER AREA SO TB IS FAIRLY NEAR AND WE HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THE WHOLE ST.ELIZABETH PARISH AND NOW HAVE CLOSE FRIENDS THERE.I WOULD NEVER WANT TO RUIN THE LOOK OF TB AND CERTAINLY WOULD NEVER BUILD SOME MONSTROSITY SUCH AS YOU SEE ALL DOWN THE COAST BUT SURELY IT'S BETTER TO HAVE FOREIGNERS OWNING SMALL PROPERTIES IN THE AREA,CONTRIBUTING TO THE LOCAL ECONOMY THAN LARGE AMERICAN HOTELIERS COMING IN AND OPENING UP LARGE,UGLY 'ALL INCLUSIVES' WHERE THE GUESTS ARE MADE TO FEEL TOO FRIGHTENED TO VENTURE OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY AND SPEND THEIR HARD EARNED DOLLARS OR POUNDS??

Well, your husband is Jamaican-born, correct?

That was my point.

As for big American hotels coming in to quaint- fishing-village Treasure Beach, trust me, we will FIGHT to stop that!!

Rebecca:


Could you please ask people who post to this site, not to use Capital letters, it is considered rude and looks like the person is "shouting" - I was always taught this.

Thanks,

Jeanine Tribley

For Brian:
Butch Stewart is Jamaican born with a foreign mentality.
And for Barbara, no-one is going to make you feel unwelcome. Treasure Beach is not about that. My initial point was...when is there too much foreign ownership? Like all society there is a very delicate balance. When a group of people become a majority, their ideas, beliefs, social structures etc become the norm and we lose our identity. There have been a lot of postings in the past where the very same visitors hope that Treasure Beach never changes. Well it already has. When Negril was just getting popular the foreign owners didn't like the fishermen because they made too much noise with their boats. I've heard of the same thing happening now in Treasure Beach. Everyone loves to take pictures of the canoes, but they don't want them waking up their guests. Like I said, we love the tourists but we really don't want them staying forever. I say this with the utmost respect.

By the way, I'm glad for a little interesting discussion finally, on this forum.

I hear where you're coming from, Concerned. Even "tourism" in its simplest form can alter the entire foundation of a community. I would imagine if the tourists never leave, eventually, there could be some "watering down" of the society's culture and customs. I understand Concerned's concerns :o) Very insightful discussion.

http://www.uneptie.org/pc/tourism/sust-tourism/soc-global.htm

http://www.uneptie.org/pc/tourism/sust-tourism/soc-drawbacks.htm

great thread guys, now this is a worthwhile topic. i feel that all people who love our island and are prepared to build a reasonable dwelling should have no problem, as long as they are able to "walk good" within the community they choose. however those of us that are trying to retain some semblance of bygone days in the tb area, will fight tooth and nail to keep out the big developers, local or foriegn the only differance between them is that its easier for a local, such as butch to purchase and build, although money talks, you dont see the spanish having any problems getting things done.
i say welcome to those that come with a pure heart

Funny how you want our visits and our money, but we have overwelcomed our stay and it is time to go, also alot of the new megga building are being built by Jamaicans.

I don't think the thread is concerned with the size of the buildings although that is something to consider. I think the discussion is regarding foreign ownership and the loss of our identity. If you takes places like Bristol in London or Scarborough in Toronto, the Jamaicans moved into a community and it lost it's own identity, and in a very negative way. San Miguel de Allende, as a previous poster stated, is overrun with American 'culture'. Treasure Beach is one of the few places in Jamaica that has a unique and special sense of self and does not pander to the foreign mind set (yet). Like the visitors that come, we don't want to see that change. I agree with the person who said that 33% is way too much foreign ownership. Think of about your home town or somewhere special to you and what you would feel if 33% of a totally foreign culture just came in. Don't you think it would put a strain on that society? This is a worthwhile discussion and I don't think it's meant to upset or alienate anyone.

Nige this sounds good to me. If/when I find my little house in Treasure Beach, I will do my best to be a contributing part of the community, and I will do my best to give to the community before that happens as well.

I understand Jamicans not wanting their community to become a melting pot, and would like to keep their culture and community as it is, this means dealing with tourists, tourist that are welcomed and treated very well.

However, the number one source of income in Jamaica is not tourism it is remmitance. That means Jamaicans traveling outside their country and sending money back home. Traveling to the countries these very tourist come from, to make a living, contributing to the tourist economys, the tourist culture, and buying homes abroad right next to a tourist neighbor. With all due respect this doesn't seem balanced, when some want to turn around and say we dont' want the tourist buying homes in our country.

I'm curious is the land not being offered for sale by Jamaicans,and is the price not set by Jamaicans.If so don't you think that Jamaicans must take some of the responsibilty for the changes that take place around them.

Curious makes a good point. Foreigners can not buy what is not offered for sale. If a jamaican must sell, there are ways to try to sell to other Jamaicans. It is wrong to assume that there are no Jamaicans with money. Plenty of Jamaicans have become prosperous living both abroad and at home.

I agree with Curious. Why is the land being sold? It is the Jamaican people who are selling to foreigners. Who has the most greed, the one selling to the foreigners for a high price or the foreigner buying? Sounds as though what is being feared and what is actually happening is TB being literally "sold out" by its own people. Put the blame where it belongs.

I must say though, I can understand TB residents not wanting the community to change. I agree with that, I don't want it to either.

What constitutes an 'outsider'? If someone came from Kingston (or even Southfield for that matter) and built properties of the type listed as unwanted in the above posts, how would that go over? What if someone who has lived in TB forever did so?

I agree that nothing big and out of character with TB should be built. I feel what is built is more important that who builds it.

Lynette:

It is not that we do not want tourists buying land and homes in our 'country'. I never stated "our country" - my point was that it is a shame when you look at an area as 'small' as Treasure Beach and see so MUCH of it being sold off to foreigners, therefore pushing the prices up for locals who may have a dream to buy a piece of land in THAT particular area one day in the future.

It is just a natural reaction, when you look around and see how many requests are coming in each and everyday through this website and by e-mail, re: foreigners wanting to buy land in "Treasure Beach". Maybe I am just a little sensitive as I do not want too many BIG changes in one of the only unique areas left on our island that still has a sense of "old Jamaica"....we want something to stay true to what it is. Can it with this current trend? That is my question, really.

50 odd years ago, it was not uncommon in the States to have a "prohibition resale clause' in your deed. The prohibition was in effect a restriction against reselling to Blacks and Jews who would, it was feared, ruin the neighborhood.

Mandeville Girl I hear what you're saying. But it is your country/area, and your lovely Treasure Beach. Just like the central valley in California is my country/area. I don't know the answer to your question, wish I did. I do understand what you are saying because here in California it's getting too expensive for native Californians to live, a lot of Californians are moving out of state because they just can't afford to even purchase a home any longer, most can't even afford the rents at this point. In the Central valley where I live, 15 years ago it was mostly local people livig here and an average house was well under $100K with plenty to choose from, now there a entire subdivisions of nothing but "outsiders" "bayarea" etc people living and the average home costs $280K if you can even find one that cheap. The average rent is well over $1K per month! It's very sad to look around your little community you've grown up in and see nothing but new people, not many locals here anymore. I don't know what the answer in TB will be, but the answer you get here is "you can't fight progress" and that really sucks.

I tried to put myself in a local Jamaican's position, and if I saw the posts asking about property and I didn't have any myself, I would freak out, I would be afraid I would never be able to have a place myself. I'm sorry things are the way they are. But one thing that might ease your mind. I think a lot of people look for property in Jamaica but I would bet 99.9% of them don't make a purchase. The love of your beautiful community sets off a lot of dreams for people and they are just trying to live the dream, but most never will. Jamaican or Non-Jamaican.

Mandeville girl:
I hate to be the one to shatter your illuison but nothing stays the same.And do you really think the sense of "old Jamaica" that you speak of has anything to do with the land,I don't think so .It's the people in the community with valu's you respect that define the sense of "old Jamaica" just read the profiles and I think you will see what I mean.I don't see those same kind of valu's in the youth that are going to be deciding the future of TB.IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY

To 'Not who but what'.

For the sake of repetition, this thread is not about the 'type' or 'size' of the house, it's about foreign ownership and the effect on a culture and way of life. Jamaicans from Southfield, Kingston or 'Back a Wall' are still Jamaicans and share the same history and culture.

interestng forum. once someone buys land they are not "tourists" by definition, but i agree that how on flexes in the community determines who is a community member in the best sense and who is not. i bought a small piece of property in the area a few years ago partly because i could not afford to buy land here in america (madison, wisconsin). so some of the foreigners owning land are not that different from some jamacians who want a likkle land and a likkle house. the cost of living in ja may be what may eventually drives me away. as for the culture and the people, i love it and miss it and them. hello to the community and any one reading this. Brandy Gal

Hi
Just to apologise for using capitals...I didn't realise and it was a mistake.I wasn't intending to upset anyone..just making a point about something which was concerning me.Sorry to everyone.

what is the problem? the United States is built on "outsiders" immigrating and producing whether it is a house, a business or a family. I know and love many Jamaicans who have achieved so much in my country the US, and I hope the Jamaicans can love and respect the change. In addition, it is important to define the landscape as the community decides, but...do not refuse or not welcome change. It seems everytime I travel to JA which is at least 20 plus times, the natives continue to crave acceptance and respect from the world. It is one country that deserves it.

It's a very American attitude to think that what works for us, will work everywhere else. We are indeed a big ole' melting pot and true, this land was build with immigrants hands and I love it here in the States, but I don't want to see Jamaica to turn into "little America." Jamaica has it's own very interesting and tumultuous history that differs drastically from ours as do attitudes. I do agree that change is inevitable, and with proper managment, could maintain its "charm." For whomever commented on preserving culture starts at home, well, its hard to guide your youths when the lure of the all mighty dollar is much more enticing than the learning of family ways. The grass may seem very green on the other side of the fence.

(throws in 2 cents)

I think the post started out not about Jamaica but specifically Treasure Beach and the changes that have occurred. Changes can sometime be bad, so by itself a change does not have to be embraced. Who have benefitted most from the changes? Is it the newcomers or the natives?

I couldn't agree more Jack it's narrow minded people that make a beautiful place like JA ugly

I am not Jamaican. Nor am I married to a Jamaican.
I recently bought a small piece of land in TB.

This was NOT something *I* persued. It was offered to me. The price was right. I bought it.

My friend wanted me to have something there and be a part of the community, close to friends and family (his, he is married and we are JUST FRIENDS).
He found me an affordable property thru his family. We had offers from several other friends who had parcels they wanted to sell to us. Simply because they felt we would be a good fit into their little family neighborhood.

I was told that lots of people won't sell to someone they don't know for the simple fact that they are choosing their neighbors wisely.

I don't feel like I am intruding when I was invited.

it may be many American attitudes that what works for them will work for others but myself and many others disagree. But what does work for others, health care, dental care and education will always benefit. Americans travel to JA to help with these issues and are met with open arms. Not all of us want to build big hotels or malls, etc. We too want to keep JA beautiful and natural Once education is acheived than generations can dictate how they want to build JA, including preserving the land and beauty of the people. Thinking that all Americans are interested in building a little America misses the point. Build a Jamaica that can take care of it's own and share their culture with the world. peace.

Barbara, you should not have to apologize for using capitals. Your thoughts should not be censored or dictated to use a certain font or script. I read your message and because I am who I am I respected the content not the "appearance". I also did not assume that you were angry because you used capital letters. I could assume that your computer was broken and everything had to be written in capital letters. Relax and continue to contribute. It is important.

Barbara, I assumed your computer was broken and only typed capital letters. i did not assume because of your font that you were mad. You should continue to contribute in any font your want. Education and an open mind teaches us that appearance is ONLY APPEARANCE...WHAT'S ON THE INSIDE MATTERS.

I'm not sure if everyone knows that the editors of this website are not just Jamaicans. Some of them are expatriots. Maybe they don't want competition. They have decided to edit, delete, etc. messages that may not make them look good. But...they also have brought a wonderful resource to TB through this website. However not too many Jamaicans in TB have computers to read them. But we foreigners do. Think about it.

i'm sure you are not intruding. and as i am from great bay, i would venture a guess that if someone from our district thought enough of you to want you as a part of the community, then, it is well deserved, because, as you said they are choosing, not only their neighbors, but also their kids and grandkids neighbors.
at this junture, i just want to say, that people coming to visit and live, are more than welcome in this area, its just that we all would like to find a way to open up to tourism, and at the same time maintain some semblance of the idylic setting that we all grew up with, and i dare say, that is what most are coming to find anyway, no hustle, just laid back.
maximum respect

Just as an FYI Ronald, there have been very few msgs. which have required editing or deleting since this new system has been put into place due to the respect given to the forum by it's participants.

I will not apologize for not printing messages containing name calling or finger pointing. I believe this thread is a perfect example of healthy conversation with persons voicing their opinions without becoming belligerent.

Glad to see a great discussion happening here again, I missed exchanges like this. As for me and my 2 cents. I think that if the respect for the culture and neighborhood is there, the ownership of the property is not a problem. I hope that someday I can have a very small home in Jamaica. I like to think I would be welcome. My friend Berry was not Jamaican and she certainly was loved by the community, she showed respect and she got the same.
I also want to say hello to Barbara and Nehru, I miss you guys!

Thanks Andi, but I cant take credit for the comments of the lady called Barbara who posted. We are obviously two of kind as we are both English women called Barbara married to Jamaicans. I think she said they hope to live in Treasure beach one day. So do I, I'll be there on Sunday to view the progress on our little house which we are calling Kanga Cottage. Best wishes to all who read and post on this forum.

Hi to Barbara Clarke
I am the other Barbara married to a Jamaican who definitely wants to live in Treasure Beach!Since we returned from TB I have had terrible trouble trying to find an English solicitor who will help us with the legalities involved with buying land in Jamaica...I wondered with your experience whether you could help?Or anyone else for that matter.Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am coming back in October.....Can't wait...wishing the time away as usual!Thankyou so much.
PS.Thanks to Jack and Danny for your comments about the capitals thing..I love this discussion and check in every week to read:all the way from rainy Manchester...makes me feel connected with a place I have fallen in love with!!

We appreciate all the viewpoints expressed within this thread, however, some of the postings are starting to cross over the guidelines established for fair and respectful messages. Please keep in mind when expressing opinions, one does not have to be accusatory to make a point.

Postive Jamaica, Positive Treasure Beach.

Dear Barbara Clarke,
I hope to see you in one of the most beautiful places to visit on earth "TREASURE BEACH JAMAICA". Danny

check it out http://www.jamaicans.com

Thanks lookey, link is very informative.
Chat room provided info on attractive fares to Ja.

To Barbara Clarke:
Nehru's nickname as a child makes for a neat house name! I love it and I am sure he does too. Have a great time when you visit. Love to both of you....

A couple things folks may want to consider.

First, if foreigners start buying up Treasure Beach, what will stop them from eventually selling to larger developers who will turn beautiful TB into just another resort area?

Second, I think the foreigners on here who are acting like it's no big deal to go buy up land in a rural area of another country are incredibly flippant. One TB native told me that the same land that was about $20,000 American 10 years ago was selling for about $100,000 American today - and from the people I met in Billy's Bay, I can't think of ANY who could afford to pay that much for land.

Western ownership doesn't just mean more westerners - it also means more stores, more noise, more traffic, more walls for "protection," more police, more "luxuries" that westerners start to miss when they move to less developed countries. Change might be inevitable, but communities should be smart about it. I think it would be absolutely sick for TB to become like Montego Bay or Ocho Rios. We've all seen what happens when outsiders buy up all the most beautiful land here in the states - as another poster said, in much of California, you'll pay $1000 a month for a nasty 1 bedroom apartment. This is the reality of what could happen. And once people allow it to happen, it's too late - you can't go back.

I say this AS a foreigner who is absolutely in love with TB and would die to live there - but also as a truthful friend of the people I met there who would hate to see it ruined.

You Will be assimilated! resistance is futile!
think that was a movie? --- Wrong! It is the new
world Order, Money rules,

Inact laws and variances now!! or the future of
your Children is lost, This unchecked development is a double edge sword !!!