I'm trying to explain to some guests who had walked the Pedro Hills why the birds they so admired and were told are diminishing are being shot for sport.

Their daughter watched as a large dove trying to escape the carnage and was shot down in escape. They could not understand why this was allowed so near to a village. They will not return.

Again, maybe the TPDCo or the Parish Council could explain what this has to do with Sustainable Tourism and Development.

I believe now is open season for hunting of those small gray birds?

The season is quite short and attracts regionals and nationals from all over the island, whom will pay money for permission to hunt on someone's property/land.

It has nothing to do with sustainable tourism. Its has to do with a tradition handed down by colonialists?

Can someone with more knowledge please offer some insight?

Worry about the men,women and children who are shot down for no good reason.My grandfather was shooting birds over 100yrs ago and they are still here. Apart from the sport, the birds are a delicacy.At least the birds have a sporting chance. There are tourists who enjoy bird shooting, and it is an activity which benefits communities including TB. Some people like fishing,same thing. If we were to cater to all the foibles of tourists we wouldn't do anything,including not swatting a fly!

I'll bet the guest have bird hunting season where they live. That seems a lame excuse not to return. Bet they return home during their hunting season

I have personally told birders from Kingston to stop firing their guns near any homes and people in Treasure Beach. I did this primarily to prevent the accidental shooting of a person. When they did not believe I would turn them in for what I believed to be illegal, I notified the owner of the establishment at which they were staying who then came down strongly on the men in question. I sincerely hope these birders never return to Treasure Beach. I am not keen on animal hunting, but I did what I did because I think it should be illegal to shoot a firearm in the vicinity of people, especially after drinking alcohol. If hunting when nearly drunk in a residential area is legal, then people who live in or visit Treasure Beach should be warned to take cover during open season.

I find nothing wrong with this if it is done in a controlled manner as it seems to be here. Controlled hunting is done in many countries.

We mustn't be too goody goody about this. Jamaican doves (peadove, baldpate, white wing, partridge etc.) have been legally shot over the Island for a long while. Like hunting for all wild edible game-birds the shooting thereof is carefully controlled. This is so in Jamaica and the season is a very short one and, so far, has not had a detrimental effect on the breeding population of indiginous doves.

I don't think, Cofused Host, that what you are talking about has anything to do with sustainable development as the dove population is being maintained by existing government legislation to control shooting.

If your angle is really about "anti blood sports" then this is another matter.

The ones on that so called sport are the LOCALS WITH MONEY, must of them, and it should not be allowed, does not do any good for tourism and development...NO TO BIRD HUNTING....

I have lived in TB for years and though this hunting is said to be "controlled", the poachers involved are killing more than the law allows for. I have been on these trips with "the rich men" from Kingston where they paid me to retrieve their birds. They do indeed fear the law as they were hiding the excess birds they killed, and were sending people back to the villa early with some of the birds so it would not appear to be as much. As for Spooky's comment about his grandfather, there were not as vigourous forms of hunting as we have today 100yrs ago. Also, there are ALOT more hunters in current times. The problem is not the hunting, it is the way in which it is NOT be regulated, and punishments not being handed out.

There are too many things needing to be regulated for us to be getting sanctimonious over birds. You have a beef with 'rich men'? A poor man ever employed you? Anyway you don't sound like a bird retriever to me,but the hunters are not poachers. Same thing with murderers, punishment is not being handed down, we not even catching them. We dissipate our time and energy pursuing all kinds of relatively frivolous things, while the country is 'going to hell in a hand basket'. As NAL says this is a crazy world!

Fine do it but not in a area were there are people, homes, I had them so closed to my place that the shot came on my roof, that could have been on a child not my roof, and police do nothing about it, so community have to stand and set LIMITS on were thay can do it, I will start making noise to scare the birds away, see how they like it. NO CONSIDERATION.

What are the laws regarding how close to homes people are allowed to fire their weapons at the birds? How many birds is a person allowed to kill each day?

I think that in this situation:
"A bird in the bush is worth more then a dead bird in a hand"
You will draw more tourists to watch "live" birds then hunters shooting them !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

The housekeepers in the villas hate to have to pluck the feathers from the little dead birds but they are afraid to refuse. I would love Treasure Beach to become a no hunting zone.

Laws re bird shooting:

Bird shooting may take place Saturdays from sunrise to 9.00 am and from 2.30 pm to sunset, and on Sundays from sunrise to 9.00 am. The season is August 20 to September 25.

The maximum number of game birds that may be hunted during each session is 20, including a maxiumum of 15 bald pate.

Under the Firearm Act, it is illegal to discharge a firearm within 40 feet of any public thoroughfare. I assume (but am not sure) this includes buildings. There is no specific regulation about distance specific to bird shooting.

To report incidents of illegal bird shooting, please call Yvette Strong at 478-7496 or Richard Nelson, 580-8081, both of NEPA. You may also call the NEPA hotline at 1-888-991-5005.

Diana from JET

Does this mean 80 birds per hunter per weekend is legal?

Saturday morning our rest after a hard week.

Are we to be awakened forcefully to the sound of gunshots in our hills by those that come from elsewhere to kill the birds we enjoy alive. Mike is right, they are worth more to us flying than plucked.

Enough is enough. These people would not tolerate this in their backyard! Why ours?

60 birds in total for the weekend is legal - 20 Saturday morning, 20 Saturday afternoon and 20 Sunday morning. No more than 15 bald pates each shoot, 45 in total for the weekend.

We are not hunters but many in Illinois and the US are. It is a tradition of sorts to many people. To ban a tradition because a few tourist strongly object is the path to making Treasure Beach a tourist trap rather than a multi-faceted community with tourism being just one of the many faces. We do agree the hunters should not endanger any person, Jamaican or tourist.

"Tradition" is a poor excuse to keep such a practice !!!!!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

I think the bird shooting season should be every two years instead of every year because they are not sticking to the quota. Nobody is monitoring them. The birds have other predators like mongooses, hawks and other birds and animals that will feed on the young birds and eggs. A storm or hurricane can destroy lots of birds too. After a hurricane birds should not be hunted for three years after.Instead we should have mongoose shooting season because the population is out of control.I remember as a young boy growing up in Treasure Beach people said "Fish caa finish!" Now you cannot get any off the shores of Jamaica.Now the same people are saying "Birds caa finish!" Where there is no vision the people perish!

I don't mean this to be oppositional Conserve, but is there really a mongoose problem in Treasure Beach? I've only seen one or two sneaking around throughout the years.

No mangoose problem in treasure beach, it is good to see a mangoose no and again they keep away snakes. They were brought to jamaica fr Africa to kill snakes.

Lighten up,it's a great sport, just like fishing tournaments & it helps the community with the guests and the exposure as a hunting area. let's find a subject worth serious discussion to ride.

Bird shooting should not be done every year, as birds need to reproduce, give them time, also the storms are hard on them, now the people too.
There are plente of MONGOOSE all over, you may not see them, but they are THERE, my back yard is full of holes, hope they eat the RATS, as they are not many snakes there, and live the turtles eggs along.

Well, "Ole School", I guess you haven't been in the woods for a long, long time.Mongooses don't really come around unless there is something like chickens, birds, eggs etc for them to feed on. If you are at home in your rocking chair it is highly unlikely you will see them esp if you have dogs.

The mongooses were brought to Jamaica to kill the snakes. There are still some snakes in Jamaica but not many. Mongooses eat bird eggs. Nothing seems to kill a mongoose except a car. It is bad enough the mongooses are eating so many bird eggs. The hunters don't need to kill the birds that live because we don't have enough birds.

Maybe the hunters could shoot the mongooses.

Don't forget the mongoose also eats sea turtle eggs

MJ you crack me up! I may be old but I do get around. I still contend that mongooses are rare. As for bird shooting, folks have been doing that for many many years and I haven't seen a shortage of birds. They come and go every season. So I don't see any harm in bagging a few in season. I think climate change poses more of a threat to their habitat than any high impact lead poisoning.

People before you advocate for killing mongoose you should be aware that mongoose don't climb trees, so he is not a threat to birds or their eggs, but he will eat turtle eggs. But the mongoose is the only wild beast we have, which can be spotted from time to time, and whereas he is not as graceful as the turtle, I would hate to see a campaign against the mongoose, which is not that plentiful anywhere. They also eat rats whose population is exploding and whose sizes are more like cats.

Yes, Mongoose are taken over down in Billy´s Bay by the beach

I've seen mongoose in Great Bay Hills and near the beach.

Mr Espeut, who introduced the mongoose, did so to control rats. It eats more than rats however.

http://mongoose.wsc.ma.edu/node/3

And the good old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUo2wS1vrY

Leave the Bird Shooters alone, let them have their very expensive fun. They come to Treasure Beach and they rent lots of villas for six weeks, they hire some 30 to 40 youngsters to pickup the birds. They pay them very good, they spend a lot of money in the area. They suply the youngsters with waterboots t-shirts, feed them well at bird bush, at Christmas and Easter they load up bags and bags of goodies and distribute to the families of these youngsters.
They gave a nice cheque to the Sports Park, they gave 12 water tanks (black drums) to 12 most needy family in Bluntas and Lewis Town, and I could say more. These youngsters would be very upset if they hear anyone say something negative about these people. Some of the boys are hired from as far back as June to bait up fields (feeding ground) of the birds.

Bowl, have you been there when there are shooting and you are having a cup of tea, not nice at all, and they do not bring so much MONEY in to the community, they are locals, so they pay very little for the service they get, and THEY, only come back to TB for birdshooting, must of THEM.
The BIG pictures is the area where these is done, they need to have consideration with the people living around there, my dogs get jumpy, I get jumpy, I know of a lot of people that would love to see them GO.,,

Hi Bowl not everyone need people shooting birds on there properties,they should have permits too much lickie lickie?

Hi Bowl,
Thanks for your update on the bird shooters,I am sure their kindness is greatly appreciated and very beneficial to many. I personally know that they are shooting on my land I don't want anymore bird
shooting there! I would appreciate any contact number you have so I can advise them that I will no longer allow bird shooting on that piece of land. These youngsters would be upset to the point that if you say no bird shooting on your land they would smash your place.This is why ME DON'T like hand me down. People have a right to choose no bird shooting on their land.

So sad... too bad! Mongoose will eat anything that's easy day or night. Asian Mongoose brought to Jamaica in 1800's to kill surgar cane rats yet found a menu that surpassed thier original intent. Eggs, fish, pets.. oh my! Yet as an original predator the crocodille is top.
I don't like rules & shooting animals for sport is shy... people living the life on thier lands without danger of shooting deserve respect.
I don't approve of guns! First they shoot for sport then they kill for greed. Makes no sense to me!

If all land owners say NO TO BIRD SHOOTING, they will not retaliate as easy, but we all need to stany strong against it. They need to go up to mountain areas, more secluded. If it has to be done at ALL.
If is my property, trust me I will find the way to stop it...set traps, dogs, make a lot of noise when they are going shooting, that will scare the birds away...I hope

Well Spooky Dude I do not know how you can come to the conclusion that I was not a bird retriever when I have no reason to lie. I retrieved birds for the few years I lived in Treasure Beach as a child. If you would like specifics I went with hunters staying at sparkling waters alongside the owner at the time. The hunting took place in the fields across from Ida and Ukey Hill's resident. The birds that were mostly killed were Pea Doves(not sure about the spelling)with a few bald plates. The hunter left easily having killed over 20 birds per hunter that each day. The birds would fly overhead in groups and they would fired their automated firearms into the group killing from 1 to 5 birds at a time on average. My brother and I would then leave the hunters side to go and retrieve the birds. The firing of the gun was done from atop high points along the hillside. Believe me, I know what hunting is about. I was even allowed to fire the gun just to see what it was like.

Spooky Dude? Why wouldn't you believe Coppa? [edited by TB.Net]