Does anyone know if a route taxi or public transit is available from Negril to TB? Looking for info and cost.

negril - savanna la mar
sav la mar - black river
black river - Treasure Beach

thats your stops.
each route another routetaxi ;)

I'm sure you can get taxi rides to Black River then on to Treasure Beach. Private driver would run around 100.u.s.

Thanks for the info -- any idea how much the route taxis cost?

route taxi cost can vary depending on the route taken, but should be under $1000J each way

tb to black river
black river to
sav la mar to
negril

or

tb to black river
black river to
whitehouse to
sav la mar to
negril

sometimes the taxi from black river to sav has already left and it might be more convenient to go to sav via whitehouse

i think its much cheaper.
for $J 3000 you can chart a taxi from Negril and you allone in the car. But who want this.. :-))

meggy

Please tell us who carry you for only $3000J Treasure Beach to Negril

Gas must cost at least $2000J or more for the trip.

the real cost for a charter from TB to Negril is more like $100 us. In fact, I was sent a rate from a Negril company that charges $90 US EACH WAY.

I would not pay any fare higher then $75US one way from TB to Negril.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

Would that include the tip, MM?

TIP
:>) :>) :>)
Does Jamaicans tip taxi drivers ?
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

I agree with you MikeyMike, the driver has to make something for his time

MikeyMike, just because someone else may not tip does not mean you should not tip either. Glad I'm not your driver or server. I imagine you never waited tables for a living because if others treated you according to your rules you'd be flat broke.

I'm a Jamaican and if I hire a private taxi and their service is good, I absolutely will tip. I was also a waitress for years, know the efforts made to give good service and am willing to show my appreciation to others for that service with a well earned tip.

I know we've had this conversation with MikeyMike before. It is certainly one's perogative to find the cheapest ride, pay the driver for drinks along the way (while the driver has to wait for you to have your drinks while he would probably rather just get home than have a free drink).

I have always believed in the saying, "You get what you pay for."

I have seen Jamaicans tip. It may not be always be alot, due to the fact that they are short on cash themselves but I have seen it done. And I agree with "someone'. I have had jobs that rely on tips and it's a tough one. Especially to 'serve' some people. And, whether or not another tips is not the issue. I have also been in other countries where a tip is not customary, doesn't mean I didn't do it unless after research I found that it could be offensive. There have also been times I did NOT tip or did NOT leave as big of a tip as I normally would have. It all depended on the service/culture.
I think it's unfair of MikeyMike to assume that Jamaicans don't tip.

Why do taxis charge one price for locals and one price for tourists? I've found that a trip from TB to Black River costs my friend, a local, maybe $250 but when it comes to me it's $500, $750, even $1000 depending on the driver. One time I bought some groceries and the driver wanted $2500!! I don't understand why there are different fares for locals and visitors.

Frequent visitor I can agree with you.
I am also a Jamaican from TB and whenever I visit I pay so much more than the locals. This is not good practice so what I do is find one driver that is respected and honest and use his service for my entire stay even though he has to come from miles away to take me places.
Another thing I do not like is hiring a taxi and then they stop along the way to pick up others and charge then also.
Private Is Private.

I found in the Negril the key word here is "hiring" a taxi. A friend of mine told me at that time it should not cost more than 50J to go from Point A to Point B. I told him I was being charged around 150J. I watched and learned. As long as I at least knew where to get out at, I simply got in the cab and said nothing about where I was going. When I got to where I wanted to go, I told him to stop and the price was 50J. It sucks but it's that way in many countries.

Those who work primarily for tips both in the U.S. and Jamaica are not paid a living wage. This may not be fair but it is true. As consumers we cannot decide not to tip because we believe the employees SHOULD be paid a living wage. In many other countries the wait staff is paid more. In many countries there is a service charge (meaning a tip) added to the check so a tip is not expected except for extraordinary service. In France the tip is added but the patron is normally expected to leave the small change on the table in addition to the tip already included. All this means each country is slightly different. Travelers should learn the customs of the country and tip (or not) accordingly. This is considered acting with good manners in your host country.

Follow the Customs
I agreee with you.
In Jamaica it is not "customary for locals" to tip !
However, it is somehow (not always) expected of tourists.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

MikeyMike, you are a tourist. Follow the tourist customs.

I have traveled to many countries in the world.
It is "customary" to follow the "customs" of the local people, not the tourists.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

MikeyMike I know I will never win this silly tipping battle with you. You are stuck on doing what you think is correct and nothing will change your attitude. I ran an informal and non-scientific survey among waitstaff people in T/B and asked them who they would rather have as customers. All except one said Americans over all others because they are more appreciative both in demeanor and tips. As a former waiter I know I would seek out the table with the people most likely to reward me appropriately for doing a good job. I know you will continue to save a few dollars here and there and never be cognizant of the resentment some must feel after they have provided you with the best service they know how. Such is life.

This is not about winning are losing. It about what is "customary" in a particular country.
The waiters in Turkey say the same thing about Americans. However, it is "customary" for locals to tip in Turkey. Even in the cheapest resturants, locals will leave a few coins.
Most people know that Americans are big "tippers" because they know that it is very "customary" to tip in America.
So why do you not expect the same level of appreciation from Jamaicans and other nationalities ? Also, will you not give the same level of service to people that you do not expect a big tip from ?
I have been in countries where I have tipped, and the waiter gave me the money back thinking that I have over paid the bill. This happens when it is not "customary" to tip in that country, an they are not fimiliar with the American "custom" of tipping.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

Mikey Mike, I agree with Former Waiter. A tipping battle will never be won with you, but as a person who has traveled to many countries as well, and as one who always tries to be 'politically' correct as to the countries customs, perhaps you have never read/nor noticed that they too know American customs. They know that it is 'customary' for Americans to tip, therefore even though they may not 'expect' it they are appreciative of it. The coin turns both ways my friend.

I can also comment as far a travelling a great bit of the world - both 1st world nations and 3rd world nations. In the last five years, I have seen and been to China (both Beijing during the Olympics as well as the rural earthquake zones), Hong Kong, Morocco, Chile, Easter Island, Cuba, Jamaica, as well as doing business in places like Toronto & New York City.

Whether it is Rabat Morocco or Chengdu China (very poor), OR a Manhattan high end restaurant -I'll bet taxi drivers in either of those places, and watiers have not been "schooled" to do those jobs, rather, they choose to do them hoping to make a few extra dollars in tips to help themselves or their family. Geeze, half the waiters in Manhattan are starving actors that need that money to pay for their closet apartments so that they can pursue their acting dreams...and yes, they live in America - a 1st world nation. But they are poor and striving for a better life for themselves.

I don't buy the tip where tipping is expected story. Everyone works to make their money. If one is paid a salary in the corporate world, most of the time you don't get tips - but you sure as heck will work a little harder each day if you know it will help get a better BONUS (read: tip) at the end of the year.

Plus, in Jamaica (a country that you have visited many times and love M.M.), think about what a couple of bucks a day from a couple of fares can do for a family who is on, close to, or below the poverty line.

My food for thought...

MikeMike, you can show your appreciation for good service provided by waiters, taxi drivers, and others who depend upon tips for a majority of their living in two ways. look them in the face and say "thank you" and truly mean it because people feel good when someone has bothered to give them an honest compliment. Then put some cash in their hand because people feel good when they have something tangible to show for their hard work at the end of the day. Another dollar or two from you can make a huge difference. Trust me when I say half the parents in TB do not know where the money is coming from to send their child to school the next day or they do not know how to pay for a needed prescription. if you are a parent maybe you can relate.

I guess my question to Mike is, how do you know that Jamaicans "don't tip"? I've seen them tip many times. It may not be much at times but isn't it a little unfair to say they don't?

But what about the question from Frequent Visitor who asked why taxi fares are different for locals than they are for visitors? I think that having much higher fares for visitors discourages tipping but the two issues are separate.

Where is the OTHER Mike when we need him?

Wow - this is pretty revealing. Do tourists really think they should pay the same amount for taxis (or anything else) as Jamaicans who MUST use them to get where they are going when they make a small percentage in terms of wages and pay twice as much for things like electricity. If you have enough expendable income to fly to Jamaica for a week you can help subsidize the miserably small amount taxi drivers earn. Remember the minimum wage in JA is under $4000 a week - which amounts to about $45US.

I am well aware of what many employers in Treasure Beach pay their employees. These amounts have appalled me for years on end. If tourists knew what their housekeeper, cook, gardener, masseuse or waitress was being paid they would not believe it; the wages do not correspond at all with what the establishments charge. You may wonder why the employees do not quit in disgust. It is because they have nowhere else to go for a job. There are a few known establishments that pay what could be considered a living wage and good benefits and those places have lines of people praying they will get offered a job there.

I have been afraid to use the word CHEAPSKATE on this forum because I thought it would get censored but I see it has been allowed in a different posting. I have no plan to list salary schedules here and I do not think that would be allowed if I did.

I AM saying I see CHEAPSKATES with respect to employers AND tourists in T/B.

I respectfully ask BOTH groups to look in their hearts to compensate people fairly.

Here is a Gleaner article on the minimum wage:

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090501/lead/lead3.html

Our sociologists and economists would best explain why this so. The medical folks can tell the effects of poor diets and the anxieties that result from lack of $. The love of $ is the root of much evil, the lack of $, the root of much depression, illness and many desperate acts.

We also live with a special type of unatural disaster in our high level of servicing the national debt. Anyone know the % of our GDP that is paid to our debtors every year? This sits heavy on us.

I see no articles on a maximum wage. From previous experience, whenever I suggested a more realistic wage in various situations, the usual explanation was that this would spoil it for everyone. All would expect to be paid similarly, regardless of whether they worked with us or not. They just had to be in the same information network. We found other ways of balancing things in our circle.

As with energy useage, supply is one aspect. Efficiency of use the other. Time is not $, but we live in time. Recreation and rest are crucial. Examination of how much time we 'kill' and the consequent reduction can only help, to a point.

I'm glad that the ethic of 'the devil finds work for idle hands' is taken lightly here. I'm witness to hands that never cease and are censored if they appear to be unproductive. I also witness the quantity of anti-anxiety and ulcer medications sold to these busy hands.

I, too, know what many people in Treasure Beach are paid.

Assume someone is fortunate to have a full-time job at minimum wage. Assume they do not get laid off or have their hours reduced when tourism is low (not necessarily the norm). Assume they have one or more children in school. The cost of one year in a public high school, including transportation, equals approximately the gross wages from that one full-time job. Now, assume the family needs to eat; assume they have to pay for occasional doctor visits and prescriptions; assume they have minimal clothing needs because they are a tight budget; assume they have minimal utility bills because they are very careful. Assume they have more than one child in school.

Use your pencil; use your calculator. It doesn't matter because it does not compute.

This is why we started Treasure Beach Foundation. This is why we ask (even beg) for contributions from anyone who cares about the future of the children of Treasure Beach.

If our young people do not get a proper education, they will not be able to develop their potential and take advantage of the many opportunities that await them. They will not have the freedom to choose what avenue to pursue when it comes time for them to find a job.

www.TreasureBeachFoundation.org

While I love to save a buck as much as anyone, I always tip. It makes it easier to sleep at night.
When I used to go to Negril years back, I'd cringe when I heard folks tell the Jamaicans how they'd trade jobs with them in a heartbeat.
No effin' way Jose!
I'll be tipping in Jamaica in two days!
Big snow storm here today but cool runnings come Thursday.

know we can't do it for many reasons but it would be illuminating to see a typical list of salaries for tb

After re-reading my prior post I feel like I need to clarify a bit. When I was in Negril that was several years ago. I was still a bit new to the whole travel thing but I still believe there seems to be a difference between taking a taxi and hiring a taxi in regards to price. You just have to learn your way around this. I'm a single traveler most times and of course am willing to take any deal I can, but I do try to not do so by taking advantage of or 'gipping' the server. In fact, the better deal I get, the bigger I usually tip and don't really save much in the long run. ; )
I would just hope that anyone who gets decent service would repay that person in some way. Most the time this means in way of a tip.
MikeyMike, you have said that Jamaicans don't tip. You don't know that for sure. And even if they didn't...well, I can't tell you what to do, but...

Good to be hearing from you again Milwaukee Mike. You seem to have a generous heart and soul. TB needs more visitors like you. Seem to think of it, most of our visitors ARE like you are. There is one thing about saving a buck and not being a spendthrift. Being cheap at another person's expense is quite different.

I always build tips into my travel budget. I don't have a lot of money, but making sure to have enough to tip the staff in the house where I stay, to tip the waitstaff in the restaurants where I eat, to tip the drivers who bring me from and to the airport ... that's just a standard part of my trip cost. How not?

I know not everyone tips, and not everyone tips well (my mother is a notorious cheap-tipper, which drives me nuts), but I used to live with a bartender and learned just how valuable tips were.

That said, I don't think tipping is "mandatory." I think whether and how much I tip depends on the quality of service I receive. I can, literally, count on one hand the times I haven't given much of a tip or no tip at all. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the people I've dealt with in these situations generally seem invested in treating me well, even if they don't think I'll be a good tipper.

As for route taxi fares, I've only once had someone overcharge me, (asking the same price to carry me from Frenchman's to Billy's Bay that I paid to get to Junction!). Perhaps I get the 'local' fare because -- as long as I don't open my mouth -- most people assume I'm Jamaican!

As to the question "do tourists think they should pay the same price as locals" ?
My answer is YES, except for the entrance fee to tourists sites, national monuments, are any places of interest.
Also, believe it are not I AM A CHEAPSKATE !!
However, I will never tip a taxi driver, unless I request something from him other then a simple trip from point A to point B.
The are many other ways to make a meaningful contribution to people.
I wage this same "Tipping,Customary Are Not?" discussion with my wife.
She also feels differently then I about it.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

This has nothing to do with tipping
or
It has everything to do with tipping?

Since you asked,

shine the light and I know that many others of you would like to know......

I know one person who was a general manager of a guest house, in Treasure Beach, she was paid $1,000J a day, she left because her employer did not want to pay her.

I know another person who is a general manager of another guesthouse in Treasure Beach and that person makes $1,000J a day.

I know another person who works at a third establishment in Treasure Beach and they too are a member of the $1,000J a day club

These are established guesthouses that have been operating for years, some forever in the area. These are typical wages for these guest houses, believe it or not.

I know that there are many other guesthouses who pay their staff fairly and treat their staff with respect.

Remember paradise for you can be something else for the person who is serving you after they walk a 1/2 hour in the hot sun and have $1000J (less than $15) to cook dinner for their families - or they need to buy medicine for the baby
What do you do you choose to do with that maga $1000?

$1,000J is $11.36 US.

How about the masseuse who gets paid $1,500J a day which is $17.04 US. Meanwhile her employer gets $85.00 US for a massage of less than a hour. Fair? I think not.

I wonder how many of these employers pay the taxes for their employees? My guess is not many.

If the two people who posted wages are telling the truth I am shocked. SHOCKED.

This all has to do with treating people like human beings. When it is almost impossible to find other employment most choose to put on a happy face because any job is better than no job. Meanwhile the employers don't know how little their employees may think of them.

On a more positive note, I am glad MikeyMike has a WIFE who disagrees with him. I hope Mrs. MikeyMike bugs him about this on a daily basis.

SHE does !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you read my previous posts you will see that I do tip, and not just because my wife makes me.
I am just expressing my feelings on the subject of tipping when it is not "customary" to tip.
Jamaicans that know me,also know that I am not a "cheapstake"
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

P.S
I think this subjest and thread has reached it limit. So no more from me !! :>)

Dear Shocked

I am telling the truth, I do not consider this a matter to lie or joke about.

Possibly one of those guest houses could be the one that you stay in when you come here.

I am most certainly telling the truth and you know if I know about 3 employers like this that there are many more and I am sure that this is not unique to Treasure Beach.

Maybe some of you need to start asking questions of the staff that are looking after you so very well, thats how I found out what I now know. I will never stay in or direct guests to those guesthouses, I can promise you that.

MikeyMike, you are probably correct about this thread where it concerns you.

I continue to be concerned about the very low wages being paid to so many people in TB. I figure the employers know better and they are taking advantage of their employees but I cannot do anything about this. What I CAN do is to tip especially well for good service. I hope others do so too.

People do the right thing and God will bless you.
TIP...TIP...TIP.

OMG. I fear if I ask employees about their wages they will smile and tell me everything is fine. How do I get to the bottom of this mess without being too intrusive?

Did you ask a sales clerk in any Black River shop what she makes? Or a bartender at any Jamaican bar? Or a gas station attendent, or a bank teller, etc.

Have you compared what a worker in NYC makes vs. in rural America? Or Canada vs. France? Or a CEO vs a janitor?

I challenge you to come to Jamaica, start a business, pay your employees a comparable rate to what they would make for doing the same work where you live and see how long you can stay in business. There seems to be this illusion that villas and guest houses are making money hand over fist. I'd love to find out which one is doing this. All the same challenges facing any businesses in other parts of the world face Jamaica as well including high taxes, high utility rates, etc. Also keep in mind many Jamaicans do not pay a monthly mortgage or monthly car payments or monthly credit card bills, etc.

It would be great to pay staff a better salary. Are you willing to pay more per night for your stay so this can happen?

As the owner of a guest establishment in T/B I am painfully aware of what employees at other such establishments are paid because our employees share that information with me. Do we pay as much as we would have in the US? Not exactly but close. Do we pay more than other establishments here? Definitely yes. We do not do this because we are making huge profits. In fact, we have lost money for the past two years. We pay what we do because we respect and care about and trust our employees. We have a huge rate of return guests and referrals and we are sure it is not only our establishment that makes our guests want to return, it is because we have excellent and happy employees and all our guests comment on their excellent, can-do attitudes. Unhappy employees don't give off the same vibes, and guests sense that.

It would be great to pay staff a better salary. Are you willing to pay more per night for your stay so this can happen?

Exactly.

I tip the best I can. I carry what I can for people.

"The bottom of this mess"??? What mess?

I think Salary for Thought summed up my reaction when I read some of the replies. I appreciate their sympathetic reaction to the low wage, but I think a careful examination of both sides of the exchange need to be looked at before making decisions.Realities are realities.

My humble advice is to not ask how much they make. Would you tell someone if the roles were reversed?

These guest houses are paying less than min. wage and thats Jamiacan min. wage
These guest houses are charging you the tourist top rates for your room, no discounts for you, cause the staff is low paid.
That is just not right, when your staff is hungry and you got a fat belly and I guess thats the point I wish to make

These guest houses are charging you the tourist top rates for your room, no discounts for you, cause the staff is low paid

I do not agree that all guest houses in TB charge "the top tourist rates for rooms with no discounts"

Is there any part of the government that checks to see if people are paid at least the minimum wage?

JD
The conversation is in regards to certain guesthouses only, nowhere did I say all guest houses were guilty of these type of practices.
Sorry if you misunderstood.

2-TIERED TB ECONOMY: SALARIES/TIPPING?

The advice given to guests at the "top flight villas" of Treasure Beach, according to Beach Villas by Tiverton House", listed in the Where to Stay Section, is that a minimum of 15% gratuity for Rental Staff is customary and required.

These are obviously cherished and enviable jobs when business is good and sustained.

Judging by a random villa choice from the Tiverton House offerings:

VILLA B:
• US$3600/week (5-6 guests) for 18 week High Season:
>>Maximum 16 week Rental Income: US$64,800
• $US3000/week (5-6 guests) for 34 week Low Season
>>Maximum 34 week Rental Income: US$102,000

TOTAL MAXIMUM POTENTIAL YEARLY INCOME:**
US$166,800 X Occupancy Rate of 40% (Conservative):
US$66,720 X 15% Staff Gratuity = US$10,000 (approx) for 20 averaged weeks

Gratuity Normally divided thus:

IN THIS EXAMPLE
(About 20 weeks worth of Tipping + Salaries, handled differently by various villa owners for "down-time", when villa is not rented)

• House Manager/Cook: 45%......US$4500
• Housekeeper: 35%...................US$3500
• Garden/Pool: 20%....................US$2000

These would seem to be living wage jobs if the employers are able to achieve high Occupancy Rates and maintain their Staffs during slow periods.

**From Yearly Income all kinds of Expenses must be calculated:
Salaries; Taxes (Local & Foreign); Fees; Insurance; Marketing Expenses; Maintenance & Repairs; Improvements...

Tiverton House Site:

www.jamaicaescapes.com/Villas/TheBuccaneer/TheBuccaneer02.html

TREASURE TOURS:

We are curious how you advise your Marketing Clients to deal with Gratuities and Salaries (during Occupancy & Down-time) for the Staffs of the Villas & Guest Houses which you represent(???)

Treasure Tours acts as a booking agent only. Therefore, we adhere to whatever the policy is of the particular villa we are representing.

Most, not all, villas we represent have the following policy.

Up to 15% of the cost of the accommodations divided among the staff is the recommended gratuity. However, gratuity should always be based on the quality of service given.

The salaries for villa employees are determined by the villa owners and not by Treasure Tours.

Mr. Ward, are you saying the following are considered living wages jobs, and are you suggesting the following figures for total annual compensation (meaning salaries plus tips) in your illustration?

• House Manager/Cook: 45%.......US$4500
• Housekeeper: 35%..................US$3500
• Garden/Pool: 20%...................US$2000

As JAKES is the largest service employer in the TB area, and would seem to be able to set the Wage Rates locally, does anyone know how much above the minimum wage, they pay their employees from Managers, Cooks, Masseuses to Gardeners?

At the Minimum Wage of J$4070 (US$45) per week...
J$211,640 (US$2,350) per year for Jamaica

THE SUBJECT MATTER, of this thread evolved from Route Taxis to matters concerning Just Compensation and Tipping/Gratuities, whether customary or not, on the South Coast scene.

My Point (to Please Clarify) was that in certain circumstances, a class of Treasure Beach Villa Owners, represented by "honourable" Marketing Agents, insist on their Guests coughing up a Required 15% of the Villa's Price in Tips.

If, by some miracle, every week in Treasure Beach were Little Calabash Fests or "must rest in TB moments", and the Villa B were able to achieve a 100% Occupancy (15% X US$166,800), the Staff of 3, potentially, would be entitled to US$25,020, yearly, in Tips alone.
The Villa Owner's contract or policy on Base Salary over and above Tips would be another matter.

IN THIS REVISED (IMPOSSIBLE?) EXAMPLE OF GRATUITIES:

• House Manager/Cook: 45% (X US$25,020).......US$11,259
• Housekeeper: 35%......................................US$ 8,757
• Garden/Pool Caretaker: 20%......................... US$ 5,004

COMPARE TO THE FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT OF LOWLY MINIMUM WAGE IN JAMAICA: J$4,070/week (US$45) X 52 wks =
J$211,640 (US$2350)

Keep in mind all the financial burdens that these wages/tips must provide for, as exemplified in Villa Owner, Karen Kennedy's example of Education Costs for the children, and further harsh realities of electrical, water, food and clothing bills...what are referred to as the bare necessities.

What might be a better Exercise in judging what might be considered a Living Wage for the area would be to inquire into the Wages/Tipping policies of the largest Service Employer (JAKES) in the area, as it would be assumed that they would establish the fair market wage/tip policy above Minimum.

We all know that, after sharing catch-up stories, philosophies, and jokes with Dougie at Jake's Bar, that we feel happily generous to "drop a money" with him.
As for restaurant meals, we've never noticed anything on the Bill recommending or Service Charging for Servers, Cooks, other help...as to masseuses, gardeners, boatmen who might have been indulgent...is it just a "gut" feeling of tipping depending on where we have roamed or what is our personal custom?

what ever salary anyone earns per week its there personal business.IF they have a problem with it they should take it up with mangement.they certainly dont have to discuss it here.

To all those requesting to know what others make, please tell us what YOU make first.

I have to agree with Slade and Eric on this one. I think it is unrealistic to compare salaries from one country to another and even from one organization to another. Across the world there are organizations which are more desireable to work for than others. It does not necessarily mean the one is bad, just different policies. For example, Southwest Airlines sounds like a great organization to work for, but that doesn't necessarily mean American Airlines is a horrible employer.

I believe Slade said it best, "what ever salary anyone earns per week its there personal business. IF they have a problem with it they should take it up with mangement.they certainly dont have to discuss it here."

Salerys shoud be privat I think to. I knows jake dos not pays the hihest ones in the distric. jake is not in the bottem salery maybe in the middle.

HOW DID THIS TOPIC STRAY FROM TIPPING TAXI DRIVERS
TO HOW MUCH HOTELS/VILLAS/GUEST HOUSES PAY THEIR STAFFS?

Stay on the subject and stop meddling into peoples business.That sure do not belong here.

I would like to add my two cents to his comments and questions. I have some guesses about things but I am choosing only to state facts I am sure of.

I will mention JAKES only because it has been referenced more than once in this string. I do not work there. I do not have access to their payroll records. I do know many people who work there and I only know what those particular people earn. Based on what I know I will say JAKES does NOT set the wage rates locally. Many other places I know pay their average worker more than JAKES does. I am not talking about the head or management people at JAKES. I am talking about their average employee. Other places pay less than JAKES. I would assume JAKES is somewhere in the middle of the pay scale.

Here are some other things people might find interesting. There are establishments and I will not name them that POOL the tips. So if someone gives a tip that person must turn it in and share it with others. This is fair in a way but it is also unfair to workers like a waitress who would get a big tip for great service and have to share it with someone who slacks off. If a tip is put on a charge card the worker often sees only part of it. It seems more the custom to pool tips if they are added to a credit card bill. My advice to tippers is to tip in cash and put that money directly into the hand of the person you want to have it.

Another thing concerns room taxes. It is VERY interesting some places charge taxes on top of a room rate and others include it. It is even more interesting different places charge different percentages for taxes when all establishments are required to pay the identical room tax to the government. I often wonder if some guests realize they are getting ripped off by paying more taxes than the government collects.

The origional post was for info on route taxis and the fares.... and that was answered in the next few postings! Maybe it is time to close this thread?

WHEN ERIC RETORTS: "... those requesting to know what others make, please tell us what YOU make". OR, Slade, regarding salaries (wages) being personal matters misses my point.

The thrust of the inquiry is not "busy-body-ily " searching out what Collen the cook makes or Dennis, the gardener makes, or Teddy, the security man, or what a particular investnent banker visiting TB makes.

It responds to the nagging question your daughter asks, when after befriending Carla, the room maid at your hotel, and learning that she lives with her two children on an unmapped lane in Mobay.
Later walking around beyond the craft market with your daughter looking into a "shanty town", we realize that Carla might live in such conditions.

Your daughter asks if her boss and we are paying her enough, so that Carla and her family can have a nice life and watch TV.
"How can we know what she needs and how much money we can help out with?"

We try to tell her that back home in the US, local rates for different job descriptions are generally known from newspaper classified ads or from companies publically state the rates.

"No mystery...no secret, in good times, people might hop from job to job chasing that known or posted wage."

She later asks: Isn't there a Treasure Beach Gazette (my precocious madamoiselle) that has classified ads, so that we can try to figure out the score of how to reward more people, who we can help?

I mumble something about sometimes people can be envious of what someone else makes, or its really none of the business of people working side-by-side.
Sometimes steady work might keep someone tied to an employer, or a profitable businesses might reward for merit, or give "benefits" besides money, but it's complicated and we can't solve what we might perceive as low wages or poverty on a visit here or a visit there.

She asks: "Daddy, why not? What's the right thing to do?"

"...local rates for different job descriptions are generally known from newspaper classified ads..." This is exactly what I was thinking myself. An advertised starting wage does not reveal exactly what an employee is actually hired for, or what he/she is paid later on. I think the gist of these posts is directed towards general wages in the industry, and not towards what a particular individual makes. This kind of information is usually public knowledge.

Your point is well taken, Stu. You're trying to gather information and use it as a teaching point for your daughter. And I appreciate the next to last paragraph talking about the complicated but very real issues of appropriate wages, privacy, and perception vs. reality to someone not familiar with local ways and mores.

I also applaud your daughter for her kind and inquisitive nature. Send her to this link when she's 18 and watch what she can do in the world :-)

However (you knew there was a however, didn't you?)...
I do sense the "busy-body-ism" and "this is a travesty that I as someone who has spent a couple weeks there completely understand and must now solve to help those poor people" tone in other posts here.

I advocate for more critical thinking and less reactionary response.

Eric and Stu, I advocate for something in the middle of both your responses but I must say I am leaning a bit more in Stu's direction. As a frequent visitor to TB I will admit I was shocked by what I perceived as the poverty in the area the first time or two or three I visited. Though it was nothing like Haiti, another place I'd visited, the place we stayed in made our housekeeper's home look hideous by comparison. She had no electric and no indoor toilet and no inside kitchen. This was not the way she preferred it but this is what she could afford on her wages of $50 US per month. Granted, we did not see anyone starving like we did in Haiti.
Most places in TB now have electric and running water inside. Most people have a cell phone. Things are still not as rosy as Eric might be imagining. Work is difficult to get. Wages are not necessarily fair. Medical care for anyone without insurance is substandard, not that we can say anything better about the US. Food is expensive and food with good nutrition such as brown rice instead of white rice is even more expensive. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand why there is such a problem in TB with obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes because it has a lot to do with the poor diets. Most locals don't have computers in their homes which makes it difficult to compete with those who do, especially students.
So what can a well meaning visitor do? First you need to understand to compare how you live will almost always exceed the way the workers in TB live. I am guessing you live better than anyone who might provide housekeeping or gardening services for you back home but you probably haven't seen where they live. Then you can bring some new or gently used items to the Women's Group where they will be put to good use. Next you can tip the people who perform services for you well, especially if they have gone above and beyond. After that, you can patronize local businesses including places that are not the usual tourist spots. Finally, you can contribute to some of the NGOs that work to assist the people of TB.
You can also keep returning and you can suggest your friends and relatives do likewise. Good tourists are becoming the lifeblood of TB and will help each and every resident get ahead.

For Eric and Stu

Many have current (electric), but many still have no inside water or bathroom

Very well said

Thank you

For the record, I am not talking about the quality of life for workers in TB. I am merely saying that there are some who have a knee jerk reaction to things which they see/read without fully understanding the whole situation.

I think its a natural reaction; I know I've done it before. But when people act knowing only a small subset of the facts, a truly effective outcome is not very likely.

Again, I advocate for more critical thinking and less reactionary response.

For Eric and Stu, I applaud your coming up with solutions that work for you.

Brilliant, For Eric & Stu.

Eric, I admire you, but I feel you are being somewhat unfair. Stu seems to be very interested in Treasure Beach and has done a lot of analysis of what he has seen and read and overheard. I feel you are implying people who have not lived in Treasure Beach for long periods as you have done are not qualified to make intelligent observations or recommendations.

For Eric and Stu

Many have current (electric), but many still have no inside water or bathroom

Very well said

Thank you

What does NGO mean?

Dear Question,

NGO means Non Government Organisation.

Thank you. Which NGOs work specifically for the people of Treasure Beach? Could someone give me a brief rundown on what these different NGOs do for the residents?

BREDS, Treasure Beach Foundation, iJamaica and TBWG are the ones I heard of.

Treasure Beach Foundation is the group that awards the scholarships. They have done other things for the schools. They have also assisted after the hurricanes.

The Treasure Beach Women's Group (TBWG) is among the most active groups currently serving the needs of the community. The Treasure Hunt Craft Shop is one of our biggest sources of income and takes pride in offering craft items made right here in Treasure Beach and the surrounding area. Other fund raising efforts include our annual Walkathon, Bingo Nights, Fashion Shows, Bake Sales, Yard Sales and more. Fundraising efforts sponsor various medical clinics, the kids Christmas Party, gift bags for the elderly, and many more programs to benefit the community. For more information, visit our community center and craft shop on Old Wharf Road or read more about us on our website www.tbwgjamaica.com

So, what is the route from Montego Bay to TB via route taxi? I assume it would NOT be via Negril?

HA! Now there is a can of worms. Before anyone answers this question, I want to point out that Breds {edited by TBNet} took many DONATIONS for helping people after hurricane disasters. The money did not come from Breds principals. An important distinction.

Excuse me NGO but these sorts of organizations are normally funded through donations. Sometimes some of these donations come from the principals of an organization, but usually most of the money comes from outside sources. I don't think most people believe the money Breds hands out comes from the people in charge of Breds. They decide HOW the money is used. I would doubt the money given out by ANY of the NGOs in Treasure Beach comes from the heads of those organizations either. If I am wrong I await correction.

Not sure what your point is, NGO, but I gather that it has to do with collecting donations rather than the money coming from the people who work at Breds?

You're absolutely right that Breds took donations after Ivan and Dean, just as the Treasure Beach Foundation and this site (TreasureBeach.Net) did. We then used those donations to supply roofing materials, metal for fish pots, etc.

Treasure Beach Foundation is a nonprofit organization (NGO) that benefits the people of Treasure Beach. We concentrate on educational needs for students. Our most important ongoing program is providing opportunities to students graduating from Sandy Bank Primary School through our competitive scholarship program to top-rated high schools; we have awarded 22 scholarships to date, and some of these students are now in their fourth year of high school. We have also provided learning materials and other important items for both Sandy Bank Primary and Sandy Bank Basic Schools. Treasure Beach Foundation assisted the community with materials to repair and rebuild after the devastation caused by Hurricane Ivan in 2004 and Hurricane Dean in 2007. Our primary sources of fundraising are from proceeds of our annual villa raffle, donations from individuals, and corporate grants.

No one on either our Board of Directors or Board of Advisors is paid; all their work is done on a voluntary basis. Everyone on our Board of Directors makes a substantial financial donation to Treasure Beach Foundation on an annual basis.

Because we are a U.S.-based nonprofit that has achieved 501 C 3 status, all donations made to us by U.S. residents are deductible to the full extent of the law. Our donors, however, come from many different countries.

For more information, please see www.TreasureBeachFoundation.org.

Interesting the Board members for Treasure Beach Foundation contribute cash in addition to their time. This impresses me. The work they do also impresses me.