The Jamaica Environment Trust in collaboration with the Treasure Beach Turtle Group and the National Environment and Planning Agency with funding from the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica has been working with the Treasure Beach Turtle Group to monitor beaches in Treasure Beach.

One project output is the installation of a sign in the community. This sign will inform community members about the importance of sea turtles, the laws governing their protection in Jamaica and the penalties associated with their take/harassment. The sign will be installed in Billy's Bay. If funding allows we hope to include other beaches in Treasure Beach.

We thank the Treasure Beach Turtle Group for their great work with us on this project.

Is there a mailing address and phone number for the Turtle Group? A direct email?

Can't wait to hear Spooky Dude's comments on this one...

Just this glenn, I like the idea of a farm. That's a win win idea. The signs will just be eyesores, I am sure the communities are aware of the status of turtles.
How about a don't try to sell drugs to tourists sign. Tourists are a lot more important than turtles.

I think the signs are not a bad idea but i would have thought its common knowledge that you leave turtles alone! Tourists have their own mind and dont have to buy drugs! Pretty silly sign to have! However a sign warning of dangerous undercurrents in the water is needed in several spots.....would it be welcome if i had some made and took ithem over? I have been pondering this for a while since i helped save someone who was in trouble after swimming too far out and got caught by the currents. Turtles are amazing creatures and sacred, people should know its a criminal offence to endanger them in any way...

I am glad my mother taught me "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

I wish everyone's mother gave this lesson.

It always amazes me how there will be a critic of everything, no matter how positive.

Good work with Turtle protection, every positive action is bound to have some positive effect.

By the way Spooky Dude, most signs are informative and not always eyesores.

I think turtle signs would actually be real cool looking. It shows that the area has natural beauty and wild life, be it very delicate and fragile and not a tourist trap with jet skis etc.

You are wrong Me Dat,most signs become eyesores after a while. If every activist group was to have the bright idea of putting up signs,what do you think will happen? Sometimes it pays to look a 'gift horse in the mouth.' By the way you didn't follow your mother's advice, what you insinuated wasn't nice! Positive depends on perspective, so what appears positive to you may be the opposite to me and vice versa. True about the positive action, but there could also be unintended negative effects.
glenn, sure they may be cool looking but then they could be not, and they might not show what you are assuming. What is important is that the programme is successful, no need to waste funds blowing our own trumpets.

Spooky Dude, what is the penalty under law for harming a sea turtle?

Diana from JET

Hi Spooky Dude, yes we disagree.

I am glad we can all express our opinions.

Don't mean to insult anyone, just observing how there is always a critic.

Diana I am not in a position to harm any turtle, but I believe there is a fine of $100,000. Pretty steep I should think. What do you think of the idea of a farm to aid in the conservation and also providing an income and enjoyment? With strictly enforced rules of course, as to what percentage is released back into the wild.

What penalty is ENFORCED when someone is caught harming a sea turtle?

My point is merely that the sign will inform of the penalties for harming a turtle - perhaps not everyone knows what they are.

I responded already to the question about the turtle farm.

Enforcement is clearly a problem as well.

Diana from JET

I am sorry but I don't see that response anywhere.If you cold point me to it I would be grateful.

$100,000 steep? You have got to be adding your dry humor here Spooky Dude. Let's toss out your idea of a turtle farm for a moment....Still steep? If so, I would like for you to do some reading abut sea turtles, the different species that Jamaica has, age of maturation and producing offspring, mortality rates etc. If you can educate yourself on the issue better, I am hopeful that your perspective changes. Of course, for all we know your perspective may just be a ploy at encouraging a debate. We are all getting to know you all too well Mr. Dude. Too steep? You are a funny man.

mnken...it's pretty steep when compared with the price of a human life..which in Jamaica is pretty cheap.
I am a utilitarian, if something is to be preserved for no practical reason except for scientists to study, and the ordinary man can make no use of it,I can't see what is the use of going to such lengths to preserve it. What is needed are good, practical arguments to convince persons that your aims are just and reasonable. If people are convinced there would be no need for these regulations, and fines. Too few of us want to control too many of us and rely too much on might rather than right. I have not seen the arguments for or against the farm idea, but I think that that could be a more equitable solution.

Anyway,mnken, I am not funny sir, I maybe comical,but definitely not funny! I tend to be skeptical,and I would encourage everyone to have a healthy supply of skepticism,always.

Many tourists do not know it is illegal to kill a sea turtle. They also do not know they should not buy turtle shell. I was offered some to buy years ago when I was very ignorant about sea turtles were endangered. If I had seen a sign telling me of this I would have gotten quite upset at the man who tried to sell me the shells.

OK Mr. Dude, again you get the head shaking. To follow your logic, if there is any species that humans cannot consume, then there is no need for their existance. After you read up about the sea turtles, I have another assignment for you... Read up on ecosystems and how species fit into the chain. [edited by TBNet]

What ? Turtles appart from being beautifull amazing creatures are part of nature and part of the eco system, without them the chain breaks and we just endanger more species , the world needs a balance of everything to work and continue, therefore all living things are sacred. Respect the world we live in
One love

Well to add my two cents. I was at home in Old Wharf this evening when one of the men working on the construction site called me. He told me that he saw some guys dragging something down the beach that he believed was a turtle. I raced down to the public beach in Old Wharf and there was a group of people clustered around something. I guess by the speed with which I drove up and the fact that I was running toward them, scared off the 'boys' that were there. You can not imagine my disgust at what I saw. They had trussed up a huge female with wire around her flippers and had dragged it on it's back over the coral shore from Tranquility Bay to Old Wharf. Luckily it was still alive and thanks to Nickel, Sheldon, Jason and some of their friends they untied it and released it. When you see this magnificent animal make it's way into the water to freedom you have to wonder what kind of person could bring themselves to slaughter it.

If anyone sees anyone disturbing a turtle nest or capturing a turtle please call me. If this leads to me catching them in the act, I will provide a $5000 dollar reward to the caller. I can be reached at 469-4828.

Even you spooooookydoooooood....

I noticed that there are a couple of well informed posters on this site who have decided not to respond to the Spookster. I will follow their cue.

And what is the penalty for the person captured? they will not be able to pay...they should clear overgrown properties as a penalty.

Thank you to the phone caller, Annabelle, Nickell, Sheldon and Jason for saving the life of this magnificent and endangered animal. So glad all of you were there and working as a team to act so quickly.

Thanks also given to JET as the caller, Nickell, and Sheldon have met with JET and/or attended the workshops provided by JET and thoroughly understand the need for preserving the sea turtles. In addition, Sheldon has been a part of the TB Sea Turtle/JET Project and has been walking the beach early every morning for the last 3 weeks recording track and nest sightings.

Education is the key to understanding!

Despite all the frustrations and sadness, the endless financial challenges, the not-so-infrequent abuse and attack, the posts by Annabelle and Rebecca are why we at JET continue to do the work we do. Why I personally still go to work every day. One female sea turtle swims free because local people cared and acted.

THANK YOU EVERYBODY! One one coco...

Diana from JET

Billy you are soo right and i think many would agree rather than respond to his comments maybe we are better to ignore them, he will get bored!

A. Todd you rock! I feel sometimes we need to put ourselves in harms way to protect a friend. Now everyones level of involvement or comfort of involvment is different. The construction workers level of involvement led to A. Todd, who showed her comfort of involvement. What gets lost in this inhumane act is the female turtle. How many creatures put themselves in an environment (land) where they have absolutly no defense at all just to lay eggs so her species can continue. My vote goes to the sea turtle as the ultimate mother of mothers...

billy old boy I dont know what logic would tell you that. The ones we don't consume we don't have to worry about them, nature takes care of those. The law of the jungle rules over those. Preys and predators. We are the top predator and we must know how to conserve, but a few people who claim to know everything are making rules for us idiots to follow. All I am saying is instead of the rules,make the case convincingly. I don't need to read up on anything, thank you. {edited by TBNet}

That is the problem here Mr. Dude. My feeling is we all need to read up on something or another. But not you, you do not need to read up on anything. {edited by TBNet}

Spooky Dude wrote, above in this thread:

"I am a utilitarian, if something is to be preserved for no practical reason except for scientists to study, and the ordinary man can make no use of it,I can't see what is the use of going to such lengths to preserve it."

If I understand him correctly, he is not only a fan of creationism, but also a fan of dominionism: the idea that man should have dominion over all other life on the planet. And so if sea turtles have no "utilitarian" use to the planet, or to us, and we can't "make use of [them], then why bother preserving them?

Well, we are fast destroying forms of life that inhabit this planet with us, are seeing the coral reefs dying and the fish populations diminishing, and every year, numbers of species on the planet disappear altogether. In doing all that, in fowling our own nest, in our arrogance, I guess we have proven our superiority over all the other creatures on earth.

Oy!

To SpookyDude... Some 'idiot' wrote a book of rules called the Bible which you seem to follow so avidly. If I'm to follow your sometimes skewed logic, is that not rules for "idiots'?

Ok then you should not have bothered to post that profound bit of news.
I am sure there are other magnificent animals which are slaughtered everyday. There is nothing special about a turtle, apart from the claim that they are endangered, like us. I guess this zeal makes one feel noble defending the defenseless,I only wish you would all feel the same concern about humans.
Even me the spookster! Bah! I just can't get over the irony of the situation.
Miss Todd the same person who catch fish and lobster, and butcher cows and kill chickens to provide food for us. They would not be some kind of monster on your say so.

If you, Mr. Dude see nothing special about a sea turtle I consider that a slap in Gods face that you profess to follow so devotely.

There is a huge difference between an animal that is raised en masse for human consumption to killing one which tops the endangered list. Your friends, the fishermen, here in Treasure Beach have seen a significant drop in their earning potential because there was no protection and no rules governing their catches. Now, the very 'man' that you think are so much more important than any other living creature is suffering financially because of the very same attitude you have. Even they have come to realize this {edited by TBNet}

That's quite comical Mr billy! Ha,ha, ha. Ms Todd, please don't get me wrong, am not against trying to protect any animal for the greater good, but there should be a balancing of scales. This almost fanatical zeal about animals juxtaposed with an apathy for the condition of our fellowman is strange.
I think the shrimp fishermen in Parottee,have something to do with the dwindling supply of fish as well. Those nets of theirs kill hundreds of young marine life every day.Now that in my opinion is something to campaign against most vigorously.
What about the farm, I still don't know what the conservationists think about it.

Easy on the guy A.Todd....As his mentor said: 'Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do'. I could come up with cliches here that would fit perfectly for the untrained mind, however they are sure to be edited!!

Annabelle, I wholeheartedly applaud what you Nickell, Jason, and Sheldon did. I will be glad to add to your "reward fund." My suspicion is that others will do the same. (Send me an e-mail, please.)

See the thread called "happy birthday JET" for what "the conservationists" think about turtle farms.

I regret to say I don't think there is much point in responding to your posts, Spooky Dude, so respectfully will not do so in future.

Diana from JET

TB.Net asked Diana McCaulay the following questions today. Why are the turtles (a) listed as endangered and (b) why are they an important part of the ecosystem? The following is her response.

You asked me to explain why it’s important to protect sea turtles, so here are the various reasons.

Marine (sea) turtles occur in tropical regions all over the world. All species are endangered everywhere and are protected by international laws and conventions, as well as different laws in different countries. The main international convention is the 1973 Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, or CITES, which deals with international trade in turtles and turtle products. In Jamaica, marine turtles are protected under our Endangered Species Act (for trade) and under our Wildlife Protection Act. The penalty for harming a sea turtle under our laws is a maximum fine of J$100,000 or imprisonment for up to one year.

Sea turtles are amazing creatures. They are reptiles, they breathe air (so they can drown just like us), they travel vast distances in the sea though the way they navigate is not fully understood. They are slow to reach sexual maturity and they are long lived – sometimes as much as 80 or 100 years - , they tend to return to the beach where they were born in order to nest. Male turtles do not come to shore, only the females crawl onto land to lay their eggs. Some species of turtle nest together in events called arribadas – we don’t have any of those types of turtle in Jamaica. Sea turtles can dive very deep – the maximum recorded depth for a sea turtle was a leatherback at 3280 feet. Green turtles can hold their breath for up to 5 hours and hawksbills for 45 minutes. People? Maybe a minute or two…

Turtles have been on earth for over 200 million years.

In the Caribbean, there used to be very large amounts of sea turtles and you can see this in some of the place names. Cayman, for example, was once call Las Tortugas because of the amount of turtles they had. Turtles began being harvested in unsustainable quantities at the time of European exploration – turtles would stay alive for a very long time on ships, so that sailors could have fresh meat. They continue to be killed out of ignorance as well as for food and for their eggs. There is no truth to beliefs that turtle eggs are good for long life or a good sex life. Other threats include: Being caught in fishing nets and being unable to surface to breathe. Some turtles may also mistake plastic bags floating in the water for jellyfish and eat them.

Marine turtles are keystone species in marine ecosystems. A keystone species is one that is so important that it plays a major role in determining the community structure of the ecosystem. Removal of a keystone species harms the entire system. To give two examples: Green turtles eat seagrass, so they function like a kind of lawnmower – they keep the grass blades new, short and easier to digest for the turtle. When there are no green turtles, the seagrass grows long and weak and breaks down more quickly – these longer, older less healthy grasses are not as effective at holding sand in place and also wash up as dead seagrass on beaches. If you are an older person, you might remember a time when there was not so much seagrass left on beaches after storms. Now there is a lot. It’s probably due to the lack of sea turtles grazing. Unhealthy sea grass beds also lead to beach erosion.

Another example: leatherback turtles eat jellyfish. Commercial fishers in the Atlantic have seen a dramatic increase in the number of jellyfish in the sea. Jellyfish feed on the larva of commercially important food fish, so more jellyfish means less larva, and less food fish. What is ironic about this is that it is commercial fishing that has greatly reduced leatherback populations, because of accidentally catching them in fishing nets, mentioned above.

To speak more personally now, I do not believe that we human beings have the right to exterminate entire species. I believe dominion means stewardship, not reckless annihilation. I believe we should live on earth in respectful harmony with other creatures – despite all our scientific knowledge, we do not know all that much about how the entire natural world works. There are too many cases to describe of people wiping out what seemed to be an unimportant species and facing all the unintended consequences afterwards.

For me, though, the reason why turtles should be protected is a matter of ethics, of morality – I am awed by their evolutionary history, by their natural history, by their grace in the water, by their determination to nest on land, to pass on their genes to the next generation, by their sheer majesty and beauty. I do not need any other reason to protect sea turtles, although I have tried to list the utilitarian ones.

In the end, we destroy what we do not understand at our peril. To simply capture a sea turtle for sport, for mythical beliefs, through carelessness and ignorance is indefensible in my opinion. To paraphrase someone else whose name escapes me right now, we humans are judged not just by what we create, but by what we refuse to destroy.

Diana McCaulay
Jamaica Environment Trust
T : 876-960-3693
F : 876-926-0212
E-mail: jamentrust@cwjamaica.com
Website: www.jamentrust.org

Thank you very much Diana for taking the time to give us such a thorough and informative answer. As stated previously education is the key to understanding.

As Karen Kennedy so kindly offered to add to the 'reward' for information on anyone harming the turtles or their nests, it led me wonder if anyone else would be interested as well. If so, you can drop me an email at lyricvilla@gmail.com. I will have flyers made and put around Treasure Beach. Any contribution, no matter how small, would go a long way.

Do you think that people, who otherwise would not harm a turtle, would start to harm turtles just to get the reward money?

Do you have to catch someone in the act of harming the turtles in order for the person to receive their reward?

Example: I "find" a turtle all mashed up and tethered. I come and get someone to rescue the turtle, then I say I saw some youth abusing the turtle. I get my reward money when all along it was me who did the damage.

Miss A. Todd, thank you for intervening that day and saving that turtle! 1 does make a difference and if more people followed your lead, think of the possibilities! Hooray to you.

Turtle Lover - I see the point you are trying to make and it's a valid one. In the scenario you present, the 'fake' caller would then have to have an accomplice and I'm sure that the accomplice being caught red handed isn't going to risk a 100,000 fine or 1 year in prison so his friend can get 5000.

Nor would I be paying someone who says that saw "some youth" who I can never catch or didn't see and has no name.

As I am from down here and know most people, I think I will know who is legit from who is not. Even more so...they will know it.

Just a follow up on the incident. I was down on the beach today and found a kit bag tied to the wire that was used to drag the turtle. I asked some of the 'youths' in the area if they recognized it and they did and after they heard what happened they even gave me a name and where he's from. I was very pleased to see how upset they were by it and how willing they were to give me the information. The guy is not from here but way up in the hills. I do think for the most part people from Treasure Beach are very conscious about these turtles and want to see them protected.

Now to find him.

I want to add my thanks to Annabelle and those that helped her save that turtle. In a late maturing species such as our hawksbill turtles, the loss of one adult female is a big loss. These turtles take about 30 years to reach maturity and start reproducing. Once mature, a female hawksbill will return to the area of her home beach to lay eggs 2-7 times during the nesting season and by the end will possibly have laid an average of about 700 eggs. Although they don't lay every year, the loss of one adult turtle is a big loss over a lifetime. This is most likely the biggest threat to our TB sea turtle population although habitat loss is also big in our area. In June I walked Calabash Beach looking for signs of nesting only to find that there is really no longer any good place for them to lay in that area. Almost every yard is fenced below the area where a turtle would have to lay to have the nest be above the high water mark. I wonder if it would not be possible for landowners to leave a gap at the bottom of their fences big enough to allow a turtle to pass through.

I suggest Miss Todd require the caller to name the person or persons who did awful things to the turtle.

Miss M. you asked me a question, I answered it, now you tell me that you will "respectfully" not respond to my posts. I asked you one question and you pointed me to a 'needle in a haystack'. That was the only response I sought from you {edited by TBNet}. The Parottee nets pose a real problem, yet you did not comment. I am sure my comments have done more for airing the issue of the turtles {edited by TBNet}.If you are so fond of these magnificent,graceful creatures, you should be interested in anything that will potentially increase their numbers, so it would be nice to know if there is any legal impediment to establishing a farm and if there are any material objections by the conservationists.

I'm with Dianna. I am choosing to not reply to Spooky Dude's comments either in this or any other message. I feel that they are meant to be intentionally argumentative and not informative.

Protection of such benign creatures as sea turtles, maintenance of nesting areas, ostracism of those who would harm or profit from them: this is one of those things that defines a caring community. It makes Treasure Beach even stronger and better. Great work, everyone.

I heard on the news yesterday that over 700 turtle nests were believed destroyed by hurricane Irene along the Florida Coast alone. Sad.

[Printed with permission from JET]

We received this letter from JET regarding the 2012 Annual general meeting of the wider caribbean sea turtle conservation network (WIDECAST) and want to share it. This web site and its readers provided financial support for JET to attend the meeting.

=====

2012 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE WIDER CARIBBEAN SEA TURTLE CONSERVATION NETWORK (WIDECAST)
Brief report from Christine O’Sullivan to
The Jamaica Environment Trust (JET)
March 2012

I saw a very nice thing in the report above saying "the remainder of the funds was provided by the Treasure Beach Villa Owners." Is there a formal Association of Villa Owners? Unless it is a confidential matter I think the villa owners who funded this should be mentioned and thanked because preserving the sea turtles is very important to all who love Treasure Beach.

I would also like to know this information.

I've emailed a rep from JET asking specifics. As soon as I receive the information I will let you know.

Thank-you Rebecca. Annabelle might be connected to raising this money because she does a lot of the saving the sea turtle work in Treasure Beach.

The Treasure Beach Turtle Group has done sea turtle nesting surveys in Treasure Beach for two nesting seasons and we are preparing to start on our third year. We had hoped to expand our surveys this year to include at least a 2 month survey of Old Wharf and Great Bay in order to get an updated idea of what is happening in that area. Do to lack of funding at this point, we will probably not been able to do that and have had to cut our original survey time in half too. If there is anyone out there who would be willing to help us out with survey costs this summer please get in touch. Survey season should start in June but unless we can get some help with funding to pay the local surveyers, we may have to put it off until July. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

How much to sponsor a local surveyer for a day?

Our surveyers get $1000 a day for which they walk the length of the beach that is assigned to them early every morning. If they find any turtle signs which might include adult tracks, a newly laid nest, a newly hatched nest or evidence of predation, they will fill out a data sheet which includes a GPS location. Along with lots of other information like egg to hatchling survival rates , the surveys let us know about how many turtles we have nesting on our TB beaches and just where the most important nesting beaches are.

FYI: JA$1000 is approximately US$11.60 at 86 to 1 exchange rate.

-TBNet

Thanks, a good basis for helping.

I've lost the contact for the Turtle Group, let me know by email or on this site. Thanks.

Turtle Group contact email is tbturtlegroup@yahoo.com

The Treasure Beach sponsors for JET's attendance at The Wider Caribbean Sea Turtle Conservation Network (WIDECAST)are the following:

Carl Hendriks - Driftwood Villa
Mark & Barbara Martin - Minerva Villa
Jason Henzell - Jakes Hotel
The Todd Family - Lyric Villa
Karen & Peter Kennedy - Rainbow Tree Villa and Rainbow Point Villa
Annabelle Todd
Eric & Rebecca - TreasureBeach.Net

Thanks to all who helped to make this possible!

Thanks Rebecca for posting the names of the villas who supported JET's turtle project and of course a big thank you to all the villa owners, without your support Christine would not have been able to attend the conference.

JET would also like to thank Annabelle Todd for spearheading this initiative on our behalf.

As a NGO, JET is always in need of support.

We've launched a new fundraising campaign this year with several initiatives including new levels of membership, each with a unique set of tokens of appreciation for our members.

We've also launched an ADOPT for JET programme,in which you may symbolically adopt a Jamaican animal (such as a Seat Turtle) or region. Your donation will be used in general support of JET's work.

Starting in 2012, it's easier than ever for you to pay your membership fees or make a donation because JET has partnered with Paymaster and the Ocean Foundation.

For more information please visit our Donate page:

http://www.jamentrust.org/how-you-can-help.html

The Turtle Group would also like to increase its' membership and by doing so would like to be better able to keep the local Treasure Beach Community informed about what is happening with the sea turtles using its' beaches in particular as well as in St. Elizabeth as a whole. There have already been a few turtles nesting this season but the numbers should be increasing until mid summer. It will take until the end of the year or later for all of them to hatch out. If there are any potential turtle supporters out there who would like to come out to look at our local survey beaches and talk a little turtle with us, we would be glad to give you a tour. If this might interest you, just send us an email at tbturtlegroup@yahoo.com and we will set up a time.