Jamaica' Gays Finding Refuge By Applying For U.S. Asylum
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/11/AR2011021106013_pf.html}

The poet Staceyann Chin, who performed so brilliantly in the Tongues of Fire segment of the 2005 Calabash Fest (The Fire is Lit-2005) has put a human face on her happenstance of being gay and constructing a life of discovery, value and honesty.

"To watch Staceyann Chin perform is to watch the very essence of poetry manifested: her performances are imperfect, volatile and beautiful. Chin's poetry is passionate and well-written, sure; but it's her ability to communicate that passion in performance that is unparalleled. She becomes the poetry." (Christin O'Keefe Aptowicz in Words in Your Face:...Twenty Years of New York City Poetry Slam)

Staceyann Chin: Jamaican Poet Interview on OPRAH
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgkAwR_q-Lc&feature=related

Staceyann Chin: The Other Side of Paradise--Off the Shelf
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iHSjAFfqfw&feature=related

This is a hot button topic. We are going to keep a close eye on the posts and delete (not edit) anything that goes over the line. No cursing, no offensive language, no disparaging how others live their lives.

Staceyann Chin Reads Bartolome de Las Casas
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlTG4yVByY&feature=related

A Staceyann Poem for All Audiences:

My Grandmothers Tongue
She gets shorter every year
her ninetieth birthday bending her into a new century

Now she has the time to wonder
how the seeds of her womb
have come to such silence

Hearing is hard for her
the twilight taxes the organs of the poor
great-grandmother
she wonders if the children born in exile
look anything like her

American residents
they visits spaced like the teeth of the elderly
infrequent and few
they bring too many sweets anyway
old people should not partake of such pleasures
dying flesh cannot withstand it

I don't know the names
of the grandchildren in Europe
the countries are unpronounceable there
the languages spoken with odd pauses
and awkward lilts

I have buried the umbilical cords
that connect me to their future
the past lies trapped beneath my tongue
my children have taken their children
out of my house and I can no longer hear them.

This is what I imagine she would say
if she had the painted words
prodigal that I am
the daughter of a different land
America has opened its hand
and I am no longer drawn to the place
that birthed me

Wood floors have hardened
to concrete structures stretching
high above my mothers, mothers aspirations

My grandmother has become a ritual of memory
and I am hard pressed to translate

Her dialect communicates necessity
Another woman warms my bed

My mother speaks French phrases in Cologne
her German-Canadian child has never heard Jamaicans
sliding their fiery tongues over the blunt patois
she only dreams of America home of the faded-blue jeans
pale skin and long fingers like mine
oxtails and boiled bananas are foreign to her

Grandma can hardly see
the night falls more quickly for her
familiar words in her mouth sweetens her
she mutters the old names over and over and over again
it is impossible to learn the new ones
trust in the Lord and be of Good courage
she knows all the words of her salvation
the foreign names are unnecessary
and how would she say Larah Frederica Hayle Mills-Moller
Diamonique and Sherrel are out of reach
Lisa might have been possible
but Munich is a lifetime away
and her tenure is close to being over

Jamaica: A Grim Place to Be Gay
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jamaica-a-grim-place-to-be-gay-1786273 .html

Nothing to edit here TB.Net. I say live and let live.

Though I disagree with what is what I see as a serious level of intolerance for how some people were born, I cannot impose my belief system on another culture. I can and do avoid any anti-gay music, and I refuse to patronize any advertisers who use entertainers who use anti-gay lyrics even if these lyrics are not part of the ads.

Remove the masks of supermasculinity/femininity and empty bragadocio to reveal the fearful, ignorant and insecure.

I have a few gay friends and they are the nicest, most generous people I know. Of course they are not that way because they are gay, they are that way because it's the way they are. I have never and probably will never understand how/why people hate people and/or kill or maim them because they are 'different' or don't conform to the beliefs of others...whether that be being gay, catholic, muslim, etc.etc... If you feel the need to 'hate', hate the ones who are hurting others physically, mentally, the ones who kick and maim animals/kids who can't protect themselves, the ones who don't care about nothing and will do anything to anyone to get ahead....being gay is a way of life it's not a crime.

It is the number one thing that I hate and do not understand about Jamaican society. When I question Jamaicans about this, they all quote the Bible ! I guess they ignore the part about being ALL Gods creatures !
Yet, this is from a society where the men are proud to have fathered many children from as many different women.A society that is totally patriarchal. Where the woman cannot deny her man sex !
The odd thing is that the lesbian female is looked at quite differently, because the Jamaican men do not believe that a woman can be a lesbian. It is that she has not been "sexed" by the right man !
And to the above poster RM. Supporting basic "human rights" is not imposing your belief system on another culture. You cannot ask another culture to accept it, but you can ask that they "respect" the human rights of others not to be harmed because of their sexual orientation.
By the way, I am not a "batty bowy", so do not think for a minute that this is why I take the position that I do. I say this because I know this is Jamaica !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

BRUCE Golding, PRIME Mini-ster of Jamaica. Speaking from the TOP...To whom is he speaking when he says "NO GAYS"...Is he un-COMFORT-able? Is there NO Re-Dress to Ignorance of Civil & Human Rights of the Indi-vid-ual Here...In This Place...At This Time?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeVy5Sp6xyw&feature=related

But it is a crime here in Jamaica...

To me personally, being homosexual is a lot like being left-handed. Most people are born right-handed (most people are born heterosexual), some people are born left-handed (some people are born homosexual), and some people are ambidexterous (some people are bisexual).

It's just a trait that you're born with, but it doesn't tell anything about what kind of a person you are and you should not be discriminated against because you were born with having this trait.

Who cares if you use your left hand for writing or your right hand? The same way, who cares if you're attracted to your own sex or the opposite sex?
Scientists have and will continue to argue about whether it's the genes, environment, hormones, but in the end it doesn't matter much to me. It's just a trait, one among many traits we're all born with - we all have them (our height, eye color, handedness, certain talents, whatever). It shouldn't be used to make judgements about you.

I have a friend, a female friend, who I've known forever - I mean like since 3rd grade or something. A few years ago we're chatting, and suddenly I can see that she's really anxious and worried. She tells me she has something to tell me that is really important and really shocking. A thousand thoughts went through my head - has she been diagnosed with something awful and has 5 months to live? Is she moving away for good somewhere across the world? Has she been telling my private secrets to others? What?
She then tells me that she has been attracted to other women her entire life, so that makes her gay. LOL! I was so relieved! I thought she'd be dying or something! And she was really relieved too, because she thought I'd be like "OMG you're a freak, get away from me, you pervert!" It doesn't change who she is and why I like her, so why should I be bothered with who she's attracted to?

Oh, and some people still believe it's a matter of choice. I would tell them - if it were a matter of choice, do you think ANYONE would choose that? Because being gay means that lots of people will hate you, discriminate against you, make fun of you. Who would choose that, if it were just a matter of choice?

I watch Stacyann perform at calabash back in the 2005,and i also use to watch her on a TV show called My Two Cent.I luv her even thou am straight,cause she is a brilliant poet

I remember as a child growing up in Jamaica, we had openly gay people living in the community where I was raised.It was no secret and everyone knew and apart from a few furtive giggles from the children they suffered no harrassment.One of our neighbours was gay and our dressmaker was also a gay man.I can still remember the pretty dresses he made me as if it was yesterday.I think Jamaican society began to change with the the spread of shallow christian fundamentalism that demonises gay people followed by the lyrics in popular jamaican music.The two are very powerful mediums of communication and I just wish they would turn this ability to change and influence cultural norms into educating the masses on the ills of hatred and intolerance. Jamaicans love their music and their church and I am sure it would make a huge difference. I can never understand the church's obsession with homosexuality when there are so many dire issues in jamaican society and the the world generally that don't get a mention. Why?

I watched the video of PM Golding and I was shocked. His attitude toward homosexuals is none of them will serve in his cabinet. This is even worse than the US government almost forcing nearly 800 homosexual translators out of the military. These were translators fluent in Arabic and we needed them. I find it appalling that such attitudes still exist, both in my own country and in Jamaica. I am ashamed for the US and I am ashamed for Jamaica.

The Science & Psychology of Gay-ness:

Psychology Today: (psycho-babble for the masses):
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200906/could-homosexual-genes-be-na turally-selected

New Scientist
www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolution-myths-natural-selection-cannot-ex plain-homosexuality.html

If confused or perplexed...follow a Jesus teaching: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. Then Jesus says this: “You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last. . .I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.”

Thank you for that last paragraph Scorpio MoonGirl. That is the debate I always have with others: Why oh why would someone "choose" to be discriminated against? It makes no sense to me.

Reformed or Compromised?: Has 2011 Reggae Grammy Winner Buju Banton (Before the Dawn) Seen the Light or the Glitter of Gold?
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jul/23/musicnews.gayrights


Promo for Before the Dawn Concert...As US Court Trial Continues.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY4Gl06r9kI&feature=fvwrel

The Guardian article was almost four years ago and Banton has broken the agreement several times since then. I do not see you point.

Though I often find MikeyMike's comments somewhat abrasive, I agree with what he has said on this subject. It pains me to see people disliking others because of how they interpreted the Bible. There are many different religions and except for things such as "Do not kill," they disagree on how they interpret the Bible. Who is to say one interpretation is correct and another is not? Why can't people accept others for who they are and let them live in peace and treat them with respect? If Jamaica is such a conservative country, why do Jamaicans not look down on couples who have many children but do not bother to get married? Why do Jamaicans boast about fathering children from several different women and not living with their children and guiding them through life? I don't get it.

I am not homosexual and I would not choose that sexual orientation if I had the choice because it is so difficult to have people look down on you if you happen to be born homosexual or very dark skinned or with some obvious physical deformity. There is definite scientific proof that people are born with a sexual preference and those who think it is a conscious choice are plain wrong.

It had been suggested that approximately 10 percent of the population is homosexual, though many of these people do not admit it in public or even to themselves. Even though I have no prejudice against those who are homosexual, including my own brother and one of my distant cousins, I must say I enjoy a silent moment of glee when a leader who has spoken out against homosexuals is then discovered to be a homosexual himself. In my opinion, it is wrong to be a hypocrite but not wrong to be a homosexual.

We are all God's children.

If you want to go after someone, go after rapists, murderers and other people who make a conscious choice to harm others.

The Reggae Compassionate Act

We, the artists of the Reggae community, hereby present this letter as a symbol of our dedication to the guiding principles of Reggae's enduring foundation ONE LOVE. Throughout time, Reggae has been recognized as a healing remedy and an agent of positive social change. We will continue this proud and righteous tradition.

Reggae Artists and their music have fought against injustices, inequalities, poverty and violence even while enduring some of those same circumstances themselves. Over the years, reggae music has become popularized and enjoyed by an unprecedented audience all over the world. Artists of the Reggae Community respect and uphold the rights of all individuals to live without fear of hatred and violence due to their religion, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity or gender.

While we recognize that our artistic community comprises many different individuals who express themselves in different ways and hold a myriad of beliefs, we believe firmly that the way forward lies in tolerance. Everyone can keep his own conviction and we must receive respect for our freedom of speech as far as we respect the law, but it must be clear there's no space in the music community for hatred and prejudice, including no place for racism, violence, sexism or homophobia.

We do not encourage nor minister to HATE but rather uphold a philosophy of LOVE, RESPECT and UNDERSTANDING towards all human beings as the cornerstone of reggae music.

This Compassionate Act is hereby calling on a return to the following principles as the guiding vision for the future of a healthy Reggae music community:

* Positive Vibrations
* Consciousness raising
* Social and Civic Engagement
* Democracy and Freedom
* Peace and Non-Violence
* Mother Nature
* Equal Rights and Justice
* One Love
* Individual Rights
* Humanity
* Tolerance and Understanding

We, as artists, are committed to a holistic and healthy existence in the world, and to respect to the utmost the human and natural world. We pledge that our music will continue to contribute positively to the world dialogue on peace, respect and justice for all.

To this end, we agree to not make statements or perform songs that incite hatred or violence against anyone from any community.

ONE LOVE

Signed: Buju Banton, Beenie Man, Capleton, Sizzla

www.petertatchell.net/pop_music/bujubantonbyebyehomophobia.htm

Banton recorded "Boom Bye Bye" seventeen years ago in 1991, at the age of fifteen, reportedly in response to a newspaper headline in a Jamaican paper alleging a case of man/boy rape. Ever since, the song, whose lyrics appear to advocate for the killing of homosexuals, has been a frequent target of gay protests. Anti-Buju activists like the UK's OutRage say "Boom Bye Bye" has contributed to Jamaica's rampant homophobia and fostered a climate of violence against gays and lesbians, which they fear could turn Banton concert-goers into rabid gay-bashing mobs.

McGregor's press release claims that Banton no longer performs the song in concert, adding that the 4-time Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter has an otherwise excellent human rights record.
She notes that Banton has made songs condemning gun violence, brought attention to genocide in Sudan, created his own organization to combat AIDS, and has been involved with US-based nonprofits working on behalf of underprivileged youth in Jamaica. Furthermore, she contends that violence of any kind has never broken out at a Banton show.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2009/09/threat_of_gay_protest_forces_b.php

I don't think you have gone far enough with your research, Oscar Wilderness. Please see this link:
http://www.petertatchell.net/pop_music/buju-bantons-violations-of-the-reggae-com passionate-act.htm
The evidence does not show any remorse on the part of the man. We all do things when we are kids that we regret - I don't think this is one of them.

I own a place that rents rooms in Treasure Beach. I am purposely keeping the name of my place and my own name confidential.

Unless someone is a return visitor, we have no idea what they look like before they arrive. We do not know their race. We do not know their sexual orientation. It is not our business to ask.

Anyone with tourist accommodations and anyone who makes their money from tourists knows that tourists are the lifeblood of Treasure Beach. It is also clear that 2010 was a very bad year for rentals and we are still all feeling the effects of that. When we speak to a prospective guest we are often questioned about crime because of Jamaica's crime problems and reputation. We do our best to explain we believe they will be safe in Treasure Beach. We know a lot of tourists do not even bother to contact us because they believe they would be safer on another island. We have only been asked once by homosexual guests if they would be welcome in Treasure Beach because they have heard about anti-gay bigotry in Jamaica. We did our best to assure them we believed they would be treated with dignity. These gentlemen booked with us and I know they were quite satisfied with how they were received and treated.

The crime problem makes it difficult enough to attract tourists to Jamaica. Adding homosexual bigotry to it makes it even more difficult. Even if our guests are not homosexuals, many of them have gay friends and relatives and are apt to feel uncomfortable spending their money in a place that looks down on people they love. There are many other Caribbean island that do not have Jamaica's crime problems or anti-homosexual feelings. We need to stop ignoring this attitude and do our best to change attitudes so all people of all colors and sexual orientation feel welcome and comfortable. If not, we are losing money that could be ours.

Is there room on this site for someone who feels that homosexuality is a sin? Who feels that is in simply wrong? I don't see any other posts with this view? Have they all been deleted? Were there any to begin with?

Coercion or force done by anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, to anyone, is wrong and is what I think is one of the roots of our homophobia. It is assumed that "Batty man gwine ...". V lived next door with another man. I remember the fear from the elders when I strayed near the front gate within his grasp as a young child. He was always humble and a bit effeminate. He never grabbed me in the decades he and his companion lived their arrangement.
My mentor was the king of the gays. He served with the British army as an intelligence officer in WW2 Middle East. A gentleman who knew what was what and who was whom. My family was welcome in his house and in those of his friends. My son and daughters are straight and have only good memories of those times.
Sin. The 7 varying deadly or the one Sin of loosing focus on the blessing and potential of life and missing the chance of seeing that in another?

Here is something worth looking at:

http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/when-did-you-choose-to-be-straight/

Many people were taught homosexuality is a sin. I understand that but I do not agree with it. I think hating people for how they were born is a sin. I also think as people become adults they have the option of altering their belief system, though I know it is difficult to change feelings that have been taught to you since you were a child. I know it is different than homosexuality but some of my friends are vegetarians and they think eating meat is a sin. The good thing is they do not try to force me to believe the same thing they do.

You are born the way you are born. Look at the history of some nations including America and see how awful things were when black people were treated as well less than equals. It was not their "fault" for being born black, yet people thought it was fine to treat them in ways not befitting decent human beings. I will always be ashamed of my country for doing that. I would hope one day in the near future Jamaicans will also look at their treatment of homosexuals and feel the same shame I do.

To: Freedom

That short video clip is really worth looking at. I had never looked at it that way ...

Thank you.

I think if you think homosexuality is a sin then you should not practice it. Simple. But you can't judge anyone else for what they were born into.

To By Room: It appears that Jamaica is growing up. You will someday find yourself in the minority. That's how these things work. Thank God.

It's interesting that anti gay propaganda is often justified by quoting the Bible. But it is worth remembering that, back in the day, the bible was also used to justify the practice of slavery.

I would like to share a column I wrote about "difference." While it does not speak specifically about homosexuality, it speaks wholeheartedly to humanity.

http://www.swcommconnection.com/features/story.php?story_id=125631795836254800

Different. According to Webster’s New World Dictionary, the word different means: not alike, dissimilar, not the same, distinct, unlike most others, unusual, various. All perfectly benign definitions wouldn’t you say? I mean a daisy is indeed not the same as a daffodil, and it is definitely distinct from a dahlia.
Who among us would be perturbed should one of our offspring, or a child in our charge, question out loud, as to why a daisy was so much shorter than a daffodil? Few I suspect. Why then do we adults have a tendency to become conversationally impotent, embarrassed and even angry when similar enquiry is made about dissimilar characteristics in human beings?

Strolling along Waikiki Beach with my sons Moses and Malik, (who at that time were ages three and one respectively,) a little person with a parrot on his shoulder walked toward us. I immediately began to panic – and it was not because of the parrot. I silently prayed that Moses would not notice the little man, (the parrot would have, of course, been fine, but dear Lord, not the man,) and surreptitiously quickened my pace. Alas, ‘twas not to be. Sharp-eyed and precocious Moses clocked the man and promptly bellowed, “Mummy, why is that man so short?” As I struggled for composure and tried to convince myself that nobody else had heard his “whisper,” he barreled on, “Does he talk?”

Had the sands, at that moment, parted and Mother earth swallowed me whole, leaving my children waifs and strays in unfamiliar and potentially hostile territory, I would have thanked her profusely. Unfortunately, salvation via terra was not to be mine. The atmosphere inhaled, the tide froze in ebb, and a million eyeballs assaulted me, boinging maniacally in my peripheral vision. There was nowhere to run to, if I could have managed movement. Trapped and struck dumb, peering down I met Moses’ expectant “curiosity colored in innocence,” expression. My mouth opening and closing like a fish out of water, I ineffectively sucked at the air. Finally, mercifully, the incognito wise woman within me responded, “I don’t know Moses, why don’t you ask him?” All at once a gentle breeze blew, the tide flowed, and eyeballs retreated to sockets. Or maybe, it was simply that, delivered from fear, I was breathing again.

Moses spoke to the little man, discovering that he did indeed talk, even though he remained short, and for the rest of our holiday they were beach buddies on first name terms. The man, (I must confess, I have forgotten his name, but not the lesson learned,) thanked me for seeing the human in him, and ultimately giving my child permission to do the same.

Somewhere along the line in our civilization we have learned that different when applied to human beings, whether it be difference in skin color, physical ability, attributes, sexual orientation, gender or stature, can be something not nice, something abnormal, something less than; something not to be discussed (or acknowledged for that matter) in polite conversation and certainly not with the children.

But different is a fact of life. Different is, as the sky is, as the wind is, simple, natural, nature’s gift, and oh so necessary. Variety, as that trite (but true) expression states, is the spice of life.

A dahlia is different from a daisy. I am different from you, as you are different from Moses, as he is different from that little man in Hawaii. It is nothing to be ashamed of – no need for shrouding in secrecy and silence. Ultimately, you and I, and he, and we, are all, magnificently human.

So, let us each commit to honoring our differences, but celebrating our sameness, our oneness in humanity. And the next time a child in your life lustily expresses their curiosity about a fellow human being, don’t shush, or shame (or wish for the ground to eat you.) Dare to dialogue out loud and proud. You will learn something potent and, who knows, you might make a new friend.

Daily Inspiration for Better Living, Thursday, February 17, 2011. Universal Centre of Truth.

I AM AWARE OF GOD IN THEM

Who are these people? What are they after? Why have they come into our lives? Do they come offering blessings or conflicts?

How common are these questions when we meet people who appear to be different from us? Our answers are often mixed and confusing, but one thing is certain: everyone we encounter is an offspring of the Divine.

Each individual is a combination of love, wisdom, life, power, and the substance out of which all humankind is constructed. The real question we should ask ourselves is: Am I aware of the God in them, regardless of outer appearances?

What shall we do to heighten our awareness? First, rely on inner guidance; then, practice the Presence of God through meditation and prayer. By abstaining from any pre-judgments, we can see other people's expression of their God-selves just as clearly as we can see our own.

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." John 7:24

God is the only perfect being and He has never made a mistake in what He does. If He makes you man, then you are man,if you were meant to be a woman then that is what He has made you.He did not create Adam and Steve. He created Adam and Eve.How dare anyone say He has messed up when people 'go the other way'? Personally I do not hate people who are gay. I feel sorry for them that they do not know the creator.They are to be pitied, not hated.

Tolerant, would you not say that all men and women are of the Creator? And if we are of the Creator, how could we not know Him/Her? If you take your beliefs from the Bible then you must surely know that "if you know not Love then you know not God". Simply put, God is Love, so straight or gay, if you know Love then you already know the Creator. Nuff Love.

To answer the question by Is there Room:
There have been three postings that were over the guidelines and deleted. Some were for and some against homosexuality.

And yes, there is certainly a place on this site for those who express their opinions in a respectful way.

-TBNet

If you believe that your God created all of us, then he created gay people too - no mistake! All self-respecting gay people are proud of what they are and would certainly not take kindly to being pitied.

The “Law” was put forth as a mirror of sorts–to show man that he cannot keep that law. Homosexuality is as old as dirt. It went on in the days of the Bible as it goes on now and will continue to go on.

Jesus came and “fulfilled” the law. He freed us from the power of the law, which we humans are powerless to follow. So if we think we should put homosexuals to death, then we have to put adulturers to death, fornicators (sex without marriage) liars, revelers, cheats, and all sorts of wicked sins of man.

We tend to put so much more on homosexuality, yet we excuse adulterers, and fornicators. Sin is sin–there is no levels of sin when you look at “The Law” If one breaks the law in one instance, then one has broken the entire law.

What would Jesus do? Would He hunt down homosexuals to kill them?

[edited by TBNet]

My opinion of homosexual people changed in my first year of university.
We stayed two prople to a room and four people shared a bathroom. We all got along fine, showing respect and understanding to each person,and became friends. After the first six months we founded out that one of the guys was a homosexual. The other two boys quickly condemned him.I had to asked myself how was he any different now, then before. He still treated me with respect, understanding, and friendliness. Therefore, I had to conclude that he was the same person as before, and I was the same as before, therefore I begin to understand that it does not matter the sexual orientation of a person, nor does it matter the race,nationallity, sex, size, physical limintatins of any person. The only thing that matters is how another person treats you !!!!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

All men are of the creator but not everyone knows him and not everyone knows love. If gays knew God as their personal savior and He lives in their heart, then they would do what He desires.They would live a lifestyle that is acceptable in His sight. Yes, homosexuality was from bible days but didn't God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the same reason?

TBNET, why you only post just the positive things people say about jays, you let it seem like every one that used this site or with gays.I for one have nothing against gays but all these posting are for the gays and I am sure other people post there believe against gays but you refused from posting them.If you don,t want to post all the comments please closed this subject.

don't want to post all closed, we have approved dissenting messages like you reference. See the one from Lord Have Mercy as an example.

What we have not approved are posts containing name calling, disrespect, baseless allegations, etc.

Respectfully,
TBNet

IT IS UNLAWFUL,ILLEGAL in JAMAICA let's keep it that way .The Prime Minister was so right in his speech,,,,'NOT in MY Cabinet',one love to all.

I grew up in a Christian household where the Bible was often quoted to justify slavery and hatred of homosexuals. We were taught that those who did not accept Christ as their Savior were doomed. I thought black people were inferior, I was afraid of homosexuals and I believed Jews would go to hell. When I got to college, I met blacks, homosexuals and Jews and eventually realized they were decent people, all worthy of God's love and my respect. I was ashamed at myself for having been so closeminded for all the years I was growing up. I was ashamed at my parents to justify teaching me to hate those they believed were not worthy even though I knew they truly believed their interpretation of the Bible. People can use the Bible to justify most anything, but I do not think this makes it right to look down on others. Today, I have black friends. I have homosexual friends. I have Jewish friends. I love them for being good and decent people. I still go to church but it is a church of INCLUSIVENESS, not a place where hatred or mistrust of others because of how they are born is preached. I am teaching my children the same thing. My parents will never feel comfortable in my church because they think it is too liberal. I see nothing liberal about accepting people for who they are. We are all human beings.

As a frequent visitor to Treasure Beach I am aware of the fundamentalist religious beliefs held by a good percentage of the population. I have had people tell me they "will pray for me". If that makes them feel better this is fine by me. I figure it can't hurt. What I am mostly enjoying here is the willingness of many who have expressed their views is they chose to go outside what they had been taught--which was a "closed belief system". It is good to know people can change their views as they mature and decide what to believe and what not to believe.

So are kushumpeng and driving over the speed limit unlawful. Both for different reasons. Many of us woulda lock up long time for one or other.

The risky aspect of male homosexuality has to do with the passage of a critical load of 'bad' bacteria, viruses or fungi through delicate mucous membrane, that thin, moist skin as on the inside of the lips. Most risky, anywhere, when there is an opening, tear or insect bite etc, that allows easy passage of challenges from without. Male and female relationships have their risks too, but the female is provided with a more robust protection down S.

To Lord have mercy, are you saying that gays don't have Love? That would seem like a pretty broad brush to me.

To Lover:

The Prime Minister should take a closer look at his cabinet.
His statement was not only hypocritical, but senseless and archaic.
Not a Leadership statement at all but coming from someone who seems stuck in his own mire.

Lover on Monday
You must mean "one love" to all, except the GAYS !!

Lord Have Mercy
So if "all" men are of the "Creator", then did the Creator not create homosexuals ?
I know this is a useless argument, until somethings happens on a personal level to change peoples minds about accepting homosexuality !!
Therefore I will comment no more on this topic !!
TBNET, THANKS for being so democratic on this forum.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

[NB: this letter has been in circulation for a while now. Check out this google search for a bit of the history -TBNet]

Below is a letter I wrote to the editor of The Gleaner a number of years ago in response to one Mr. Arana's statement that the bible condemns homosexuality.

The Editor:

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Arana for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from him and understand why he has such an aversion to homosexuality.

As you said, "in the eyes of God, marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... end of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? (I'm pretty sure she's a virgin).

3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? How can you help me here?

5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination?

6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. It must be really great to be on such close terms with God and his son.

TO: LOVER

MAYBE YOU SHOULD INCLUDE ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE UNLAWFUL AND ILLEGAL IN JAMAICA AND LET US KNOW HOW THOSE THINGS ARE BEING "KEPT THAT WAY".

HOW CAN YOU CLAIM "ONE LOVE TO ALL" AND BE SO JUDGEMENTAL?

I do not think we should include Biblical resources in this subject, as in reality the Bible is not a proven fact, just a book based on a particular faith with many interpretations. Why pick and choose what parts of the Bible we will adhere to and which we will not? It seems it can be a book based on convinience.

I would like to challenge a couple of earlier points:
1. "He did not create Adam and Steve. He created Adam and Eve."
This creation story is primarily about God, a story written to show the power of God who created the world. Because the text says it is “natural” that a man and a woman come together to create a new life, some people think this means gay or lesbian couples are “unnatural.” They read this interpretation into the text, even though the text is silent about all kinds of relationships that don’t lead to having children, like heterosexuals who are infertile or too old to have children. Are these relationships “unnatural”?
2. "didn't God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for the same reason?"
Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom — and not one of them mentions homosexuality.

IN THE FIFTIES ALL THE WAY UP TO THE EIGHTY I DID NOT SEE OR HERE ABOUT ANY GAYS AND LESBIAN IN TREASURE BEACH ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY COME OUT FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

Here we are, in the year 2011, and with so much devastation happening in the world - mass starvation, rapes, mental illness, abuse in all forms .. it is strange to think that there are some that do not accept that peoples sexual orientations differ: whether it be by choice or circumstance.

What does it matter who one chooses as a sexual partner as long as they are "of age" and it is consensual?

Wouldn't it be better to see two people who care and love each other or (for example) know some man is raping a woman, or giving abuse in some other form or manner?

It's not only gay people who need to watch out, according to the bible:

"A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed" (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

It's good that this topic can be discussed without friction. I don't know what other emails TBNet got, hopefully just a few over the top.

So much can be achieved when we listen to each other, suspending judgement until the other presents themselves as they are. Not as simple as it sounds, our inner voices are what we base our reality on. To do unto others as we would to ourselves, one needs to hear what the other wants/needs done. Or undone.

@Just sayin' - wonderful, fun, delightful. TRUE.

The culture in the Uk is so much more tolerant.When I first visited Jamaica with my Jamaican-born husband,I had no idea about the bigotry. My husband had never made any comments at all about homosexuality. I know many gay people and have absolutely no problem with anyone's sexual persuasion. I was really uncomfortable and upset when I heard 'batty bwoy' etc. I am ashamed of the attitude when I am in Jamaica.

What I was much more upset about was the number of men who feel it's fine and macho to have many children by loads of different women and then dump them to fend for themselves. I find this much more of a sin.

Maybe one day Jamaica will join much of the rest of the world and become more tolerant and forgiving towards men and women who are born this way. It's not a choice.

'Lover' maybe you should have put..one love to all (apart from anyone who is gay) That would have been much more appropriate [edited by TB.Net]

Not sure whose quote this is though I think it applies in this situation and most anything in life:

Every day we decide who we will be by the actions we take.

Discussed? The arguments are so puerile it is hardly worth commenting on ..one gets the impression that only one side can say anything they want while any sensible attempt to present the other side is not published.
The excuse for homosexuality is that they were born that way. Pedophiles, rapists, incestuous people, people with a propensity for bestiality, all could claim to be born that way, would we be so tolerant of these people as we are of homosexuals?
I feel very strongly that a disservice is being done to our country and our community with this one sided discussion. No one has even bothered to point out that most of the violence against homosexuals in Jamaica have been against each other.
We have become so eager to please homosexuals that no one bothers to question the appropriateness of the word homophobia, which means an irrational fear of homosexuals...most people I know do not fear homosexuals, they either pity them or disdain them. The act performed by male homosexuals is illegal in Jamaica, and most right thinking people would regard it as unnatural...and that is a fact. It defies the law of nature of man and of God. Why cant this view be presented. And no one is advocating death for homosexuals.
Washington has been duped into granting asylum to these gays. What wont a Jamaican do for a US visa!!

To The Muzzled Majority

While I agree that most posts here are accepting of homosexuals, I take exception with a couple of your points.

First, as a moderator here I know full well what people are posting. The few dissenting messages we have deleted contained very inflammatory language and would not be allowed no matter what subject they discussed. Those which are civil, like yours, are approved.

Next, do songs which have lyrics such as "bun the batty man", "Let's get them one at a time," and "boom bye bye!" count as "advocating death for homosexuals"? If not, why?

What facts do you have to support your claim that "most of the violence against homosexuals in Jamaica have been against each other." This is not the first time I've heard this put forward and I'd like to understand where it comes from.

Finally, Miriam-Websters dictionary defines homophobia as "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals." Note the word "irrational". Other dictionaries have similar entries.

Respectfully,
Eric

Not death, just isolation, disdain and pity. Maybe a concentration camp on Goat Island? 5* natch ;) There they can do violence to each other away from us normal ones.

Being an authority on the laws of nature and of God, what would you have Jamaican gays do TMM? Also, let us know who muzzled you. And why?

Cannot imagine life without gays.
That would be as boring as life without laughter.

To: Come out
You might not have noticed any gays in Treasure Beach from the fifties to the eighties, but I can assure you they have been around there as long as mankind has.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/23/133996797/u-s-will-no-longer-defend-anti-gay-marri age-law

U.S. Will No Longer Defend Anti-Gay Marriage Law
by NPR Staff and Wires

February 23, 2011 The Obama administration says a federal law that bans recognition of same-sex marriage is unconstitutional and has directed the Justice Department not to defend the law anymore in court cases across the country.

The decision announced Wednesday represents a big victory for gay rights activists.

Obama's Justice Department has been arguing to preserve the Defense of Marriage Act for two years in courts all over the nation. Government lawyers said they were acting out of a sense of legal precedent, not moral obligation.

Everything changed Wednesday when Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress that Obama had determined that the administration can no longer defend the federal law that defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

"After careful consideration, including a review of my recommendation, the president has concluded that given a number of factors, including a documented history of discrimination, classifications based on sexual orientation should be subject to a more heightened standard of scrutiny," Holder said in a statement released Wednesday.

At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney said Obama himself is still "grappling" with his personal view of gay marriage but has always personally opposed the Defense of Marriage Act as "unnecessary and unfair."

From now on, the Justice Department will no longer fight to support the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act in court. But the government will continue to enforce the law across the executive branch unless Congress repeals it or a federal judge throws it out.

"Much of the legal landscape has changed in the 15 years since Congress passed" the Defense of Marriage Act, Holder said in a statement. He noted that the Supreme Court has ruled that laws criminalizing homosexual conduct are unconstitutional and that Congress has repealed the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Holder wrote to House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) that Obama has concluded the Defense of Marriage Act fails to meet a rigorous standard under which courts view with suspicion any laws targeting minority groups who have suffered a history of discrimination.

The attorney general said the Justice Department had defended the law in court until now because the government was able to advance reasonable arguments for the law based on a less strict standard.

NPR's Carrie Johnson reported from Washington, D.C., for this story, which contains material from The Associated Press.

Live and let live!

To Eric:
It would be sad if most of the sentiments against were expressed in a manner unfit to be published.

That said I will reiterate, most people do not have this phobia. I know what the word means,but it describes a condition that has been contrived. A few misguided singers on the surface of it may seem to be advocating death, but this is how some people express themselves. Bun in the line you quoted is not to be taken literally..it's a kind of poetic licence. I have never heard,read of or seen anyone being burnt for being a homosexual.
The last three high profile murders of homosexual men have been at the hands of their buddies. I have never heard, read of,or seen anyone being murdered in Jamaica because he is a homosexual.

Turey, I am not an authority on the laws of God per se, but the law of man is clear, the law of nature is self evident, consequently the law of God should be self evident even without the Bible or any other book to tell you. Open your eyes and your mind. See if you can tackle my point about the 'born that way' excuse. As usual the trivia gets in the way of real issues.
No one wants to isolate these people, but I can tell you from personal experience, it is not a nice thing for a neighbourhood to be taken over by some of them. There behaviour is unacceptable, loud and they tend to gather in numbers, hence I think the reason for one of their popular names.
People have legitimate concerns, families are often traumatized by some of their behaviour and they are extremely jealous and are not afraid to express it in the most public way.
Whereas gays resent any discrimination, they should be cognizant of the fact that they are in the minority and should not seek to throw there behaviour in the face of people who don't subscribe to their way of life.
Whereas nudists are accepted in some areas, I am sure none of us would be comfortable with naked people walking on the road, in our offices etc.
We have reached a point where we are so unsure of ourselves that we are afraid to think or having thought we have lost the capacity to accept the logic of our conclusions...we sacrifice it at the alter of political correctness.
A concentration camp Turey, maybe, but for people who invent such concepts out of thin air!
Does anyone really believe that asylum was properly granted to Jamaican gays? Really?

Brutal police raids on peaceful gatherings of reputedly homosexual patrons, in the very core of Jamaica's tourist zone, the Hip Strip, implies silent assent at the highest authority and a complicit culture that cheers from the sidelines.

As reported, in a Gleaner Letter, along with another recent raid in a Kingston gay club, the police did not "disclose the purpose of the raids, but they clearly have one intent, namely, to intimidate and remind lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender and intersex individuals that their kind is not welcome in Jamaica, and they certainly don't have the right to assemble and socialise peacefully."

So when Muzzled Majority claims that no one is advocating death for homosexuals...only death to their freedoms, rights to gather socially and a coercion, through power-tripping by enforcers of cultural attitudes, that a minority repress their identity and return to the lying, self-hatred and fears of the "Closet".
Is that the muzzle that some would wish placed on a minority...out of sight--out of mind?

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110225/letters/letters5.html

This string is turning into what I feel is a very sad commentary on the plight of homosexuals in Jamaica. Based upon what I have read in the press, both in and outside of Jamaica, homosexuals do not seem to get equal protection from the police; they are scorned by the PM; and they are often made to feel intensely uncomfortable in their own communities.

I do understand the attitude of many Jamaicans is if the Bible says homosexuality is wrong then it is wrong. We all know the Bible can be interpreted many different ways depending on who is doing the interpretation. Though I do NOT agree, let us for a minute assume being homosexual is a matter of free choice and being one is wrong. We know there are only so many resources any government has, Jamaica included. These resources include money, police and so forth. We all know there are priorities with everything such as food and water are more important than three pairs of new shoes. Would someone please explain why the government in Jamaica is expending its energy toward "approving" anti-homosexual activities instead of doing things that might be more useful. For example, would you rather the government fix the canal in Treasure Beach or harass homosexuals? What I see as mixed up priorities does not make any sense to me.

I admit this is a guess, but I am guessing the majority of Jamaicans are against homosexuality. If so, then there might be the "majority wins" argument. I recall when schools in America were segregated. The majority wanted them to stay that way and there were marches and sit ins and demonstrations in which many people were killed and hurt. What would have happened if America allowed the majority to rule? How fair would that have been? Sometimes even if people do not agree with it, others need to stand up and do their best to see all people get their fair rights.

Which other minorities should not make waves and throw their way of life in the faces of the majority?

Blacks in a white society?
Christians in a Muslim country?

How about being tolerant of other's differences?

Would you love your son or daughter any less if you found out they were homosexual? I would not.

"No one wants to isolate these people, but I can tell you from personal experience, it is not a nice thing for a neighbourhood to be taken over by some of them. There behaviour is unacceptable, loud and they tend to gather in numbers, hence I think the reason for one of their popular names.
People have legitimate concerns, families are often traumatized by some of their behaviour and they are extremely jealous and are not afraid to express it in the most public way."

Wow, isn't that exactly what many used to say when a few Black families moved into an all White neighborhood? UH OH, there goes the neighborhood!

Websters Dictionary: Prejudice - The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.

Sympathizers would try to compare being born gay with being born black since it provides them enormous leverage. People are borned black, its their skin, that's the only difference. It's easy for gays to say they are borned that way too but then what about thieves and murderers, pedophiles, are everyone borned with their lifestyle characteristics? It's not as simple as being explained here. Yet there should not be a problem with someone living their life the way they wish, should there?

To Unmuzzled Minority:

A little understanding can go a long way.This black/white thing is tiresome.
People are the same wherever you go. We are comfortable with what we are used to. If people chose to be different, they should expect to be treated in a manner commensurate with the degree of difference. If a member of a Biker gang, for instance,moved into an Apartment complex and keeps rowdy parties and his friends late in the nights start and revv their bikes when leaving, should he be made to feel unwelcome or should his neighbours just grin and bear it.
If gays for the most part would stop trying so hard to get everyone to accept their lifestyle and become little more muzzled there would be a lot less problems. You can't force people to accept you. After all a wife beater doesn't go around flaunting this propensity!
Being gay is your business, telling me about it is not..I reserve the right not to know. JUst like loving Dance-Hall music is your business, assaulting my ears with it at every turn and in the confines of my home is not. I shouldn't be affected by your need to apprise me of your private choices.
Do you think prejudice is at work whenever there is dislike of aberrant behaviour? Here is another word you may try throwing around,hypocrisy, and there is an abundance of that when topics like these are discussed.

Right TMM, I agree, it is innapropriate behaviour that is unacceptable and should be discouraged in any communiy. No matter the lifestyle of the perpetrators. What is innapropriate will vary between communities. Volume, dress, hours of operating etc,

After that, as long as what takes place in privacy is between consenting adults, degrees of acceptance or rejection are the concern of each of us.

I agree with your above argument. Everyone has rights and should be sensative to others rights. Just because you're Jamaican doesn't mean you love dance hall music blasting loud all hours of the night.

Which is exactly my point. Sweeping generalizations are a form of prejudice. There are all kinds of people in all walks of life, religions, skin colors, etc. I feel it is unfair and unjust to say all gays are loud, gather in numbers, and behavior is unacceptable. But that is just my opinion and you know how all us heterosexuals are.

No one can force people to accept other people. No one can force others to like them. Changing attitudes takes time. No one wants to feel forced into accepting behavior that makes them feel uncomfortable.

I used to feel uncomfortable around homosexuals if they walked down the street kissing. I used to feel uncomfortable around deeply religious people if several of them came to my home in an effort to "convert" me to their religion. When I came to know some of these people as individuals in a private setting and took the time and effort to understand them in a rational manner, I began to feel much more comfortable. I realized I had been letting my emotions rule my brain.

Aberrant behavior is behavior that deviates from what is considered normal. The definition of normal varies from place to place and time to time. In Jamaica it is not considered normal for people to be homosexuals. It may boil down to whether being homosexual is a matter of choice, and that is where I believe there will continue to be debate long after anyone cares about what we are writing here on this topic.

I would caution people not to confuse homosexuality in Jamaica with such things as wife beating, child molestation, elder abuse or murder because the latter things cannot be condoned under any circumstances.

To: Normal

What exactly IS normal?

God created us all differently
and to be tolerant and accepting of one another, I do believe, is a large part of living well in Gods eyes.

Normal in Karachi or Moscow is not the same normal as in Treasure Beach.

Hey, normal in Negril is not normal in Mandeville.

Let's get our priorities straight. The following things occur in Treasure Beach (as well as where I live): A man beats his woman and inflicts terrible bruises. A mother takes money intended to buy food for her children and uses it instead on alcohol for herself. Someone speeds down a road where children and animals regularly cross. An establishment plays music very loudly late at night and keeps the neighbors awake. A homosexual man invites another homosexual man to spend the night in his home.

Which of these things should cause the LEAST concern?

To: Mind your own business

WELL SAID!

Second Normal...you are certainly not normal..you call yourself normal and then proceed to question normal..then you proceed to answer yourself..very confusing and confused. Normal has nothing to do with tolerant and accepting one another, normal is conforming to what is the usual standard type or custom.
God created us different,male and female,and normal in this context is for interaction between the sexes to produce a continuation of our specie. This goal would not be realized if we allowed the deviation from this norm to gain ascendency.
If you are uncomfortable with the word which is an accurate description of the opposite of the gay lifestyle, how much more should you be uncomfortable with the lifestyle itself. When you call a spade a spade things become so much clearer...which is not what many people want..the truth is uncomfortable,but the truth shall set you free.
A paradox of the gay lifestyle is their wanting to raise children which their choice would prevent them from having for themselves. Not normal, is it?

Tolerant laid down this absolute belief: God is the only perfect being and He has never made a mistake in what He does.

Yes, God, for the sake of your argument, as some conceive creation to be, does not make mistakes.

In the amazing stream of chemistry, brain intellect & feelings, chromosomes, DNA, proteins, cells that compose life and vitality, what must be so obvious is the vast diversity in nature, of which we humans play a part.
Can we also accept that babies born as siamese twins are not mistakes, nor horrible infant facial disfigurements, or genital confusion, chronic childhood disease or some other variation from the norm, where the mother can't be faulted?
Is it so far fetched to understand that a healthy brain could be so wired to have attractions and feelings for their own sex, no matter how hard they struggle to adhere to the norm. Faithful gay unions seem to be an assertion that, even though the attraction might be different than the majority, they seek "normal" societal relationships for themselves and their families.
Homosexuals are a proportion of our mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, cousins and, if understood and not disowned, are recognized innately as family.

We came across this Petition in the plaintive words of the mostly hidden LGBT Jamaican citizenry:

Target: Jamaican Parliament
Region: Jamaica

Background (Preamble):

Respect and tolerance is fundamental to enabling individuals, regardless of religion, gender, socio-economic status or sexual orientation, to claim and enjoy their human rights.

J-FLAG continues to observe and articulate the implications of the absence of a specific legal instrument to protect and promote the human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Jamaicans. While the enactment of laws alone will not change the engrained discrimination within our society, the presence of discriminatory laws coupled with the lack of specific protections continue to contribute to the high incidences of stigma, discrimination, harassment and other forms of abuse as well as death of Jamaicans who are, and in some cases perceived to be gay or lesbian.

In 2010, J-FLAG received and documented over forty incidences of human rights abuses meted out to members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community in Jamaica.
For example, there were two mob invasions of the homes of men suspected to be gay in February. On separate occasions, two females were raped by men who attempted to sexually cleanse them and make them heterosexual women. Additionally, two gay men were violently murdered including a cross-dresser known as “Charm” in December 2010, because they identify as gay.

In the majority of cases, there have been little or no thorough investigation and/or prosecutions for such inhumane acts unless the case has been labeled ‘high profile’.
Jamaica’s adoption of the OAS Resolutions 2435 and 2504 on ‘Human Rights, Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity’ in 2008 and 2009 is in keeping with the United Nations Resolution on Extrajudicial Killings which binds Jamaica “to investigate promptly and thoroughly all killings, including… all killings committed for any discriminatory reason, including sexual orientation”. These resolutions symbolize a commitment by the Government of Jamaica to protect persons on the basis of their sexual orientation and gender identity from human rights abuses.

Petition:

Since Jamaica gained Independence from Britain in 1962, parliamentarians have continued to ignore the rampant breach of rights meted out to all persons, including lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Jamaicans. Sexuality-based oppression in Jamaica is also enforced by many entertainers, religious leaders, educators, police officers, doctors and nurses.

Since January 2007, J-FLAG recorded the homophobic murder of eight men and more than one-hundred persons who have been victim of incidents ranging from bribery to serious bodily harm. Countless others have been stigmatized and discriminated against, beaten or forced to leave their communities because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

The discriminatory laws in Sections 76 and 77 referring to “Unnatural Crime” and 79 – “Outrages on Decency” of the Offences Against the Person Act that remain on the books as relics of our British colonial past are often used by persons to silence, suppress and intimidate gay Jamaicans or those offering much needed services and support.

Despite the acknowledgement that gay Jamaicans are vulnerable to stigma, discrimination and violence, this has had no effect on Jamaica.

We urge parliamentarians to recognise the effect these discriminatory laws have on our society. We urge them to remove these laws which can hinder our goal to become the place to live, work, raise families and do business.

We the undersign believe that an important step to begin this process in the proposed Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms which in its current state does not prohibit discrimination on the grounds of gender and sexual orientation.

You know what to do also please see the Charter of Rights tab below this post to follow previous entries on the debate, the involvement of the Lawyer's Christian Fellowship, the theocratic arguments used to swindle us out of the original clause that was removed from the 2006 draft.

Play your part in advancing the welfare of the whole human race.

Let us not forget these damning words from the Prime Minister on the Charter of Rights Debate in effect denying our rights in the precinct of our Parliament:

".....those values from time to time as humanity proceeds will be placed under stress and there is the pressure for change as indeed there is now, a society must determine the changes it will embrace and the changes it will reject and defy. We are determined to resist the pressure to recognise homosexuality as an acceptable form of relationship between human beings.

Do we run risks in doing so Mr. Speaker? Yes we do, Have attempts been made to discourage tourists and investors from coming to Jamaica? Yes, not once not twice several times and quite recent times, the gay rights lobby is international it is strong it is aggressive, it wheels significant influence and have conquered important councils of power and authority with which we have to interact but we remain steadfast in our determination that the values and culture must be protected and preserved. Other countries are free to make their choices, we must be free to make our own."
Prime Minister Bruce Golding Jamaica, October 13, 2009,
Charter of Rights Debate, Gordon House.

Since Jamaica has such a range of religious pursuits as guiding principles, we are also impressed with the efforts of gay Christians, elsewhere, to follow the Word of God as they delve deeper into the direct teachings of Jesus and some of the faulty translations of biblical texts used to shape opinion.
For our tastes, a good place to start is the Sermon on the Mount...In part-- Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth... Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled... Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy... Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God....Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

VIDEO: Gay Christian Network:
Justin Lee: "We ... work with churches and other Christian organizations to help educate the Christian community about sexual orientation issues from a Biblical standpoint." Lee founded GCN in August, 2001 to "build a supportive community to support fellow gay Christians in their Christian walks."
"We're just trying to get people together who experience attraction to the same sex, however they have handled that, and who love Jesus and say, OK, you are welcome here, and then let's pray together and figure out where God wants us to take it."

[edited by TB.Net]

Through My Eyes:
www.youtube.com/user/GayChristianNetwork#p/c/C80E396A0EA63E2D/0/LBMbNSyqwkA

A Gay Man and a Fundamentalist Christian Were on a Plane...Warning: This Is No Joke... Just Another Story, Among a Multitude, of Another Human Being Aiming to Achieve His Full Potential, in the Flesh & in the Spirit and in Authentic Relationships within a Diverse Society. In Our Associations with Gay and Lesbian Friends, Who Are "Open" About Their Homosexual Orientation, This Seems to be Such A Normative Narative.

VIDEO:
Part 1:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGDym5P5DlQ&feature=fvwre

Part 2:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUFw3R5cFs&feature=related

Conclusion:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u88q9kcH1h8&feature=related

Wikipedia is considered the free, web based, collaborative, multilingual encyclopedia that anyone (volunteers) can edit... supposedly, therefore it is a fusion of many contributors and subject to correction. Its references and citations call out for independent investigation. We know of many university professors who will not permit their students to cite their "papers" with wiki sources, while others assign writing exercises on various subjects to be submitted to Wikipedia to teach succinctness and clarity of thought on a variety of subject matter, while evaluating quickly evolving current events.

While Wiki's emphasis is not particularly on academic credentials for input, its policies stress verifiability and a neutral point of view in its editorial process. Independent reviews of Wiki articles by experts have found their accuracy to be on par with the mainline encyclopedias, but more consensus-driven and where spurious content is, more or less, soon corrected.

All that blah-blah-blah is only preface to Wikipedia's "discussion" on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender (LGBT) Rights in Jamaica. The whole world is watching and, in a sense, tracking these forum postings on TB.Net.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Jamaica

I don't think that any one would "choose" to be gay in Jamaica. Nuff said

VIDEO: Staceyann Chin on Equality
http://gajamun.org/

CONVERSATION: "Flaunting" Gender & Sexuality in Jamaica
http://gajamun.org/2010/11/05/flaunting-homosexuality/

The citing of these postings on the Web does not give more weight to the pro homosexual argument.Those postings by Zed are just the propaganda of the homosexual lobby and this one by Z contains all the misinformation repeated over and over about the treatment of homosexuals. Why do you all feel the need to draw attention to these writings which have grossly misrepresented us Jamaicans.
Maybe you are trying to attract the gay business to TB. Money is not everything and believe me, I don't think the people of TB would be too happy with that. Maybe we should cease this thread since "the whole world is watching". The notion of not offending homosexuals and their friends, because of the impact it may have on business is just wrong, and is used to scare people in to accepting at least outwardly what they inwardly feel to be wrong. Encouraging hypocrisy is not a good thing. This minority is wielding too much influence over everything. People have as much rights to their beliefs as homosexuals do to theirs, and to try to belittle peoples beliefs and call them homophobic is plain wrong. The word 'gay' was co-opted by this group which totally destroyed its original meaning, and they have deliberately applied the word homophobic to describe an aversion to an act,simply to lend more weight to their arguments.Nobody,especially Christians hates homosexuals,except some misguided people who may also hate 'red men', but 'red men' are not bawling about 'redophobia'. {edited by TBNet} When in Rome, do as the Romans do. {edited by TBNet}
Genes have a bearing on proneness to cancer,but we try to find a cure for cancer,don't we?

WHY DO WE HAVE SO MUCH PROBLEM WITH OUR LAW IN JAMAICA THIS IS THE LAW. IN AMERICA THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CHANGE LAWS HERE TOWARDS GAYS AND LESBIANS AND CANT, BUT OUR COUNTRY IS THE WORST IF YOU CANT ABIDE BY THE LAW, LEAVE,THAT'S WHY THE COUNTRY IS GETTING OUT OF HAND KNOW ONE WANT TO ABIDE BY THE LAW. THIS IS NOT A LAW THAT JUST VOTED ON THIS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, WHY DON'T WE ASK FOR THE LAW TO BE CHANGE FOR RAPIST, MURDERS,THIEF,THERE IS ALONG LIST OF LAW TO BE CHANGE, {edited by TBNet}

Found a poem I remember seeing years ago and think it has bearing on this discussion. It was written during World War II by a man who had been an antt-Semite and an admirer of Hitler. As Nazism took hold in Germany, however, he saw Nazism for what it was: it was not only the Jews Hitler sought to destroy, it was about anyone with an alternate point of view.

"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."

That poem gave me the chills. We are all our brothers keepers.

TO Poem:

No one is coming for anyone. Alternate point of view,what's that? Was this really a poem or prose?
The relevance of this quote is quite the opposite of what you intended. There is a much shorter saying which sums it up: "all it takes for evil men to triumph is for good men to keep silent."
All Dictatorships are well organized minorities, so we can continue with the tolerance bit.. Paederasts will soon form their pressure groups and demand that their rights be respected!! Where will it end? Is there no right or wrong anymore? Is the world flat or round? Am I man or monkey?

Whatever happened to tolerance and acceptance and mental growth?

Seems as if we do not move forward at times.

Its 2011 ...
do something positive for the world we live in.
Help those who need help, be they black, white, straight, gay, young, old or whatever

Just like the one about the chicken and the egg, I don't think this debate/argument will ever be resolved. There are some illogical points being made and systemic illogic cannot be debated.

@Sick and Tired - Brilliant idea about having those who can't abide by the law leave the country. Do you have a problem if we send you our criminals in exchange? I believe we have a larger selection so we could send you an even nicer gift. Manners are manners: Get something and give something in return.

LOVE Brilliant Solutions's idea. With all the awful things happening in the world this gave me a needed laugh.

Brilliant solution,I love my country I love the law that has been on the books for ever, [edited by TB.net]

It's being reported Lady Gaga ended her partnership with Target stores because of their LGBT stance. "Born This Way" is Lady Gaga's minority and gay rights anthem, and as such, she's decided not to partner with a chain retailer known for its donations to anti-gay rights political candidates.

This is for those of you who think that homosexuals destroy neighborhoods, make too much noise, flaunt their lifestyles, impose their wishes on the minority or whatever other words {edited by TBNet} you wish to use.

Now,substitute the words 'gay' or 'homosexual' with the word 'black' and you will see how the rest of the world felt not that long ago about black people. The white world was furious that black people tried to push their rights, their beliefs and their culture on the white population, and used your exact same arguments to oppress them.

And please don't use the argument about homosexuality being a choice. I would then have to ask you, 'when did you choose to be straight'. The only 'choice' there is, is whether or not to act on these feelings and why shouldn't homosexuals enjoy a mutual consenting sex life like everyone else.

To Ridiculous arguments:
You just added one of your own or maybe two. There is no comparison to be made with the attitude to blacks and homosexuals. {edited by TBNet}

Look, Treasure Beach has been a place of loving,law abiding people who cherish the values of family and decency in their community and all we are asking is that it remains that way.Love to all.

Does "loving, law abiding people who cherish the values of family and decency" mean homosexuality is not to be tolerated? If so, does it also mean people who break the law by doing such things as smoking ganja or having sexual relations outside of marriage will not be tolerated?

Family values. Do these include fathering children with multiple women, having too many children to possibly be able to support them and not sending children to school on a regular basis.

"Lover' are you trying to say that homosexuals are not law abiding? There are a lot of places who don't want black people moving into their neighborhood and use your same argument. I'm pretty sure that the people who have been going around stealing lap tops, mobile phones etc in Treasure Bach are not homosexuals

(I'm black by the way)

This topic has been hashed and rehashed with many opinions heard. The posts are starting to get more extreme and less informative/contemplative and therefore we are closing this thread.

Thank you for your understanding.

-TBNet