I recently saw a picture of the house site in Treasure Beach which seems to be causing some concern to many.
The top of the dune is now gone, and it looks like the amount of cement, sand and large gabion-basket wall (its about 3 people high) will most likely have a dastardly affect on the immediate area of coastline.
In other countries the dunes are protected.
When are we ever going to we wake up and start preserving and protecting our unique homeland?

Here is the photo.

Quote: "When are we ever going to we wake up and start preserving and protecting our unique homeland?"

In my opinion it won't happen until the government and the citizens of Jamaica start thinking long term preservation and that profitability is measured in more than dollars and stops thinking of the short term financial gain. The movie "Jamaica For Sale" shows this very clearly.

Miss McCaulay from JET, is this truly legal? It looks like the beach is being ruined. Is this beach private? Even if it is not private, is it legal to run heavy construction equipment on it?

Is this the Bicknell's place?

I am so unhappy seeing this. I've walked that piece of beach so many times, have sat there processing my sadness after losing a loved one. To see it looking like this, to see someone tear up this beautiful land with no regard for the land or for any other person, this really hurts my heart.

In all the reading I've done, the point is made again and again, that there are no private beaches in JA, that all beaches are public, so this destruction of the beach would seem to be entirely illegal.

Can anyone provide more info?

Good bye Treasure Beach hello Dubai beach.

What is so upsetting about this particular construction in comparison to those houses that are existent from Calabash Bay beach and beyond ,is the sea walls extending out too much where it will block the part of people walking along the beach,that i am totally against or could this just be a double stanard ,development has being going on for a very long time which has been affecting the turtle ,but did we stop, no ,i wonder what some of us would\ve been like if we really has the land and money to build our dream house in Treasure Beach and believe me when i say this i wish Old Wharf was never develop.Forgive me if iam missing the fact.

This is a manipulated/photoshoped joke. Right?

This wat we been talking about from when, but more time we talk our comments dont get posted, once persons could walk from black spring to great bay bluff, everybody trying to capture the beach for themselves

WHERE EXACTLY IS THIS TAKING PLACE?

Yes, it is Bicknells place.

The heavy equipment also seems to go beyond the high water mark towards the water .. surely to have such heavy equipment there is RUINING the waterfront ironshore and coral??????

Who (which Gov. body) is responsible for watching this to make sure the construction is not destroying what is NOT Bicknells, but what belongs to the residents of Jamaica, that should be protected????

This was a gorgeous piece of land in an ideal place. Now it is a devastated piece of land in an ideal place. I would say more about how I feel but I know TB.net would withhold my words.

This is the sort of event that will trigger a full scale war between the government and the people, look at our beautiful beach that god has given us, [edited by TB.]

OMG, it looks like the guy captured the entire reef beside Mary Bay. Can't someone do something about this [edited by TB.Net]?

To all those writing in with such passion I ask you, what is within our power to change the situation? Trust me, I feel passionate about our coastline as well. This construction is happening right after my personal favorite swimming hole. But what can I/we do about it? It is privately owned land.

I'm sorry but I guess I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from so much passion voiced regarding other issues on this site and then when some folks take lots of time and effort in organizing meetings or environmental conferences to try to see what we can do . . . no one shows up . . . We can talk the talk, but who is going to start the walk.

I will say I have heard they plan on covering up the gabion baskets with sand once it is complete. I also have not been stopped when walking past there. There is still a good deal of sand covered reef out from where the baskets are (which the photo doesn't show), so I had no problem walking on past it.

wow. i am shocked.

people rise up. this constructiion should have never have got off ground. obviously the builder does not care about the preservation of the land.

this should be stopped immediately. citizens do ur civic duty and stop it.

this is totally unacceptable.

Bway dis one jus bruk mi heart........

Two threads below are closely related to this one:
“Power Boat Ramp” and “Air Strip”.

It all comes together, and it ain’t pretty.

Rebecca is right: lots of talk, little walking the walk.

People like Karen Kennedy and Diane the Savvy Environmentalist devote time and energy and expertise to trying to get the people of TB to organize, protest, gather signatures, and what happens? Doesn't seem like much, alas.

By nige on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 05:11 pm: Edit Post
Bway dis one jus bruk mi heart........

Fi mi too.

where was this house located? It's a shame!!!!!!!

Am I missing a trick here? Surely, before anyone can put up a house or, indeed, interfere with a natural shoreline one has to obtain planning permission to do so? This would mean that the proposed development would have to be publicly posted and then approved/refused by the local civic authority.

Maybe not, it would appear, hence all the raggle taggle development one sees across the Island.

Let me just say that in the UK if a house or any sort of development were to be errected illegally then the owner would be enforced to pull it down - full stop.

Jamaica has planning regulations they just don't seem to enforce them properly - leading to situations like the Golden Sands one a few years back when an illegal beach wall started to be constructed to the consternation of locals. A civic disturbance ensued and NO wall has been built! Is there a message here?

Anyway, I am coming out next week to see for myself what is going on. But really, it is the sun and sea I want to see first!

It's a great pity that there is no clear and simple official or other avenue that would allow communities to guide development within their areas. Surely after 1,500+ years of uninturrupted habitation in a unique habitat of great natural beauty, the current descendants deserve voice in the runnings that affect them. The feelings are there but there is no vehicle for their expression.

The beaurocracy has not yet included all the externalities that result from breaking ground and shifting earth/sand, flora and fauna in planning permissions. Maybe this is good. Maybe best if the communities were left to develop their own modes of protection, with central assist. Unfortunate too that the National Trust does not have staff and means to collect and record any artifacts that would probably surface in such a dramatic 'private' dig.

Has the effect on turtles of probable night lighting been considered?

Where is the washing and lav sludge going to go?

Manipulating the terrain is straightforward. Creating private spaces with dramatic views also. Just need plans and the means of carrying them out. Becoming part of a community starts with eye to eye and mouth to ear. Unless one needs separation. Pity if that were so.

I live in England and if I wish to build on my land or extend my property I have to apply to the Local Council for planning permission.The decision is never a foregone conclusion whoever or whatever you are. Where are your elected officials;councilors and Members of Parliament and what are they doing about what is happening? Can't the community get together and write to the national newspaper and better still e-mail the Gleaner and get them to send a journalist to cover the story in the hope of stopping the destruction of this beautiful community and its coastline which is heaping up major problems for the future. Just a suggestion because like everybody else I feel so angry.

Where is the Treasure "Beach"Citizen's Association?,seems as if they are in league with this, no more protests, no representation on behalf of the people. [edited by TB.Net]previously they protested against eroded roads,now there is no concern about the erosion, destruction of our being. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

It seems everything is for sale if the price is right. The Bicknells bought that land from someone. The person who sold it to the Bicknells bought it from someone else. At one point - not so long ago - that land was owned by someone who was probably born and still lives in Treasure Beach. Each time the land was sold the new person who owned and then sold it made money, probably a lot of money.

I am not saying to never sell a piece of land because that might not be a realistic thing to do. Some people not born in Treasure Beach buy land and do their very best to respect that land. If there is beach near the land, they do their best not to hurt the beach. They do their best to be good neighbors. They do their best to help the community.

Other people buy land and do whatever they want, and no one even tries to stop them. The new owners figure if they own land it is theirs to do whatever they want, and it seems they are right. They cannot be bothered with what they think are "silly" things like turtles or trees or sand dunes.

The ONLY thing I see working is for the citizens of Treasure Beach - the people born there - to care enough to get TOGETHER and fight this from continuing to happen. If you wait for the government you will be waiting until it is too late. If you wait for someone else to do it for you it will be too late.

Will the people in Treasure Beach who read this PLEASE care enough to spread the word. Tell your neighbors, your relatives and your friends. If not it will be too late.

Do not count on other people to come help you and to save Treasure Beach. Treasure Beach is YOURS to save. Working together you CAN do it, even against rich people.

So where is Diane now that we really need her?

By Norman on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 10:13 am:
So where is Diane now that we really need her?
******************

Presumably, you are speaking of DIANA, not DIANE. To everyone who is waiting for Diana or any ONE person to solve this problem is like believing in Santa Claus. Admittedly, Diana cares an immense amount, but she is ONE person and she does not even live in Treasure Beach. There are HUNDREDS of intelligent, caring adults living in Treasure Beach who have the power to band together and make things happen. Why do they wait for someone else to come save them?

Stop complaining. START DOING. Or it will be too late.

So again I ask, "What are we supposed to do about it?"

To Norman, I would assume Diana not Diane is busy with the 3000 other issues she has to deal with. I'm sure it will come as a surprise to all but I would assume she is not checking TB.Net every 30 minutes.

To Native, I assure you WE ARE AWAKE. There are many of us here including the very productive Citizens Alert Group working very hard on many community issues and events. We are not sitting here on our hands doing nothing as many of these messages are insinuating.

We are not in England, America, Canada, or elsewhere, but in Jamaica where we have to abide by the Jamaican laws and ways.

Here is a suggestion, I ask all who are accusing those of us who live here of doing nothing to please stop. It is insulting and not true. I ask those of you who feel so passionate about this to do more than write a message on this board about it. Because simply writing a message on this board will not accomplish a thing. Then when you have put in many hours of trying to see what you can do and how you can make a difference then share your postivie ideas with us. More negativity accomplishes nothing.

Sorry for my anger showing through, but I am just plain tired of being accused of not caring and when sweeping generalizations are continually thrown out about the community's behavior, that includes me as I am a member of this community.

And just as an FYI, I took it upon myself to take an informal survey. In the last two days I have been asking the born and raised TB community members about this issue. Well, some didn't know about it. Those that did mostly thought it was really cool and told those who hadn't seen it they should go look at it. More than one described it as "pretty". I asked someone what would happen if we held a protest rally and they said the only ones who would show up would be folks who wanted to look on and see who was protesting but he highly doubted any TB residents would show up. Results of survey: no TB resident I spoke with was offended by this or worried about it.

So what do we learn from this? To me it says we will not get the community to rally around something which very few believe is a problem and, therein lies the problem. We need to educate persons into the long term affects of poor fishing practices as the sea is being fished out, making efforts to save the reef, beaches, turtles, etc. Until that happens you can talk all you want but no significant change will occur until the reason for keeping good environmental practices are understood. We need to have more environmental workshops (the last one we had to beg and force folks to attend) especially in the schools. Oh, but then the government just slashed the budget for JET to continue with this . . . . Are you starting to see where my frustrations lie? Again, the movie "Jamaica for Sale" clearly shows the pattern the government, both JLP and PNP, have continued to adopt of sell, sell, sell and build, build, build without worrying about any environmental issues or keeping the beaches public, etc. With this as our teacher what do you expect actions to be?

Okay, I'll shut up now. Sorry for the venting but I hope some of you will have your eyes opened to the greater issue at hand. What one person is doing and attempting to stop that one person's construction project will be like the little boy's finger in the hole in the dam when the dam is about to burst.

Rebecca you speak the truth and it is sad. I do not know any answers but I will try to think of something. If I do I will post my thoughts and I pray people will not laugh at any of my suggestions even if they do not sound so intelligent. I pray other people will try to think of good suggestions too. All I know is there is no magic answer. I am sorry if we have insulted you.

Many months ago two people that I know of did go to the Black River office and requested to see the proposed plans for this house. Although submitted building plans are supposedly public knowledge, they were both refused.
Its not as if people have not tried to find out. And if they had found out, maybe this horrendous wall (and possibly also horrendously large house) would have been curbed somewhat to scale.

You should take a look for yourselves at "the wall" if you're in the area.

To respond to Rebecca's observation about residents not being offended by this wall (although many I have spoken to are horrified):
I think that Jamaicans on a whole nowadays are impressed solely with the amount of money being spent, regardless of style, if environmentally friendly or not, or if illegal "privatization" even prevents them access to a beach they have used for generations. They are seemingly blinded by $$$$ and are (sadly) impressed by largeness of structures, and how much concrete has been used in a building. That money criteria seems to determine status these days.

Education is needed I agree - but who is there to teach?????

rebecca
very well said ....
"We need to have more environmental workshops (the last one we had to beg and force folks to attend) especially in the schools."

sad to see....
the youth need to be educated about enviromental matters so that they can know to care about it

to others who have been posting comments...

diana is truly an amazing woman, she can only provide guidance and direction - it is the community members that must take action

do not forget that many treasure beach residents do not have access to computers/internet so you will not hear their thoughts here....and you heard what rebecca has said that no one who she spoke with who live in the community is offended by it - that does not make it right, it just makes it the way it is

rebecca is right, if you feel so passionate about this then do more than write a message on this board

Any connections? See bottom of page.

http://www.sportsjamaica.com/read_article.php?id=12489

Am gonna just quickly say a few things........ suggestions that is. Sundays are generally reserved for football, but this is serious.

Rebecca, it can be hurtful when you are wrongly accused. I feel your pain.

My suggestion is this: step one seems to already have been tried which someone posted saying they went to the office to see proposed plans of the building and was denied.

step two...... would be to contact ur local councillor who is also the mayor, mr jeremy palmer he is also an attorney so he surely would know or can easily access the laws surronding this issue. If that does not work.

step 3: contact your MP mr christopher tufton, we all know his portfolio is ministry of agriculture and LANDS and not just farm LANDS, it includes all LANDS including the beach. Under his portfolio is also fisheries and aquaculture, am sure this does some kinda damage to fishing etc.

when u all are doing these things, put it in writing and even print this thread and bring it in person to their ofices when you all are planing to meet these representative. meet them in person not just the staff in their offices.

plan to bring educated residents on the matter, not the ones who thing its "cool" or "pretty" on the damage this can do to their communuity. bring the kids from sandy bank primary and basic school and pedro plains all age who are the future of the community, cuz its them who will suffer not their parents and grand parents, tell these kids what will happen to their community and bring them to see the building. you got to let them know the seriosuness of it, so they can be fearful, cuz reality is the truth will fear them.also ask owners of business to join in on theis effort.

UNITY IS STRENGHT

now if that does not work, this is where it gets nasty.

contact the jamaica information services, rjr, cvm tv, tvj, jamaica observer, the gleaner.

go up to malvern and conatct the science resouce center, they can probably break down and explain what this can cause. Get all pertinent info.

Contact the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica, their motto is "preserving the future ..... today" they sould be ready to help with this

1B Norwood Avenue
Kingston 5
Jamaica
West Indies

Tel: (876) 960-6744, 960-7954, 960-3224, 960-7125
Fax: (876) 920-8999

http://www.efj.org.jm/

also the jamaica environment trust at

Mailing Address
Earth House
11 Waterloo Road
Kingston 10, Jamaica W.I.

Registered Office
58 Half Way Tree Road
Kingston 10, Jamaica W.I.

Contact Numbers
Telephone:
(876) 960-3693
(876) 960-9783
(876) 960-9385

Fax (876) 926-0212

http://www.jamentrust.org/

E-mail Address
jamentrust@cwjamaica.com

So plan a media day, have all letters to the representatives, signatures from citizens and copies of this thread will be presented to the media. Invite the media down to tb to view whats happening, invite the mp and councillor again, they will show up this time cuz they all love the media spot light. also the kids, citizens and business owners should be asked to be present on that media day.

If the mp and councillor does not show up, then also use the media to expose the issue at hand as well as that these politicians are no help to their communty and does not care about the future of the kids and the community.

This should do something, even if at the end of all this nothing happens, it will show a community can work togther and at least citizens can feel satisfied that they did their part and it will also be lesson for the kids.

so good can come out of this either way.

See how important, you all are, i am well over in my footall time, good thing my Patriots not playing today.

Connections? Tankweld?
No wonder, easy for them with all that heavy equipment available,I am sure the project won't be stopped, [edited by TB.Net]

I support what Mr Wint suggested, this is a long term effort. Good to have some starting addresses and names. The opinions of the community and the contrast of the super natural Bluff and the machined seafront will tell their own message. The newspeople are starved for interesting social struggle stories. No matter if the outcome is judged inevitable for whatever reasons, the approaches suggested will leave their trail and wake some sleepers that should be vigilant to the damage being done.

Yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Any disruption caused however, is all quantifiable. No aesthetics there, pure applied science.

Unless! There is a final outcome that will cause surprise. I so love good endings. Born romantic. A magnificent Eco-House that exemplifies the use wise of current technology to alter millenia formed wonders into man made magnificence. What else could be worthy of such a location, location, location.

Turtle House, with beaches and protection for the animals. With motion sensors that dim lights and viewing windows to witness the ancient ritual of egg laying. Disneyesque still and not 'Deep Green'.

The donated $700K could initiate a reforestation project, the greening of TB, visible year by year. Giving us all fruit and shelter free of charge. Surely cutting some lignum vitae and buldozing some land did not eat up this donation and the others?

Why not?

Great ideas Robert Wint.

I called Greenpeace Int'l to report this development. Unfortunately they mostly deal with things "on the macro level" and don't have the resouces to send someone to TB. They did suggest contacting an NGO in JA and mentioned NEPT (Negril Area Environmental Protection Trust). When I googled that org., I was only able to get pictures with something akin to a mission statement and I did not see a phone number. As someone else suggested, Ms McCauley cannot be relied on for everything, so if there are other orgs in Ja who are able to help, we should try to contct them all. There is strength in numbers.

If this is not a sin, then I don't know what is. To all of us who love the area, residents and visitors, wake up. If this is allowed to stand, it will be the beginning of the end. I applaud what Rebecca (and others less visible) are doing. It doesn't surprise me that many in the community take the nonchalant view they have; it only hi-lites the need for environmental education.

Hi everyone.
I'm here. I don't manage to check TB.net every day, that's all. As someone said, I'm trying to deal with so many issues just like this one, with an ever declining set of resources.

So here's what I know about the development at Old Wharf, which I understand is owned by Bruce Bicknell. He did apply to the parish council and his plans were approved. These plans are public documents - but when folks from TB asked to see them, they were refused. This is ILLEGAL, but we would have had to have taken further steps at the point at which they were denied, which we did not do. In that "we" I include myself and everone in TB who is now upset about this.

The parish council then asked NEPA if an environmental permit was needed and they were told NO. This is something I have been fighting for years - it's complicated, but basically, the categories of development that need an environmental permit are often unclear and restricted. So the development went ahead without sufficient monitoring from NEPA, and certainly no legal document to guide it.

It is NEPA's express responsibility to ensure that there is public access to the foreshore and also to protect natural resources, such as dunes and turtle nesting sites. All you have to do is look at the north coast to see how very seriously they have failed the people of Jamaica in this regard. They are now doing it in Treasure Beach, which sorry to say everyone, I don't want to say I told you so, but I have to.

Putting sand over the construction is - well, it might look better, although I doubt it, but what has been built will still either greatly reduce or eliminate access to the beach by both people and turtles.

You now, I was asked by someone in TB to say what my advice would be to Bruce, and this person would pass it on. I did. I said this: Set your house as far back from the sea as your lot allows, build on stilts, so in bad weather the water will pass through your first floor, leave the dune, the beach and all beach vegetation intact, restrict the number and type of bathrooms, do not build a swimming pool, install every water conservation device known to man, insulate your roof, landscape with only native vegetation. I believe this advice was passed on but obviously was not found to be persuasive.

Lastly, it is easy to demonize any developer for doing things that harm the environment, but I believe the real problem is with the regulatory agencies who are set up to ensure these things do not happen and who utterly fail us all. It is for NEPA to tell Bruce Bicknell, his architect and everyone else who wants to build in Jamaica what they can and cannot do.

The trouble is now - there's probably no going back for this particular site.

I am still prepared to work with the people in Treasure Beach to try and get only appropriate development - but I'd have to see a lot more broad based commitment and willingness to take action from the community than I've seen so far.

Diana from JET

Sometimes it is difficult to get through to a link. So here is the article from the link Turey supplied.

It is important to go to the bottom.

[edited by TB.Net]

Beckford, Phillips top overall sections in Jake's triathlon

Rayon Dyer, Gleaner Reporter
4 May 2008

Allan Beckford of the Jamaica Automobile Association and Mey Phillips emerged overall winners of the male and female sections in the 13th staging of the annual Jake's Off Road Triathlon, which took place last weekend.

Beckford had a swim split of 6.00; a bike split of 57.10; and a running split of 28.15 to come up with a final time of 1:31.25, while Phillips had a swim split of 8.06; a bike time of 1:04.06 and a running split of 48.32 for a final time of 2:00.44.

Top athlete

Redgy Tytgat from Belgium was the top athlete in the over 50 category with a final time of 1:45.28. Other notable participants were Randy Boba, Horace Burey, David Linehan, Dominic Walters, as well as the trio of Andy Jones, Lechester Beech and Craig Cooke who emerged as the top relay team. They all won cash, plaque, cellphones and a mountain bike.

Event organiser Jason Henzell said a lot of work was put into this year's event to make it successful, adding he was happy for the support of its sponsors.

"We are grateful to sponsors such as Wisynco, Wallen Ford Blue Mountain Coffee, Sandals Whitehouse, Strawberry Hill and Couples Resort," he said.

Happy with event

"I am happy with the event, particularly because 75 per cent of the competitors in the races really did it for fun and that has been the most interesting part of the triathlon on a yearly basis," noted Henzell.

Samartha Harris of Wisynco, who is also brand manager for the Nature Valley line of products, said while it was her first year, the event is one which she was very much interested in being associated with in the future because it represents broad-based sporting activities.

The event, which started at 7:00 a.m. with a 500-metre sea swim at Great Bay, followed by the 25km bike race that took the riders through the back roads of neighbouring communities and culminated with a 7km run, which ended at Jake's.

Proceeds from this year's event will go to the Breds Treasure Foundation, to continue its community outreach projects.

"We are proud to support this community fundraiser," said David Burton, brand manager of Wata. "Breds is a worthy organisation to support through the triathlon, which is a one of a kind sporting event in Jamaica."

The best was left for last when Henzell announced that work has started on the Treasure Beach Sports Complex. The news was greeted with thunderous applause from the audience, most of whom are from the community. He noted that $700,000 was donated by Bruce Bicknell of Tank-Weld Metals, $300,000 by Jake's and $300,000 by the management of Marblue Hotel, which will go towards the work on the complex.

[edited by TB.Net]

For the information of TB.net readers, the home site pictured above is owned by Mr. Bicknell.

Question: Does anyone know if the figures quoted are in Jamaican or American dollars?

Sure, heavy equipment and deep pockets..[edited by TB.Net]

Thanks $'s. Livity needs deep pockets on her side. Rather Livity hopes that Homo Sapiens get's it's act together. Such a design. Almost a crown of creation. The understanding of wealth and responsibility 'to all things bright and beautiful' are parts of such straightening out.

It's a matter of perspective too. Who owns a tree in your yard? Is it like a domesticated mammal? My dog. Or? Who owns the lizards that live on the tree? Seriously! Perspective. Lords of Creation or Stewards of Livity?

I hope the Bicknells and Co are made welcome in TB, they have made a commitment, maybe with a controversial start.

The real building, community participation, is the next step. Eye to eye, mouth to ear and heart to heart. Unless.......?

To be clear, many are not into dominos, white rum reasoning, roots getogethers and bush wandering. It takes all types in this Tango.

I see the future as a great adventure. So many challenging things are happening at once. The ancients knew why 'United we stand and divided we fall' No joke.

I was told that an old symbol for sin was an archer whose aim is not on target. He had missed the point.

And please, if this big mouth strays off the point, does not make certain things slide and jumps into conversations. Just say so. I'm stubborn, curious and impish but respect the company around this virtual 'campfire'.

Coming to think of it, why would anyone want certain things to slide? It's been itching my brain. If a 'Let it Slide' list was posted. One would be clearer.

I am now convinced that Treasure Beach has been taken over by con-artists.

Well folks, the messages are, as usual, starting to get pretty nasty. Therefore, we are closing this thread unless there is new, pertinent and positive information to pass on.

Insults will not be passed on . . .

anything positive ???

One positive is the consensus on communication manners and the stated appreciation of this forum by many.

I should also thank the Bicknells for increasing the $ value of my land by their show of confidence in the area.

The Livity (L) value has also risen. As it has in all areas that allow 'all things bright and beautiful' to do their thing along side us doing ours. The less natural areas there are, the more they are sought by the animals, including us higher primates. We call them Parks, some know them as yard.

So $ and L are finally together on the balance sheet, they always were. What are now refered to as 'Externalities' by the business and financial world have been ignored at our peril too long.

I suspect Mr Obama and the 18 world leaders hunkered down now in Wonderful Copenhagen are coming to the same conclusion, even if it may be expressed in a different language. I hope we are the benefactors of any wealth transfers. Cancelling our energy sapping Nation Debts would be a good start. A Solar Cell factory another. We should start making lists from now eh?
Sorry, no bling or bandooloo this time.

Yea, we're tired of negatives, better may be round the corner.

Still, I'm not waiting for permission from anyone to work with Livity, a few bags of gold to make tbings progress efficiently would help. I do not take gold with conditions though. Best to make my own.