We were woken today by the annoying sound of pesticides being sprayed in the area. It has gone on non stop until now 12:52 PM. There is a high wind blowing.

Anyone doing this near any community anywhere in North America would be arrested. We wonder why this is allowed and what is being sprayed into the air?

We are moving out of this area as we are disgusted with this and cannot take the noise and poisined air.

"Anyone doing this near any community anywhere in North America would be arrested". You have to be kidding me. I live in Florida and the counties mosquito control programs and they goi into communities and spray chemicals. No wait they are spraying perfumes. That person spraying is a farmer who has a family to feed. I just love when people come to Jamaica and say X or Y doesn't happen in America. When I lived in Jamaica I use to hear people say there are no potholes on the roads (lie), Jamaica has the most corrupt politicians (lie) the US does. Reading the paper this morning and one of the featured story was a congressman owed US$117, 430 in child support. If you want to move that your decision like you said you are passing through let someone who lives there complain.

Agree 100% Doc...anything we see in Ja is here too!!!

The people in the area are afraid to say anything. Family? No one we spoke to likes the noise or the smell.

Are you saying that it is OK to spray poisons in Great Bay because a congresman owes child support and other bad practices elsewhere Doc? Sounds like you are dodging the issue and bringing up issues not related to what we brought up.

Malathion for mosquito control is one thing. Poisons for agricultural use are not allowed near communities. Yes, lawn and garden chemicals are unfortunate. Many communities have banned these.

The ignorance of the dangers to soil, water and people is a global one. Being a visitor does not exclude us from commenting on this issue.

Unless you prefer to bury your heads in the sand and be victims of fear and ignorance.

what happen when they use to send the plane from the usa to spray ganja ,did they take into consideration that they also spray the grass that the cow eat ,and we eat the beef from the cow.did they notify anyone of the kind of chemical they use .no one didnt get arrested for that.so you all can see the double standard.

THis has got to be the most inane response to a problem I have heard for a while. Criminals have the same excuse: "we haffi eat a food", guess what? your food!

Hope this works. This is an excellent documentary. Here's the trailer. Be patient; it takes a little while to load:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTcvO-o8NTA

So it's ok to poison the air, water and ground since others do it.

Pathetic.

Don't fight against each other, that's what politics has done to people for to long now. A farmer can see from others bad choices and choose to grow with out the man made poison's and stop the sickness from the food we eat. We need not look far to see and hear what is making us sick and its not just in the USA or JA. There's another way and its the old way. (I challenge), find out where and what those pesticides were derived from (that should stop your bickering) and make you run like lightening to safer ground. Here's a clue its Buried At Sea. When I found out I was scared and sick to my stomach, still am because it will take longer to get rid of than the time it took to realize we've been eating poison the last 60 years. Ganja is good for you don't believe the lies that's being spread by (Well U Know).

Please wake up: What is buried at sea? Please share it if you are not just trying to create a scare.
Every time someone takes the trouble to alert us of dangers we want to shoot the messenger and ignore the message. Some of the responses have been most ungracious and highlight once more the inconsistent application of the red ink.
Treasure Beach was never a farming community and now when most of the economy is tourism-based, we should not seek to ruin it by the spraying of pesticides so close to residences.. Here is where the greenhouse idea, which was rejected by some on this site not long ago, could make sense.

We have grass mulch Spooky, maybe small greenhouses would be useful to shelter seedlings from the sun. Trees do that. With the centralisation of biomass (material 'waste' from nature), mixed planting of crops that will provide appropriate nutrition, companion planting, composting of the biomass and the farmers shadow, the sun, soil and the creatures that live in it will provide healthy crops. Kill the creatures and you kill the soil.

Buy water if needed, as long as that does not wipe out profit if you intend to sell. Catchment in the rainy seasons will provide water if properly done. The old heads have much knowlege here.

Eventually our servants will listen more to the medical and biological reports than the MBA's and agrobusinesses (Livity under harsh manners for profit). They will have to if Sustainablity Jamaica 2030 has any real meaning.

Spraying pesticides imperils the land and water; thus us. We keep our yards and selves super clean, how come it's OK to foul the air we breath? In Great Bay or anywhere.

Hey Turey, I dont know what connection you have with TB and I dont always understand what you are saying,but I but I like to read your contributions.I hope you will share with those of us who dont know you how you come to be a part of this unique community.

How are you connected Spooky Dude?

My 'navel string' is buried there.Treasure Girl was the name of a bus when I was a young 'un in TB. I love TB more than any one I know, but unfortunately I can't be there right now, but hopefully soon. Are you in TB TG?

I am a born Kingstonian and JC old boy Spooky. I purchased land in Great Bay which I am currently developing in the way I have discussed here, slowly. I first came to TB with my Uncle, Jim 'Babba' Gore and my cousins in the early 60's and started to come back with my young family from the early 90's. My navel string was probably incinerated by the Nuttal Hospital. A great grandmother, Ellen Roberta Wynter, was from Parrotee. I'd like to know if anyone knows about the Wynters. I met some in Southfield, are any in Parotee?

Mr. Spooky Dude, pardon if you are not a male. I think you have flown passed your nest by asking Turey such a question. Turey is so vital to TBN.

I have lived in Treasure Beach many years.

One family member whose daughter had bad asthma farmed one of the family lots between two guesthouses and often sprayed weedkill and pesticides, often at sunrise while guests were in bed often while their bed-ridden grandparents slept next door or while my newborns were in their beds less than 100 feet away. This person was one of the more educated in the family who still upon being asked about it claimed "it's the only way you can get the crops to come." Ironically, they lost money overall and after less than about 5 years finally stopped trying to make money that way.

I find only small losses to pumpkin and cantelope but no problem with growing my callalloo, gungo beans and all manner of peas, tomato, corn, pineapple, turnips, mangos, cashews, pomegranites, cucumbers, sweet peppars, banana, plantain and so much more CHEMICAL FREE. In Treasure Beach.

Google Monsanto, find out about loss of heirloom seeds, read up on permaculture, there IS a better way.

Big up to you for moving from Great Bay, let the owners know why. Sometimes the only way to make things gwan in Jamaica is to pay some money or hold your money.

Thanks Lawyer. Don't mind reintroducing myself.

I'm sure TBN would continue without my rants.

Okay Spooky Dude, thanks, No I am not in Treasure Beach. I live in the states, but visit quite often. Your comments have been quite debatable, and analytical, which is unusual of a Jamaican born, muchless Treasure Beach own. I consider us to be humble and peaceful people, I guess the debates intrigue you.

Thanks for telling about your practical experiences with growing chemical free BTDT.

I and others fresh to working the soil have a lot to learn from those who have grown their own succesfully. No matter if you label the method organic, natural, chemical free, Ital etc, the intent is the same: A healthy soil for healthy bodies in a vibrant community.

I heard that! "Can't be done.....".

Why not?

Village Lawyer you assumed correctly that I am male but you inferred that I am a male bird by my flying past my nest. lol. Anyway I dont see any harm in asking and Turey had the option of not answering, but he did. Thanks Turey for answering, I hope to meet you one of these days.
TG yes I like to debate it keeps the brain sharp.Chit chat is nice but things which make one think are much more satisfying. I see my little post seem to have stirred some activity,that's good, I think.

And Turey, I met you over the Christmas holdays so discreetly. You look like one of us for sure. You're the blond, spooky dude the red head; interesting combination. Suh, Spooky why yuh so love fi fight and argue?

Check me when you come SD.

Buried At Sea is a documentary, I have been requesting that people try and get a copy. I am not trying to scare anyone only to bring more awareness of how things come to be. Monsanto and companies like it are out to take over the food that we grow. All the bombs and bullets are nothing compared to no food. No food no you no me. Imagine being arrested for planting your own food and some representative comes along and say's we own that and you don't have permission or the right to reproduce it. Companies like that have to be stopped. I could go on but it will only make me more angry and sad, I'm not here to be negative.
Love each other every day every where.

Yuh sure Lawyer?

Redman but grey head.

Spooky is helping us with brain plasticity. A great contribution. Sustainable too

Who,me? Fight and argue? No sir, I love discourse. You calling turey a spooky dude? Blond and red-head at the same time, that sounds spooky indeed.Happy Independence if it is possible.

Spooky and Turey, if you are interested in a copy of Buried At Sea. I would be happy to send.
My email is a1painters1@gmail.com.
Please leave your mailing address.
1Love

turey lawyer seems really mixed-up, may have been having a couple'a pints!

Spooky Dude is really Tureys alter ego. Can't you see that?

Thanks PWU, here is my email address:

tainocacique2004@yahoo.com

Watch it Bob...I am no one's alter ego.
Please wake up...I watched the documentary, but I am not convinced of its truthfulness...it sounds like a conspiracy theory,but I could be wrong. I hope I am not wrong.

As one may not be aware of an alter ego Bob, I'll wait until I meet Spooky. Then I'll know if he is another entity and not myself unconsciously playing another persona via the internet. At time of writing, I'm pretty sure that Spooky occupies another body.

Lawyer may have met said alter ego!?.......Whose? Spookies or mine? That is if any have manifested.

Tune in to hear more about this saga of confused identities and altered egoes.

turey, and Bob, I retract what I said about alter ego, as I have close friends and in that sense I could be someone's alter ego. However, Bob, no one can "see that" from this vantage point. Who to tell we may become alter egos if we meet, but I don't know about altering my what some people my consider my over-sized ego. LOL I should like to think my ego represents my level of self-esteem, rather than any over-blown feeling of self-importance.

Spooky may be confident, but he is not a Narcissist

Now I'm confused! So.....to spray or not to spray?

Right CMJ, spray what, where and why.

Aah turey, you ole wordsmith you. Seriously breds, it's never a perfect world: If we don't spray, then we run the risk of disease and epidemic. If we spray, we run the risk of slow poisoning. Miss Eena on "Dulcimena" would have said "what a condition"! Seems like a rock or a hard place to me.

The only diseases we use spraying to prevent are malaria and dengue John, malathion is used. The spraying in question is the application as a mist of chemicals as part of an agricultural plan.

1 Do the farmers know what they are using and the effects? Who instructs the farmers to use them? Do the manufacturers have any input in the agricultural plan?

2 Should any of these be inhaled by people or used near a community? Is there safe blood level of any of these chemicals?

3 Are there other ways to grow the crops that give acceptable results and assist in the enrichment of the soil and do not pose threats?

4 What are the chemicals currently being used? What are their effects on humans?

5 Is the financial balance sheet the only measure of success of a farmer?

6 Would you tolerate someone spraying an agricultural chemical near enough that you can smell it?

7 Is the spraying part of a sustainable development plan?

You just added more questions to mine t. I don't know anymore bro. I'm so convinced that we live in the "matrix" that I have lost track of what's real and what's not. I spend a lot of time in the Florida Keys and see the trucks coming around all the time blowing their puffs of smoke all over the place to kill the skitoes. They say it's safe but how can we be sure? That's the truth bredda t.

Ahh John, two paths: 1 Cyaan Bada

2 Not on my watch!

1 is easy.

No conspiracy involved and I know of only one documentary with that title so I assume that you were watching the same as I. As I choose to not buy what has been sprayed with toxins, there really isn't much I can do to get away from the fact that the soil and just about everything around is just that toxins.
That's not being negative just realistic, can it be cured ( how long does it take for Atomic and Nuclear pollution to go away) LOL

Regarding your two points t. It's not about cyaan bada when MOST people get their info through a mostly corporate controlled media. How in the world can the ordinary man in the Third World decipher truth when we are bombarded by Big Biz, Government, and the complicity of "journalists"? As for your second point, you can't get there if you can't get past the first. I can't help but wonder though, what it would be like in TB if we just let mosquito breeding simply go unchecked.

To Please Wake Up, if you don't believe there is any conspiracy, I think you should try pinching yourself to make sure you are awake. Btw, "The Matrix" is a movie series (Keanu Reeves), not a documentary, so we must be speaking of two different things.

To (call me John), yes we are. {edited by TBNet}
Keep it respectful. We can all learn from each other, just have to try.

We agree about the respectful stuff Please Wake Up. I can't imagine what TBNet edited since you seem like a cool poster to me. I love it whenever we agree to disagree. I often wonder about whom I'm communicating with on this site. Fact is you may be a close relative or friend. Imagine!

Call me John, what was edited wasn't bad. We very well could be related if you're from the TB area.

I do agree with you that if there is no spraying of mosquito there population could get out of control. It would be great if safer alternatives were being used and resident in targeted areas were notified ahead of time but that could take some time to be a reality. Respects John.

Now we're talking PWU; alternatives. I have a couple ideas but will do some fact checking before following up. I think this is a great forum for community affairs and solutions to be discussed. Let's use it for the greater good. Btw, I'm TB born and bred. Cool runnin's.

Get your point John. For anyone to have any real effect, it takes more time and focus than most of us have after taking care of necessities. Yea 'Cyaan Badda' may not be 'Doan Care', just overwhelmed.

Here is a good website on mosquito control.

http://www.mosquito.org/

Fogging with malathion and killing the adult mosquitos is one method. How many other insects are killed? Are some beneficial to us? What other methods could we be using?

In addition to Catnip, mentioned in the article turey, there are a variety of plants that can be used as natural mosquito repellant. Both Citonella Grass and Lemon Grass contain citronella oil used to make mosquito repellant candles. Also, Marigold flowers give off a strong scent which most insects, including mosquitos, find repellant. There are more but we could start with planting these around our yards. We'd be making the place beautiful while protecting ourselves and the environment at the same time.

For sure John. I'm sure there are many local plants that have properties of value to us as repellants and more. Thanks for reminding me to find some Marigolds.

Have we tried Baccilus Thuringiensis for mosquitos??

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/mosquito/documents/BacillusThuringiensisIsraelen sisNZ.pdf

To Please Wake Up, I recently found Buried At Sea at my library watched it and Holy [edited by TB.Net] is all I can say. How the human race will make it to the next century will be amazing and that's not because of what the documentary showed. Its all in such bad bad shape. The strong might survive but for how long.

I learned something about pesticides the other day, which I thought I would share. There are two kinds of bugs basically - critters that eat other bugs and bugs that eat plants. Generally, bugs that eat plants reproduce way more quickly than those that eat other bugs. When we spray, we kill all bugs, including those beneficial ones that are helping us by eating the bugs that eat our plants. And then the plant eaters get reestablished way quicker than the bug eaters, and without predators, the numbers of the plant eaters increase. So in a very real way, spraying causes an increase in pests... requiring more and more spraying, which also builds resistance in bugs. It's a vicious circle that has huge implications for human health as well...

I wonder if Evolution is really the unstoppable engine here. Seems to me whatever we do, we will eventually end up where we are going. It's like we try to prevent one thing and something else results. Then we try to mitigate that result and destroy something else instead. Perhaps it will only be the fittest of the fittest surviving after all.

And/Or those that minimise their exposure to the 'new' compounds produced mostly since World War 2, good genes and good luck John,

Those in communities that are strengthened by enlightened co-operation have a head start. Gotta get enlightened first!

Wasps were working on my old red corn stalks Diana. Doubt they would be there if the recommended chemistry was used.

And are your old red corn stalks more important than your lungs? Other organs? The health of those near to you?

Interesting posit Ms McCaulay: food or air. Of course the solution lies somewhere in between. The quest is that happy medium.

turey will you be in Jamdown end of year? We're still to meet over a cold one.

Ms. McCaulay: That was TUREY talking. I'm sure he meant that he'd miss the wasps if there had been spraying.

I'm convinced that the best way humans can help the earth is to stop procreating. The earth would get along just fine without us.

The wasps are probably there because the corn was not treated with pesticides, they seem to be eating smaller insects that may damage the plant. The wasps are thus a beneficial insect.

I did not use modern chemistry as I respect the health of my lungs and the heath of those near me.

Van yours is the clearest admission yet, that animals are more favoured than people, in some quarters.
If we all stop breeding and breathing we could save the planet!! Maybe that is what Jim Jones was trying to achieve.

I favor neither animals or humans. I admit nothing, merely assert a fact.

The planet does really not need saving,it will go on regardless: Regardless of heat, cold, ice, seas, gold,poetry,animals, us, you or I.

Jim Jones was a psychopath. He merely sought death for himself and the death of others to smooth his way. He had no higher calling and should be ignored as a metaphor.

Fact? Or an opinion. Anyway, I am with you, with or without us the planet will go on.
At first I thought you were indirectly advocating the extinction of the human specie.

Thanks for awarding me caps Van.

If our procreation resulted in individuals who practiced enlightened co-operation; the old Golden Rule that advises to do unto others...and understood their Real Capital is the air, earth, water, animals, plants and each other, there would be no population problem. Will such happen in time to enable the DNA of Homo Sapiens to continue to be a player? The alternatives are nasty.

Ants and flies are doing the cleaning of the corn leaves now and the pumpkins are looking powerful. The wasps may have been hurt by the suggestion they were doing harm and split, sensitive creatures.

Spooky, however one treats animals, so does one tend to treat other humans. Check it out.

Tury I don't agree with that, absolutely not. Some folks do treat animals and people badly, but some others would place the needs of animals above those of humans. To remark on that is not advocating cruel treatment of animals. There is a tendency to put animals on the same footing with humans and that is ridiculous. It has become almost a religion.

Indeed Spooky. My mom's cat accepts worship and devotion any day of the week. He gives his presence and petmed bills in return.

3:00am, restless, loaded with concerns, I'd go among my pack of mongrels get sympathy and be reminded of the importance of "Be Here Now". Never trained them. We understood and watched out for each other.

turey, I am not sure I grasp all of what you have said, but I gather you may be a Dog Whisperer or a Dr Dolittle. I have been known to converse with a few animals myself, but it's usually a monologue; which I used to have with my children until they began to realise that they were becoming adults. So now the monologue is suddenly a dialogue, which is not as easy as before. Therefore I will always, like you, have monologues with my mutt. The only time I have had any response was when I was boring him with the trials of dealing with teen-aged girls: he said "ruff,ruff". Now I am careful of what I say to him!!

On the topic of permaculture, has it been done it Treasure Beach or Jamaica?

I have not had training in Permaculture as taught by Bill Mollison and his crew Eco-Rock. I am inspired by their approaches to shelter, garden, power and water in design of a living area.

I would encourage anyone interested to check the Tagari store: http://www.tagari.com/store

I would also like to hear from anyone practicing or interested in this.

Hi Eco-Rock,

yes permaculture is practiced a bit in Jamaica.

Durgas Den in St.Ann is one site, also the Source Farm in St.Thomas. Have nuff rasta bredren in Jamaica who practice alot of its methods as a matter of their style of farming, not formal training.

You can see some examples of permaculture methods used in Treasure Beach and there is even going to be a permaculture design certification course taught in Treasure Beach next summer.