Are you raising goat with no land. Then guess what start rounding up your goats i can no longer pay !!! for the havoc they are causing me. Enough is ENOUGH!!!

I just accidentally hit the wrong button and the person's message which was queued here was deleted. Please resubmit the message and accept my apologies for the mistake.

According to the pottery barn rule, if you break it you own it. Also remember Pluto Shervington did sing dat "ram goat liver good fi mek mannish water". If you happen fi lick one pon di road, just buy a few pound o' rice an' everyting irie.

I often wondered how people knew who those goats that you see along the roadways belong to ?
Another "JAMAICAN" ting !! :>) :>) :>)
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

we need loxley.

Goats has always been a problem in TB from I was a little girl. I can remember when they were been killed just for entering on someones' property.

They would roam our land but my mom never ever hurt one. She would send her dog to chase them away.
Honestly they can be a nusance even to their own masters.

mikeymike

lol, in answer to your question, people know which goat belongs to which person much in the same way that they can tell whose car is comin down the road, before it gets within sight ;-)

thanks for the giggle

Goats do what they do, the owners that do not take responsibility for the damage of their animals are at the root of the situation.

RESPONSIBILITY that is the word, the owners of goats should have consideration and keep their goats in a corral, just like you should do with a dog. Very important.

I would like to make it clear from the very beginning, that I am only passing on information and asking each person to help in whatever way they wish. I am not inviting debate.
The Government of Jamaica needs to immediately cut back on the amount of imported mutton that is used for goat meat. 80% is imported and the country just does not have the foreign exchange. Hence, the Government of Jamaica is working along with the FAO of the United Nations and the Jamaica Goat Breeder's Association of which I am the Representative for St. Elizabeth to increase our goat population. St Elizabeth is one of the main goat rearing Parishes. Hence, there will be a significant increase in our goat population.
Unfortunately, most of our goats are reared by poor people who cannot afford land. In fact, the goat is known in Jamaica as the poor man's cow.
Instead of looking at the negative aspects, please try and look at the positive. Thankfully, this is all we have in Jamaica to create some problems. In other Countries, one has to contend with wild animals such as rabbits, squirrels, raccoons. etc. not to mention rabies that can kill people. These wild animals destroy plants and vegetables even in cities. Then there are foxes, skunks, porcupines, not to mention wolves, bears etc. When these animals have rabies, they actually seek out and attack children, adults and pets, as they cease to be afraid. FORTUNATELY, WE ONLY HAVE GOATS. AREN'T WE FORTUNATE!. YET WE HAVE THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN. ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS PROTECT ONE'S PROPERTY AS ONE HAS TO DO ABROAD. In fact, we are actively working on a law to this effect. This is already the case with cattle, horses, mules, donkeys and sheep.
Another reason why we should properly fence our properties, is to keep our dogs in, so that they do not bite children or animals outside our property. When dogs kill goats, the owners can retaliate by killing the dogs that have become predators and this sometimes creates great animosity. Can we not do without this and live as peaceably as possible?
We have to face reality. The goats are not going to go away. Why don't we start looking at the positive aspects of the goats. Most people agree, especially our tourists,that they create a beautiful ambiance. They slow down speeding vehicles, eat bush, thus eliminating hiding places for criminals, cleaning our road sides, helping to control our mosquitoes and saving us much needed foreign exchange.

And they made a very good CURRY !!!!!! :>) :>)
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

and with more goats, maybe we can get goat cheese and goat milk hopefully.

well said william finlason thank you.

The poor man's cow that makes us all poorer.

Genius.

Well William you obviously don't live in Treasure Beach...and you obviously don't know the cost of fencing.As soon as you catch one of these goats someone calls the police. If you complain about damages they will say that is not my goat. Well there are lot of goats in Treasure Beach running wild everyone should feel free to come and take one - I am sure the hospital could use some of these goat meat. No one owns Racoons. Squirrels and Bears they live in the wild.

There are lots of needy people in Jamaica! goats running around causing headaches to land owners!!!! instead of Tufton importing all that meat from abroad.. just come and get goats in Treasure Beach and donate it to the hospital in Black River. After all we are getting free medical thanks to the Government.

I would rather fence my land and home against goats any day over gunmen.
Most places are fenced anyway so why the big argument against?

I think I'm beginning to see the connection between goats, gunmen, hospitals and free medical care. BTW, I absolutely love curry goat, free or paid for.

The owner of goats should not retaliate when a dog or a person kills one of their goats if it is on private property, because they do kill your dog for that. They do a lot of damage. The goverment should also provide the fencing for these people.

Most people use their own land only for their livestock which includes fencing. Having animals roam is a bad idea for neighbors who might not want a fence.

I think I have a small problem with people on this website saying "come and get a goat" or even suggesting that its ok for a human being to kill a goat because its on your property which is not fenced. And even if it wasn't fenced, why in the world would you kill them? These goats are your neighbors. Not to mention they are trying to make a living. What has gotten into people? I think we need to fence our yards from neighbors like you.

"I think we need to fence our yards from neighbors like you."
Is this not considered a personal attack? Seems to be a double standard here TBNet. Please clarify your positon.

Not happy you don't get it so mi no have no more fi sey .Abroad soon as someone walks on your lawn it's a problem. who feels it knows it.The [edited by tb.Net] goat dem a problem.

Backative, I apologize for the oversight. We desperately need farmers in St. Elizabeth to go into producing goat milk and cheese. Among the goats being imported by the FAO are some milk animals. Nubians are great milk producers and we have an abundance in St. Elizabeth thanks to the efforts of the late great Glen Henry, the late Neville Gilpin, Mrs. Mae Gilpin and myself who imported stock over the years. Any farmer/s who wish to go into milk and cheese production will have the full support of the Government and the Jamaican Goat Farmers Association. Now is the time to do it!.
Frenchman, I suggest you do your proper research and think carefully before you write. When you write "everyone should feel free to take one", are you encouraging Crime i.e goat theft?

These goats are our neighbours!! Yes, so are some rats! A goat is one of the dumbest looking animal, but looks are deceiving, they seem to be getting smarter and smarterer!!

I am just a new person reading this, I would think this bulletin could be used for so much more good then the mud slinging that goes on here.
{edited by TBNet}
Everyone here should work together to make this community the best in Jamaica.

Lack of respect for one another and one another's property is a big challenge for us in Jamaica. Yet, we all hate to be disrespected or "dissed". The Member of Parliament for South Western St. Elisabeth should be respectfully addressed as The Honorable Dr. Christopher Tufton, M.P. and the Mayor as His Worship the Mayor, Councillor Jeremy Palmer, Attorney at Law. Remember, we have to teach and set a good example for the youth or we are to blame for their actions.
To clarify a point. The goats being imported are being paid for by a grant from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations who have seen fit to help Jamaica. Our Thanks to them and our Government who qualified to obtain it. Our Purebred bloodlines are currently depleted and we are beginning to interbreed, which leads to disaster. We desperately need new blood lines to keep the quality of our goats to the highest standards. Once again, I think we should Thank the FAO of the United Nations for recognizing this and coming to our aid.

A spookier dude used my name to write about double standards, but I tend to agree with that observation!
Goats are necessary but, man, are they annoying! Their constant whining is like that of spoilt children. Owners should be more considerate of their neighbours rights...even if they are goats!!

If you find something on the roadway, would it be theft if you take it? mmm..just wondering.

FRENCH MAN I WOULD LIKE TO KNO WHAT GOAT GOT TO DO WITH FREE MEDICAL..AND LET ME TELL EVERYONE THERE IS KNO FREE MEDICAL IN JAMAICA DON'T HAVE U MONEY AND SEE IF DOG NUH EAT U SUPER INSTEAD A GOAT

Ohh lord have mercy, here we go again! This is becoming annoying..."Goat fights people"??? Have we nothing else to talk about? Wow!

How about separating the sheep from the goats. The sheep would be the people suffering the inconvenience, and I suppose the goats are the neighbours with the pesky owners!!! LOL

Why is it that everytime someone starts a conversation, the people who have nothing to say get annoyed and criticize others who do? Just asking. Life is like that I suppose,there is room for everyone. Negative and positive need each other,and believe it or not, they are equally important.
The problem is not the goats, it is their owners.

Natural juices from the local/jamaican fruits and vegetables -- a big hit with me and other visitors; likewise local dairy. I had thought of "goat milk yoghurt," regular or frozen as a local treat. As a visitor, I'm not bothered by the roaming goats, though I can see why some in the community find them troubling. They all must belong to someone and must have their uses. Also, as a visitor, I love the chickens/roosters. I am much more bothered by loose,agressive and nighttime barking dogs. I never had a goat nip at me or try to stick their nose ....

On a hot June day
Far far away
I'm sitting here
Leaning back in my chair
Closing my eyes I'm back in TB
Lonesome little old me
My spirits soar
As I listen to the lazy roar
Of an outboard engine in the bay
Slowly drifting away
And wafting on the gentle breeze
I hear the distant bleat of
Oh my God!
A goat!!!!!

The last thing I wanted was debate. Sorry Treasure Girl. The last time there was a discussion about goats I ignored it to my personal detriment. Three of my imported purebred ram goats that never left my property, were poisoned on my property. Yes, a Government Vet did the autopsy. What a loss to our Country.
This time I am now the representative of St. Elizabeth for the Jamaica Goat Farmers Association and I have a duty to pass on information and to try my best to calm troubled waters.
Real Spooky D, To answer your question. The Government, through RADA, have registered most of the goat farmers and provided us with an official book for selling goats, in an effort to stop predial larceny. If anyone is caught by the police with a goat in their possession and cannot provide an official receipt showing ownership, they will be prosecuted. If anything does not belong to you, don't touch it. Safest Way!

For once i agree with spooky dude! Its not the goats who are the problem its their owners.

I'm sorry but quite frankly if you don't have the land to raise livestock - cattle, goats, pigs etc then you perhaps should venture into another business. With all due respect to Mr. Finlason, his goats roam from Fort Charles almost to Billy's Bay and if they get into your yard they will eat everything to the root. Why should I have to pay the cost of fencing to keep out someone else's animals.

No problem Mr Finlason, Your argument is quite informative, but I was actually talking about the "little non-sense" things, that seemed to always strike up lenghty debates...I am from Treasure Beach born and raised, and I think most of us have had goats that roam free in the hills of both Billys Bay,lower Frenchman Great
Bay etc. for years, which has been no problem until now, due to the new residence and up-graded guest houses and business..(life is too hard, please visitors and business owners have some understanding...one love..

No sah

I have been waiting for a personal attack, so I am not surprised. Fort Charles consists of over 3000 acres. I own several parcels of land in different parts of Fort Charles and I have been given the use of hundreds of acres by friends. I have two herdsmen who have been instructed to accompany any goats that we put on any portion of these lands. For your information, goats do not "eat everything to the root". There are many plants that goats do not even touch and, being browsers, they eat leaves off certain bushes and move on. As we speak, two huge pigs have been going up and down the road, tearing down my fences, causing havoc at night with my dogs and annoying my guests. I know the owners, but I have been unable to contact them. Should I klii these pigs? OF COURSE NOT.

Why don't we all "live and let live".

Mr. Finlason's goats are quite distinctive and are clearly his. I have never seen one of his goats roaming without supervision. I can not say that about the goats belonging to anyone else in the Treasure Beach area. Though I have chosen to fence in my property, I do not feel others should have to fence their property to keep animals belonging to others out of their yards. Just as Mr. Finlason does, I supervise my animals and do not allow them to roam.

Well I wont address all the different opinions on the goat issues.I did not think this topic would have gotten so much attention.Some of the comments are actually funny,
But the darn goats and their owners is a head ache.

The goats have kids/kid, some of the owners have not seen their goats in years - my goat has a kid and all at a sudden someone owns the kid, sells it and it causes confusion. Police gets involved makes bad neighbours!!! these goats are really annoying!!!!. There is no lack of respect for Mr.Tufton! however, your point is well taken. Mi hope the pig dem stop mash u fence. I am trying to figure out how to get rid of the [edited by TB.net] goats myself.

You are all familiar with the expression 'is you put yu goat mouth on me'. Does anyone know its origin? I think it has to do with the fact that many plants die once a goat starts to eat it, or its growth becomes stunted.
Roaming goats have always been a problem. Many cattle owners used to shoot them from time to time.They are one of the reasons that very little farming including what is called 'backyard farming' in urban areas, is ever done in TB. I remember as a kid the various frustrating attempts we made at planting fruit trees and flowers. Once a goat got a nibble that was it. Treasure Girl you are wrong, goats have ALWAYS been a problem to everyone except those who owned them.
Live and let live should not mean I have to put up with what is at best a nuisance.

Mr. Finason, more power to you and the goat farmers.Goat farming is a very imortant part of life in St. Elizabeth. It can only get better with scientic farming practices and other assistance to the farmers.The first pair of shoes I bought for myself came from one of the ram kids I sold from the first drop of the ewe kid I got from my mom.

Besides, most breeds of goats are very skilled in crossing the road,their manure is good for organic farming and their seeds roasted, was a threat back in the days; when the ram kids were castrated frequently.Who can forget that the goat skin makes a good drum ?

This is no goat mouth reasoning, they need to be secured, anyway.

baaaaaaaa!

I say if you don't like the goats you can move. Problem solved!

goats, goats and more goats, get your spicy curry and rice and you are good to go

The goats are my fault! I take the blame for everything here! This is becoming so unfair that me and my words are being picked on all the time. I am tempted to STOP posting on this site.

Do you know any goat jokes, lets have them now.

A man walks into a psychitrist office and said. 'Doctor I feel like I am a goat'
'How long have you been feeling like this?' asked the doctor. 'From I was a kid doctor,from I was a kid'

Someone is trying to discredit Spooky Dude, I did not post the comment prior to this one, about the goats being my fault.

Perhaps there are 2 Spooky Dudes? Like 2 Jims or Toms or Marys? Maybe he has a son with the same namesake who is followiing in Sir Spooky Dudes footsteps? Maybe he has an alter ego? Dual personalities? There has to be a logical answer.

There are lots of spooky dudes and dudesses but only one Spooky Dude!Boo, that is spooky!
Lighter Side here are two:
I drunken policeman stopped a truck carrying stolen animals and asked the driver "what have you got in your truck?" Before he could answer, a goat said "mee" and a sheep said "baa,baa" And the policeman said "oh yu lucky, ah did tink you was one a dem praedial licenists!"

A farmer tried to impress his city slicker cousin,so he told him his animals can talk.City slicker didnt believe of course, so the farmer took him to the pen and asked who is smarter a sheep or a goat? almost immediately a goat went "mee,mee" and the sheep said "Baa". So the slicker said "baa is not a response" and farmer said "dont you know anything? even sheep know that goats are not smart,that's why he said bah!"

These are original jokes(??) What do you think.

Sam Sung? or SOn of Sam one is a goat the other a sheep! baa! LOL

Maybe we need to have spooky dude 1,2 etc to solve the identity crisis. Barbers in TB look out, you may be the one they come after as a goat serial killer. As the song goes: "Barber kill me goat." LOL. Mr Fidlason how can I qualify for the foreign goats and what is the maximum I can get? Spooky Dude #1 and I have fenced in land enough to rear a decent herd.

I have taken note of all the comments over the past few weeks re goats in Treasure Beach. Hopefully, this will be my last comment. I would like to summarize
1. My Thanks to those who supported my thoughts and so encouraged me, on and off Treasure Beach.net.
2. One famous American President said "Ask not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country". Think carefully as to how this applies to our Country.
3. After Apartheid fell, Nelson Mandella warned his people "You will never be totally free until you learn to forgive". Think carefully as to how this applies to our Country.
4. Treasure Beach is the driest place in Jamaica. Great for tourism! Unfortunately, very few plants can withstand the long droughts, strong breeze and Sea Frost. Fishing the sea and raising the hardiest of livestock i.e. Goats, sheep and some types of cattle are the only things that can survive down here. THE WEATHER LEAVES US NO CHOICE!
5. My mother brought me to Treasure Beach in her womb, almost 70 years ago. My love affair with TB, it's sea, it's people,and i'ts way of life will cease when I die. Only the toughest of the tough can survive down here. Please do not try and change our Way of Life, after all, you obviously liked it or you wouldn't be here. Those of us that are here for "good" will strongly resist certain changes from those who are here for "goods".
All of us have to eat to live. The fisher folk and farmers who provide our food and keep us alive should be shown nothing but RESPECT! ALL OF US WOULD DIE IF IT WERE NOT FOR THEM.

Spooky dudes, The scheme with the FAO has been going on for the past two years and it is supposed to finish at the end of this month. Twelve Pilot sites and four Breeder Units were chosen around Jamaica in conjunction with the Jamaica Goat Farmers Association LTD. The foreign Purebred goats are all going to the four breeder units, people who have long experience in handling imported Purebreds. All are members of the Goat Breeders Assn.LTD who is handling the whole operation. The slaughter house will be at Bodles in St. Catherine and trucks belonging to the Assn. will buy goats from any farmer for slaughter.
The office for the Assn. is located at Denbeigh in Clarendon. Meat will be packaged under the Assn's. name. The Breeder and Pilot Units will supply goats to their Assn. for breeding and slaughter. Members of the Assn. can purchase breeding goats at reduced prices from the Assn. I trust this will give you an idea of the FAO's operation. The Government helped put everything together, donated the use of the slaughter house at Bodles, but the Jamaica Goat Farmers Assn. will be running the entire project.
Goat rearing is not as easy as one might think. Like any Livestock Operation you have to know what you are doing. New farmers can get information from Rada, the GFA, and other experienced goat farmers. I always suggest that one starts with the least expensive ewes of good quality and a better quality ram so that the kids will be upgraded. This way your losses as you learn will not put you out of business. Always try to get a better and better quality ram. Goats already acclimatized to your area are best. I will be happy to help if you wish to contact me personally.

If no one own up to any of these goats after they have done damages to properties then in all means catch them,sell them and enjoy the money.

I cannot see the law going against you for doing that.How can people expect to let their animals roam and do bad to peoples vegetations,or yet pee and poo all over the place and make it unbearable for business people to serve food in such deplorable unhealthy conditions.

Own up or loose out.

Mr Finlason, you seem to be well informed, an industrious fellow, and a gentleman. All that being said, the issue was originally about stray goats on the road. I know people who would like to plant hedges or flowers instead of putting up fences but can't do so because of these goats. This is just one example of the inconvenience. No amount of spin can change that.

Very good Spooky Dude. I am glad to know that you also have a lighter side. Life is too short for us to stress our selves out, over every little thing,after all this is only our temporary home. You all, including the Finlasons should try to build a permanent Garden in heaven.

Spooky Dude did not write that either. I do not have a lighter side.

The goats add a unique quality to the Treasure Beach scene...tourists like them, they provide food, farmers raise them...and I like to paint them!

spooky imposter, I,Sir Cyril de Spooky Dude, did write the piece to which Lighter side referred but I did not write the last comment before this!
The Garden was on earth, but the two-foot goats messed it up!! The four-footed ones will not permit any kind of gardening. I do like goats though...curried!
About the garden in heaven, I am looking forward to a mansion!!

To the real Spooky Dude, someone on here thinks its real funny to use your name, which is making you work overtime. Change your name to something else. {edited by TBNet}

Ciola: That goat looks to smart to be a goat...it looks like a sage with the Mona Lisa smile..reminds me of one of my aunts. You have either captured the essence of a goat or have a very romantic vision of what a goat should be. You may have spoiled my taste for curry-goat from now on! I think I will 'Snip' this picture into my album with pictures of TB.

Not Happy: I guess that someone is having a little fun..I think I know who and I will exact a lot of Red Stripes from him, right Bob!

Spooky how dare you blame bob! BTW, I will be in JA in a few weeks, and will allow the extraction regardless of your false claims. Hope to see you then. Don't forget your mask!

ciola,
I want this picture. Do you sell it?

Not Happy,Happy right now, do you also see some familial connection to this goat? We may be related!!
Bob,you are a gentleman,sir, as despite your plea of innocence you are willing to pay the tax!! I am looking forward to shooting the breeze over a few cold ones!

We may all be "old goats"....but yes, I do sell my paintings. Some of them are currently at the Treasure Hunt Craft Shop at the Woman's Center in Old Wharf. You can contact me via email about the goat painting - I will be back on island in September to continue my observation of goats.

'Not happy', how would you know it is a guy? You slipped up old chap, as this gives you away as the imposter! Stop it! Changing his name would not help, as it is what is written not the name.

My takes on this goats proplem if you do'nt have land to put them "on" you all should not own them?

ciola, how do I get your email address? And what is the cost of the goat picture and what size?

My email is sciola@earthlink.net. Prints are $30 and the original is quite a bit more. The size is approx 11 x 14. The original is at my studio/home in TB but I have prints here in Fla. Thank you for your interest.

Maybe time to bring the goat matter to ground. As a pickney in pre independence Jamaica no farm animals were permitted to roam - for obvious reasons. There were animal pounds in existence where straying animals were confined until the owner turned up and paid up to retrieve his wayward beast. I certainly know the Mandeville pound because my mother had to go there and retrieve one of her cows.

There exists still, I am certain , a bylaw dealing with stray animals, firmly placing responsibilty on the owner.

I seem to remember that goats and suchlike were allowed to graze off the roadside provided they were well tethered and clear of road traffic.

Now, many of you will remember the "mad cow" disease when the bottom fell out of the cattle market in Jamaica. Cows were just let loose everywhere. Some may also remember Dr Brown shooting 3 stary cows on TB Hotel land and, like me, were pretty shocked by such action. Dr Brown, under the Stray Animal bylaw, however, may have been fully within his rights to dispose of stray cows on his land in this manner.

So a stray law must exist - somewhere - but it has been allowed to lapse. Maybe Mr Tufton may care to do something about this?

WHY NOT HAVE A CURRY GOAT PARTY.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are all individuals with different likes and dislikes. To a person who loves bike, the sound of a bike is music to the ears. I hate the loud sound of a bike. I love the sound of a train. I love to hear the train blows at nights. Because we have our likes and dislikes, I think the goats should stay on their owner's property. We can put up with the odd time the goats may stray but not constantly on other people's property. After all, a man is king in his own castle and he should have the right not to have the goats on his property if he does not like it.

It should be a law, that if a goat goes on some ones yard, they can do with it what they want, just like with a chicken, then I think the owners will control their animals. Have manage water, curry goat or fry chicken....mmmmmmm

The fact is if a goat comes on your property you can take care of them. All this discussion amounts to nothing. If someone can raise their goat without land, then the person with land can take care of them how they want. Simple.

Realist = The Truth.

...not only that, lessons will be taught to our children that other people's things do not belong to them unless they are given permission to use the property. Tell the kids to keep the goats off others property. mmmmmmmh......