The preliminary plans for the Treasure Beach Sports Park & Community Centre is now ready and can be viewed at the BREDS ofc.

The Directors of Breds invites everyone to attend a community meeting to discuss the plans for the Sports Park, and discuss concerns or issue on Monday June 22, 2009 at 5:00pm in the BREDS office.

Breds has asked us to post the plans for the Sports Park online.

Here is a small image of them.


You can download a larger version here:

pdf sports_park_plans.pdf (606.5 k)

Breds, has invited Mrs. McCauley from JET to attend this meeting and she has graciously accepted.

Where are the roads coming in to the Park? Do they permit two-way traffic, and are there more than one set in case of emergency?

Bathrooms?

Locker rooms?

Seating for people watching events?

Management office?

Get on it, people of TB. Organize, draw up petitions protesting the sports "complex" (with its spaces for 96 cars (!!!).

Perhaps the women of the TB women's group would be the logical ones to draw up a petition, MAKE COPIES, get them to people in the community - all over the community - who will deliver the goods: i.e., gather the signatures of everyone they know, behind every tree, fence, and wall. Present those petitions to BREDS/Jason.

Is there a single lawyer in the community that would draw up a petition with a few of the obligatory "Whereas(es) that cover the salient points that say why the "complex" does not suit the scale of the community?

All those courts, and parking lots: paving? asphalt? once that stuff gets laid down, interfering with drainage, it seldom gets ripped up - as Diana McCauley said of the concrete in the canal.

I do know this: that if that sports stadium gets built, many of us who have been coming to TB for years wil no longer come. If it gets built, what sort of "guests" will TB get then? Just how loud does money speak?

And some of the houses going up in TB? Some of them look like fortresses, some have excessively-built walls around them. One wonders, to paraphrase Robert Frost, who asked (in his poem, "Mending Wall") of the simple stone walls in New England: "What are they walling in or walling out?"

In 2006, seeing some of the changes then coming to TB, I figured (having watched the dreadful changes called "progress" in my own "small" town here in the states over the last four decades) TB had, at best, five good years left.

My prediction was pretty close, and it is echoed by Diana McCauley, who concluded her piece about TB by saying, as she looked down on the still-clean waters off TB:

"Not for long, though, I thought. Not for long."

I apologise for asking since this has been a long standing subject, but can someone say exactly where in Treasure Beach the Sports Park is being built?

To "curious" - good question - it is the heart of the problem. It is right smack dab in the middle of the community. To compare this project to the park at Nain is completely ridiculous - that is not in a populated area and has very big good roads coming and going. And the question about the roads is another salient point - exactly - what about the roads and how many local people will be inconvenienced? To me these are the two most important points.

I never really seen the need for a Sports Park in TB. It seems to me that it is going to cause more problems then it is worth.
I think TB needs more things ike the Calabash Literary Festival, the Annual Triathlon Race, and the the Hook in Line Fishing Rodeo to promote the area, and these things are much more friendly to the eviroment.
The ideal of a childrens Play Ground is a good one. Also maybe a general Arts Festival featuring art, music, food etc.
TB should promote what it is most famous far, the undeveloped quiet serenity and natural beauty of the area, along with the the friendliness and laid-back spirit of its people !!!
ONE LOVE !!!
Mike

Correct. The LOCATION of the Sports Park is the heart of the problem. The reasons for its location are known to some. But this should not prevent the community to oppose this potentially very noisy and destructive elephant from entering the porcelain shop.

It is being said that the planned Sports Park will also be used for so called events, i.e. bashments, clashes, dancehall, etc. with these enormous sound towers, starting up around midnight and shaking and vibrating the surrounding neighbourhoods into the next morning.

Most residents of TB would probably prefer quiet nights, most visitors are coming to this community BECAUSE it is quiet.

The planned location is smack in the middle of a residential and small resort area, surrounded by older and some new houses, occupied by local residents and visitors from elsewhere in Jamaica or abroad. Apart from the occasional boom box on a public holiday, the area is quiet

Sports parks are usually planned and situated on the edge of or outside residential areas, often near large schools, where they can serve a double purpose for the schools during the day and the community in the evenings and on weekends. Infrastructure and facilities such as access roads, parking, security lighting, showers, etc. are shared with the schools. For example, a possible location for this project could be in the area between the Police Station and Pedro Cross.

Have the proponents received Parish Council approval? Have they gotten the approval of the immediate neighbours (James, Senior, Campbell, Kinkead, Ginzell, etc.) and the many neighbours further away whose property value and income earnings from small rentals will obviously decrease!

The proposed location for this Sports Park is wrong, because it is surrounded by a residential/resort area, access is very difficult, connection with schools is poor, and ecologically it is problematic (hydrology!).

Pardon me for being ignorant on the subject of location. I was under the impression that the sports park was on the outskirts of town, or even farther out. But smack dab in the middle???
Boy, I sure want this posted so I am going to be unusually nice. Let me just say that this is the stupidest most unthoughtful thing I have ever heard of. The idea of a sports park can serve many positive things.
If this is built smack dab in the middle, well, you may as well kiss TB goodbye. I better take some pictures to show the grandkids how it was next time. New faces will appear in town that no one knows and no one can track.
And as ole Mick Jagger would sing.."the crime rates going up up up"...

Interesting how the name of this keeps being changed, presumably to make it sound smaller and less onerous. We've gone from Sports Stadium - to Sports Complex - to Sports Complex and Community Center. I now propose "Center of All That is Joyful and Wonderful for Treasure Beach." That should do the job, though others might have better suggestions.

THE SPORTS PARK IS LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ...

There is good and bad to everything, and i have to agree with MNKEN he is so right, alot of people might think that it is good, people will get jobs, kids can benefit from the sport park, but at the same time, the old charm of TB will be deminish, its like cancer it slowly attack a certain part of your body and before you know it it completely take over. I see it as if TB remain lets say remote, then less people will know and less crime, again MNKEN couldnt have said it better. crime up up up....

The thing we need to know is how will this benefit the community.
How many jobs with this project generate?
Will residents have to pay to use the facility? Where are the roads in and out?
Are they large enough to support the sports park AND the people who live there?
What about sewage treatment? I don't see any public restrooms on the plan.
How will tourists pay to use the facility?
Will it be a profit generating center for hotels? What about public events?
What guarantee do locals get that there won't be events that will disturb the peace?
We already know that the Noise Abatement Act is breeched by events at Jack Sprat so why will this be any different?
Will the BREDS organization be required to be more transparent with their financials, since the government has given them this opportunity?
And the list goes on and on - but the community has a right to know.

I see space to part 76 cars, which -- although many fewer than the 500 people had originally talked about -- still seems like a lot for a "community center" in an area as smalla s TB.

I see small basketball and netball courts, a couple of tennis courts, a space for beach volleyball and a football field ... and then what appears to be a LOT of open space. So why did the Lignum Vitae trees have to come down?

I se four spaces noted as "thatch roof stands", two near the community center and two near the football field. Does 'stands' here mean 'bleachers,' as in a place for sports fans to sit and watch games? Or are these stands places for selling refreshments and other souvenirs?

What will be happening with the rest of the open space? Is the space northwest of the football field going to be left open? Is the 'depression' going to be left unfilled? What is the meaning of thin line/track running inside the perimeter of the site? Is it an oddly-shaped running track?

To respond to previous posters who have expressed displeasure at the location of the sports park. I agree that to place a large establishment in the center of town seems like a very short-sighted idea. Yes, the land is there, but it is this really the best place for this park, the best place in light of the affect it will have on the community? If the plan is still to have cars drive up the small, rutted road past Fisherman's Bar and the Hamilton house in order to get to the park, this has always seemed like an awful idea to me. Now with the parking areas separated, it would seem there must be a second driving entrance, but that is something people should be paying attention to. Even if all the drivers 'only' had to come down the main road through Calabash Bay and into Frenchman's that's a lot of additional cars for TB. How safe will pedestrians and bikers be as the turn the corner by Alex's shop with all those extra cars coming through?

I'm sure I'll have more reactions and questions, but these are the first ones that come to mind.

I can not think of any community in America that does not have a baseball field for the Kids to play on.Parents and Grandparents and friends love to go watch the gamesand get involved in the community.Why would people not be in favor of the sports park for the people and kids of Treasure Beach.I do not buy these lame excuses like road problems ect.If you do not know where the sports park is ,it's because you can not see it from the road.Please do not criticize it if you have not seen it.It is a beautiful Park and is about to get better.

There are several arguments FOR the proposed Sports Park.

"People will get good jobs." There IS a definite need for more jobs in Treasure Beach. Exactly what jobs have been PROMISED in conjunction with the Sports Park? Are they part time or full time jobs? What qualifications are necessary? What is the pay? When would the jobs start? Are these jobs going to be offered to TB residents before outsiders are considered?

"People can sell things at the Sports Park." Oh - really? Did you know if you have a booth and sell things at Calabash you have to pay a fee whether or not you sell a little or a lot?

"There will be a place for the young people to play sports." Doesn't anyone recall that BREDS has already stated - on this Forum - that people, including youth, will be CHARGED to use the Park? Many of our school children do not even have money for LUNCH or TRANSPORT. Many of the older ones who no longer attend school do not have jobs. Where will they get the money?

My opinion is many people are fooling themselves because they WANT to believe things.

How many people thought the CANAL was such a good idea when it started? Look at where we are now. Things are no better. So much money was wasted. That area is UGLY FOREVER. We are now smarter, but it is too late.

I pray it is not too late to stop the Sports Park.

Hello Res, you said: "The reasons for it's location are known to some". What are these reasons?

To Naming Evolution...

Now THAT is THE funniest thing I have ever read on this website!!! *Wipes eyes and starts laughing all over again*

So....where exactly is "the middle of town"? Can someone say where is the Park being constructed?

Heart in JA, from observing conversion of land in Jamaica, it seems to be automatic that trees are all removed.

Trees are dangerous as: they harbour lizards which get in ladies hair and can suck ones brains out at night, they provide hiding places for thieves, they block the view, they grow in inconvenient places, some provide shelter for Duppies, they block the sun, birds nest and shelter in them and create a mess, they stabilise the surrounding soil thus minimise our beloved dust and worst of all; they grow seeds in a conspiracy to propagate their kind.

Most importantly they are impedements to the creative energies of draughtspeople and planners who prefer a clean slate.

Who cannot but love the clean lines of concrete and asphalt and the intense dry heat and progressive look of modern development. Bush is for backward country people.

If we are to catch up with the rest of the world, there are many models for us to emulate in TB. Check most N American towns and cities. We are a non-progressive lot that deny the advantages of contemporary development.

Just can't figure out why so many from those towns and cities envy our primitive lives surrounded by bush.

Turey, the simple, backward and primitive country bway.

Tree Farmer, if we were talking only about a baseball field for the kids, there would not even be a discussion. "Doing it for the kids" is not the reason for the Sports Park, but it's something that a lot of people want to believe.

I agree with "Wake Up" people are just too gullible, all these things are good but as soon as this facility is completed then we will see who will benefit from it, Certainly not the local children and young people without financial means. Only way it will be beneficial to the community is if it is government build which will be unlikely. Parks in the states are free because of we the tax payers.

Just for arguement sake. What could be advantages of this sports park? I've heard many negative comments, is anyone for this? Couldn't it be good to have a place where small sporting events take place, a community center, a park and walking path, a playground for the small children?

Is it possible it could be just what is planned and wouldn't that be good? I would like to hear from anyone who is for this park.

So right, Turey. Trees are bad. Concrete is good. Quiet is bad. Noise is good. The wishes of the majority should be disregarded to fulfill the unyielding wishes of a few. What was I thinking?

All of this is more PROOF of my previous agurment !!!
NUF said :>)
I promise !!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

To me the most appropriate form of bridging the rift between the creators of the canal and those against are the disciplines of Reasoning and Groundation. These are two of the foundations of our Ancient Each One Teach One University.

Ms McCauley is soon to demonstrate this. I believe the only side she is on is healthy, wealthy and wise. I see no other worth attending to.

I invite the creators of the canal to come reason it out. I can see no claim of divine rights only the duties of a servant of the public.

We are a reasonable lot and will listen and work with you for an elegant solution. Besides, those airconditioned offices are not good for you.

BTW, the first entry requirement for TEOTOU
are being able to listen, dance and laugh. Just don't wake up anybody and don't faas.

Dance because every atom in our structure does and laugh because our cosmic insignificance is enchanted by the few precious moments of opportunity.

Listen because sometimes it is only said once.

To the Webmaster: I gave a lot of thought, and time away from my own work, to my post earlier today. If there was something offensive in it, would you please tell me what it was? It was the one in which, picking up on the amusing post by Turey (Concrete is Good; we know that here in America), I mention Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal."

We TB fans/repeat visitors are now talking among us about how this forum is, of late, a true instrument for bringing the community together. We are pleased you are allowing people to speak their minds. Only good can come of that. If our posts are censored for unclear reasons - sometimes, it seems, for a single word - that censorship discourages us from taking part in the ongoing discussion.

We all appreciate your running this forum. We hope you will allow it to continue to be a champion of people's feelings and expressions of what we fear for the community which we all love very much.

Thank you.

RIGHT ON !!!!!!! Turey
Yeah mon !!
Righteous comment fi sure !!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

Just a reminder, personal attacks and swearing will not be approved.

Healthy debate and constructive criticism is welcome. There is no need to get personal.

If you have not had a message approved, please reread it, take out the parts which are not within the guidelines and resubmit it.

Many times we have seen great comments, but due to one line or one word, the whole message cannot be submitted.

Miss Rebecca, speaking for myself, I write my messages in the space provided here. I do not first write them elsewhere and then copy them here, so if you do not approve what I wrote my message is lost and gone, and I do not know why it was not approved. That means I cannot change that one line or word which I guess you found offensive. I do not swear here, and I never have. I know better than that.

Being as honest as I can about the Sports Park, we ALL know it is being sponsored, pushed, and decided upon, etc. by ONE person and ONE organization (headed by that same person). This makes it exceedingly difficult not to say something that might be construed as a “personal attack” on that person or organization.

I am against the Sports Park for a long list of reasons. Not one of them has to do with denying our young people a place for recreation. Who would be selfish enough to do that? Not me. Not anyone I know.

My list includes many reasons previously stated in this Forum. We have an inadequate road system in and around Treasure Beach. There are serious safety concerns connected with the Park including both participants and safety vehicles such as ambulances and fire trucks getting into and out of the Park quickly. The Park is in the midst of a quiet residential section of Treasure Beach, and noise from the Park (especially for night events) will be disruptive to the neighbors, not to mention anyone within hearing distance. There is the absolute chance that “less than desirable” people will come to Treasure Beach because they are attracted by events at the Sports Park; this could lead to increased crime against our people and property. There is a long list of possible environmental problems which could include inadequate handling of waste and trash, destroying needed trees and vegetation and wildlife, and disrupting normal drainage patterns.

At the same time, members of the community who question the Sports Park are not provided with necessary answers. Before we know exactly where the netball court will go, we would – for instance - like to know exactly how this Park will be financed. We have been told the Park will be built in stages because there is insufficient money to build it all at once. (This sounds like the Canal, but we were told less than five percent has been raised for the Park, meaning there is about 95% still to be raised.) What gets built first, second, third? What are the target dates? We have been told the money will come from fundraising. Who is going to do the fundraising, and from whom to they expect to get the money? (That organization cannot even manage to keep the ambulance running and has been woefully late on making insurance payments on it – very dangerous.)

There is a Community Center now on the drawing. Does this mean the organization in question will be assumed to run the COMMUNITY?

Who will run the Park?

Who will supervise it?

If something goes wrong, who will take the responsibility?

Will people be hired from the community? If so, how many – and for what positions? When?

Will community members be allowed to sell food or goods at the Park? If so, will they be charged and/or expected to give a percentage of what they sell to the organizers of the Park?

Exactly what will people be charged to use the Park? This includes kids who are playing or practicing, adults who live in TB, visitors to TB.

Why has the name been changed over and over? Is this not to make it sound more desirable and less menacing?

Any intelligent person knows these questions cannot all be answered at the meeting on June 22. There will not be enough time. Worse than that, we will be told the answers are not known, or some of the answers will not be divulged to the public. If we were talking about a PRIVATE HOME, we would not be asking these questions and we would not be entitled to know the answers. Instead, we are talking about an area in the middle of Treasure Beach, an area that has the ability to make a PROFOUND IMPACT on our ENTIRE community and everyone who lives here or operates a business here.

So, Rebecca, how do we express our fears, our displeasure, and our anger over the fact that ONE person and ONE organization may truly mess up so much that is dear to us without saying something about that person or organization?

Tell us how to do this, please.

The same goes for the Park/Stadium project except the creators cannot claim 'Dei Gratia' as it sometimes seems that Government employees assume. Unless they are royal born eh ;-)

I hope the meeting of the Park/Stadium developers and the community helps both points of view get aired face to face and one at a time. Here is an opportunity to practice what it seems Democracy is all about. Don't know 'bout the shock 'n awe part but certainly a way to win hearts and minds.

It is so amazing that the canal get so much negative feedback yet its only intent was to fix a problem that posed a threat to an entire community. Yes, it may have gone wrong in conception and design stages but that does not detract from the intended benefit. On the other hand there are projects, some still in the baby stages, that are obvious threats to the future of Treasure Beach as we know it, but nary a soul to object or point out the blaring hypocrisy. Get real people.

A meeting re: the sports park will be on June 22nd at breds office.
I hope many in the community will attend, and say what is on their minds, voice their concerns.
all concerns are valid.
if not, no sense complaining after the fact.
the time is now to talk about it and vote on what we will allow and what we will not allow.
it is our community, and we have every right to approve or disapprove something that might forever change it.

With the canal, we can try to fight the Government, the NWA, and I don't know who else. (I cannot believe the citizens - really the community - of TB will prevail because the damage is done.) Since we are not attacking a person, merely the totally unprofessional planning and work on what was done to our community in a misguided attempt to help, that is permissible here.

The Sorts Park is a entirely different situation. Working together, we can stop something awful BEFORE it happens. Complaining about it after it happens will do as much good about complaining about the Canal is doing right now.

We, as people who care about the betterment of Treasure Beach, should not be requested to have our opinions silenced. If we are not permitted to speak, who will be prepared to accept a good measure of responsibility for what is about to happen to our wonderful community?

PREVENTION IS FAR MORE EFFECTIVE THAN COMPLAINING.

Please allow us to voice our opinions.

A quote from Lee Iacocca ..

You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action.
Whether it's building a better car or building
a better future for our children.

We all have a role to play.

I am in Florida. IF I came to the meeting, are you telling me I could stop the Sports Park? NO WAY! It will be a sham because BREDS will do what it wishes and profess they are doing this FOR the benefit of Treasure Beach.

So I should take off from my job and buy a ticket to come down to express my opinion, one of many that will not count?

I do not have the money to waste on such a foolish appearance.

I also no longer will have the money to donate to BREDS. No matter how much good they do in Treasure Beach, the harm they are doing with this "Park" far outweighs all the good.

My Opinion Doesn't Count in Florida has expressed an attitude that is very, very sad but we hear too often among the people in Treasure Beach and from those who are not here but gone foreign. The notion that your voice will not be heard must stop. That's an attitude that has been exploited for far too long. This is the 21st Century, not olden times. In Treasure Beach there is now an active Citizen's Alert Group, a Women's Group, Fisherman's Co-Op, the Kennedy's Foundation giving thousands of dollars in scholarship money to the children. BREDS is not the only voice and should not have control over things. Members of the other groups who oppose what BREDS wants to do have a big voice but they have to use it now and never let one person or organization take control.

To PJ, If you scroll all the way up to the top of this thread and take the time to read all of the comments posted about the Sports Complex/Stadium/Park over the past five years, you will find that numerous people have had genuine concerns about every aspect of this project from the very beginning. About one hundred people turned out for the first meeting and were very vocal in regards to NOT WANTING large crowds, night time events, lights at the park, big parking lots, sound system, etc. What the people DID WANT AND AGREED ON was a pool to teach the local youngsters to swim, a small theatre to encourage youth to produce plays, and quiet areas for picnic and playgrounds. Other ideas were a library, health clinic, and a vocational training center. ALL of the ideas were voiced by the local community members with the understanding that BREDS was planning the park for the use of COMMUNITY MEMBERS, not outsiders. This is not what is on the plan at the top of this thread, nor does it seem to be the intention of the planners. Like the canal, community members voiced concerns from the start but their voices were not heard or ignored and now we are left with a huge mess and no forseeable way to correct it. I urge all community members who care about Treasure Beach to come to the June 22 meeting and restate what it is you want or do not want to see happen.

As my question about the reason/s for the location of the Park were not answered, I assume the answer/s are either not for all ears or are State secrets.

Let me rephrase the question.

Does the reason for the location have anything to do with a system whose letter starts with 'P'? A yes or no will do.

So, given the above several strong objections to the sports park, I ask one more time: why was MY message not allowed to run - or even my message I sent in yesterday? I guess the webmaster is digging in his heels on this, banning me forever from this site. Nevermind, I'll banish myself, left with a sour taste.

Note that Rebecca and Eric are the two who moderate and therefore approve and reject messages.

Please see this general message regarding posts that are not approved.

Cho Winston, I was looking for a follow up!

Try one more time nuh?

The meeting scheduled for the Sports Park will now be held at The Sandy Bank Primary School to accommodate everyone.

As it relates to the ambulance it has been in working condition, however the hub was damaged when returning from the Black River Hospital after transporting a patient last Sunday. The ambulance is fully insured.

We would like to thank you all for your constructive criticism and opinion, and hope we will be able to answer all queries and concerns on Monday. Please do not be a shadow behind these posts and will air your views publicly. We appreciate dialogue with all, as we all want what is best for Treasure Beach.

I understand that the webmaster and webmistress may choose to run what they want on this site.

I do believe they are making an effort, of late, and in light of the astonishing amount of welled-up sentiment against the stadium, to allow voices to be heard that might heretofore have been censored, for fear of some vague "retaliation." After all, ought we not speak truth to power, especially since power is often not in the interests of the people?

I still believe, however, along with others, that the censorship is often arbitrary and unfair. All I asked for, after my carefully thought-out post that took me a long time to write,was that my message not be dismissed without SOME reasonable reason why it was - and i only used the benign-"swearing" example AS an example. If that post is still stacked up on their site, they can verify whether or not I actually used the benign "Heck" or "darn" - (using extreme euphemisms here; their other spellings is clear). And if it were a word, or a phrase, but the rest of the message was deemed acceptable, how hard would it be for the webmaster or mistress to strike that phrase, inserting elipses in place of the deletion to indicate that deletion?

How could I possibly know whether or not my long, laborious, carefully thought out post would or would not make the cut? Would it be asking too much for the webmistress to provide that guidance that another poster asked for, by telling me exactly what in my post was ver boten? Generalities are NOT enlightening, and only leave us guessing, and frustrated, leaving us either to blindly guess, or to give up, disillusioned and feeling left out of the discussion.

Might it have been my alternative suggestion for a name for the sports stadium - the "blank blank Memorial Stadium?" Was that it? I have racked my brain, trying to second-guess, but to no avail. All I asked for, am still hoping for, is some "guidance" - to be told exactly what was so offensive. Might that be forthcoming?

As for threats to sue the TB.net forum for libel, who on earth could be making such threats? I have never seen a thing on this forum that would be cause for libel. Such threats would seem to be power-wielding intimidation tactics to me - attempts to silence opinion, dissent, discussion, to get in the way of profit-making.

And as long as the webmaster and webmistress put out their disclaimer ("The opinions expressed on this board are those of the posters"), they oughtn't fear libel, and ought not to be intimidated.

For the first time, since I've been worrying about the future of TB, I see glimmers of a higher level of community organization, a unified voice protesting things like the stadium. Unless a message is really, truly, obviously offensive, it ought to be considered a contribution to the dialog.

I hate to conclude, but am tempted to, that there really was nothing untoward in my message, but that something, some small thing, was picked up and objected to. Otherwise, why are my repeated entreaties to be told just how I transgressed are not pointed out?

Of course, neither webmaster or mistress are obligated in any way to acknowledge my request for enlightenment. But it would be nice if they would extend to me the courtesy - if they would say, SPECIFICALLY, what the offending words/phrases are, rather than just repeat their "No swears/no personal attacks" guidelines.

And will they print this?

Thanks to the webmaster and webmistress for printing my post, above. I am hugely appreciative, and more pleased than i can say.

Like all who visit this site, I love it, and, along with all the other fans of the site, I do appreciate everything that the w. master and w. mistress do to provide a forum dedicated to things that matter to the people of Treasure Beach.

That said, after reading BREDS post above, BREDS seems to be asking people to identify themselves, to come out from the "shadows" and make their opinions heard. Hmm... Surely BREDS is not suggesting that all the posters aren't real people? Nawww....

A thought: is anyone equipped to print out all the posts, the objections, the reasons for the objections, that have appeared on this site? Perhaps that long string of posts could be brought to the meeting, and someone, or some people, could take turns reading it, when their thoughts about the stadium are asked for. Or even if they aren't asked for.

The posters on this site who have voiced thoughtful objections ought not to be dismissed because they choose to remain anonymous. It has been suggested that some posters might fear retaliation should they make their identities known. Well, perhaps that's just too bad, BREDS. There is real passion, strong feelings, among the people, and what you read on this site is what people are thinking.

I hope the people of Treasure Beach do not allow themselves to be waylaid, distracted, or dismissed because they choose to remain anonymous. Anonymity does not invalidate posters' opinions about the impact the stadium will have on the tranquil community of Treasure Beach.

May the turnout be huge!

How many people can be accommodated at Sandy Bank for the meeting?

Who will be in attendance officially representing BREDS at this meeting?

They DID print it, Winston, and I am happy about it.

I posted a well thought out piece of opinion about the Sports Stadium just before the Calabash Festival. I said something about how these controversial projects start as business ventures, how they are politically well connected which makes them so successful and how the people’s opinion is considered after the fact, if at all. They are usually also failures (see Canal). I did not swear nor call any names. My posting never appeared. I then believed that it had to do with the island-wide shutdown of the C&W/Lime internet service and the immediately following shutdown of the TB website. So, I left it at that. Unfortunately, I didn’t save my text….

I thought and still think that your contributions are among the well-structured and levelheaded ones. It would be most unfortunate, if your opinion on the Sports Stadium could not be heard and be added to the many very substantive contributions. So, I don’t understand what happened. Technical problems – or did you maybe really go over board? Could you please post your contribution to this thread again? [See also my post on “In defence of the Webmasters and the Forum”.]

The resistance against the Sports Stadium/Complex is growing. At Saturday’s JET workshop, in the afternoon’s visioning section out of several hundred suggestions for the future of TB only two wanted a sports complex, far short of making it into the top 4. Winners were: Fixing the Canal, Planning & Regulations, Community Tourism, Museum, Market, etc.

To Naming Evolution (06/11) I would say, that this is obviously a reaction to the growing resistance. It might also help them in getting approval from the authorities should they choose or be forced to go that route. But beware: Approval does not mean that the developers adhere to the approved development.

To the proponents of the Sports Complex I would like to say, that many of us would like to see a BUSINESS PLAN showing us how the various costly features are in fact funded. The last thing this community wants is another abandoned project with unfinished structures.

Looking at the contributions to this thread and the growing opposition one has to ask: If no Sports Complex, then what? The land has been acquired by the government (presumably with our tax money) for use by the community. Here are a few suggestions, based on the JET visioning session and off the top of my head:

• HEALTH CENTRE-CLINIC-NURSING HOME-OLD PEOPLES HOME to be implemented in stages (a large proportion of the TB population is in the categories of Young Elderly and Old Elderly!
• The beautiful wooded area could become a quiet PARK with many benches and wooden tables, chess and other games and a large PLAY GROUND for toddlers and small children.
• A NATURE TRAIL with ecological interpretation could include the larger pond, possibly the smaller one as well.
• And the MUSEUM could be placed here as well with exhibits on biology, anthropology (Taino!), traditional farming, fishing and the old ways of life – the perfect place for the LIVING MUSEUM suggested several times at the workshop (story telling, weaving, pottery, farming techniques, etc…).

These are all uses for this piece of real estate (which WE have paid for) that are COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING QUIET RESIDENTIAL AREA!

res: I like most of what you say in your post above.

Of course, you can stall off BREDS, demanding yet another proposal from them. But after a while they can, as the developers in this country do, wear you down. Better to nip in the bud the "courtesy" of demanding them to account for every detail. (Though that is can be an interesting intellectual battle in itself, if you're up to it.)

Keeping one step ahead of them is a long process.

Or, you can leap full steam ahead, use all that energy we know is out there to direct it to halt the stadium.

Simply do, as "just say no" says: Tell BREDS "Ok, we got the point. Not interested, and never will be. We have some ideas of our own about what WE want on land, but we are going to take some time to talk all that over, and decide among us."

Perhaps res is a tiny [bit overambitious about all the possible uses that land might be good for.

I'm not sure I'd like to think of an "old people's home" or a "nursing home" in TB. Here in the states, when we think of our children moved far away, or of the lack of "home health care" avaialble, we make black-humor "jokes" about the time coming when we will have to "go into The Home" - to live out the rest of your days and pass into the heavens in the hands of strangers.

Some years ago, a Jamaican woman, Sally, took care of my mother when it became clear she was dying. I helped her get settled in with my mother, and one night we got talking about how we care for our elderly. (In America, there are nursing homes all over the map; not the greatest places, even at "best.") Sally, who'd been in this country for a while, said, "We don't put our people in those places. We take care of them at home."

Perhaps, if TB needs a "elderly home or nursing home" in the community, it might take the form of a small,modest house where some women of the community take turns making life easier for the dying sick and alone.

Which leads to: when it comes to making plans to "fill up" a "valuable" piece of land, best to keep those plans on a small scale, with the SCALE of the community always kept in mind. Never any harm to leave land alone, because we need open spaces.

Community planning is always a good thing, as long as it doesn't become clogged up with a mess of bureaucratic baloney. :-D

The Caretaker is encouraged to hear interest voiced for a museum.

The collection refered to a while back is still available and it is hoped that a suitable home will be found in TB.

I have sit here day after day and read the comments made on this website and see BREDS being attack from all angle and it dawn on me is it because of the one person that everyone think is behind BREDS why peopleis so against the plans for the sport park. I have travel to alot of country and in every community i go through there is a park or some kind of recreational centre for the young people. So i wonder why people is against this sport park. Have anyone stop to ask the young people of Treasure Beach what they think we often say that they are the future when all of older people is sitting around on our varandah and talking about our days these young people need somewhere that they can meet and socialize. This Sport Park doesn't have to be the monster you all think it is going to be. Also alot of you that is posting your comment do you live in Treasure Beach and if you feel so strongly against the things BREDS is doing for the community stop criticizing and come up with some thing better then. Also those who say they will not be contributing to BREDS any more that is so lame and childish because we all know that BREDS has done alot for the community. I will say my last piece and leave you all to think about what you've being writing. The people of Treasure Beach need to fight there own battle and stop letting people over seas and visitors fight there battles. After everything is said and done visitors and residents abroad will be long gone and you will be left behind to deal with whatever this may turn out tobe might it be good or bad

This is all such heady stuff, it is hard not to keep jumping into the conversation.

Lee's post inspires an observation: all the times I've been to TB, I thought the neighborhood kids were masters of the Art of Socialization. They hang in clutches, chatting away, playing impromptu games of cricket in the road - socializing like all kids everywhere socialize.

We even see those kids - of all ages - hanging with the elders on their porches, the generations socializing congenially and lovingly.

Which leads to the question: How would a sports stadium improve upon that happy and fortunate social structure?


Why ought anyone suggest that those of us who are not bonafide residents of TB ought to retreat from this dialog? Surely Lee recognizes that most of us who visit TB do so because we love the place. But we love it for what it is NOW, not for what it is sure to become if this Stadium plows ahead.

For most of us who visit TB as often as we can, our vacations there are not cheap. We save up for air fare (often $US1000.00.) We hire drivers, rent accomodations. We eagerly patronize our favorite little shops and restaurants, and always try, happily, to do right by all the people we meet and who help make our vacations in TB always wonderful.

Most of us TB "addicts" are really just working stiffs ourselves, with 9-5 jobs necessary to keep us alive and fed and out of the weather. with mortgage payments and taxes, sometimes no health insurance. We too have families to tend to just like the people of TB.

So why would you not rejoice that, loving your community so much, we friends abroad are taking time from the rest of our busy lives, our work and our worries, from miles away here in the states, and elsewhere, to contribute our knowledge and time to voicing our objection to the stadium?

We here in the states see what happens when big things like stadiums, or anything else that so inalterably alters neighborhoods, towns, villages, the social fabric, often the environment etc.

We are not involved in the affairs of the community because we have free time on our hands. We see the writing on the wall, and it ain't pretty. So we try to help our friends in TB.

Does Lee consider that, should the stadium go through (no second chances to change your mind), we who he suggests should stay out of the matter, may very well slowly (or quickly) slip away from vacationing in TB? Does he really want that for the community? And who does he imagine will fill that void?

To Lee and the Youth of TB - I am an ex-pat who lives in the general area of TB and would like to address the comments above. I don't think there is a person who has contributed to the conversation about the Sports Complex that thinks a place for the youth of the area, a community center or a playground is a bad thing. You are correct - that is what you see in a lot of the communities of North America and it is certainly beneficial. But the "Sports Complex" is a different situation. Please hear me say this. There is a lot of controversy surrounding the BREDS project. First of all, it is funded by just the people you want to stay out of your business. Tourists and ex-pats are primarily responsible for the funds coming into BREDS - or at least that is what we THINK. BREDS has not been a completely transparent organization and their financial situation is not known to anyone but the board - contrary to the law of Jamaica. There in lies one of the problems. The other problem is the size of the project. You do not see a large park of this size in the middle of a community in other countries - especially when there is a possibility of night events, as stated by Mr. Henzell. He has said in public meetings that this park will be like the sports facility at Nain, which hosts large musical events all through the night. But the difference is Nain is NOT in the middle of a community like Treasure Beach and it has large roads coming and going that can support this sort of venue. One thing I think everyone in TB needs to understand, the ex-pats and tourists who come in this community do not want to change things to suit themselves - they want what is best for TB and it's citizens. The ex-pats seem to do a lot to benefit Jamaica and TB so let's be careful before we criticize. It seems to me that a lot of the damage being done to the area is by people who call themselves "locals". You have to think beyond what you alone want - be it a football field or a community center. This project is way out of scale for the area and does more to support some than others.

Hello Lee. please point out any post where BREDS was attacked.

I remember posts where some of the actions and plans of BREDS were questioned. There have been no attacks on anyone, unless questioning the actions of some is considered an attack. We would be in a sorry state if this was our code of conduct....accept everything, question nothing. Sounds like the old totalitarian regimes, not democratic Jamaica. I am aware of some who consider themselves beyond being questioned by certain others. This is an unfortunate and backward relic of slavery and the politics of fear and manipulation. Time for this long gone!!!

Posts from both residents and non-residents have put forward suggestions about the nature and uses of the Park already. The Park will be a monster if it attracts monsterous behavior and the unpleasantness of traffic and noise. The change from a quite meadow to ? is also a consideration.

I encourage the young and all without internet to have their say on this project. A peice of paper with the following handed out to all households in TB would help: Do you agree with the Sports Park as it is currently advertised? Would you agree with another design? What are your ideas for a Park? Anonymous or not this could give greater community feedback.

Yes, Lee, as you said, "This Sport Park doesn't have to be the monster you all think it is going to be."

You are 100% correct. People are fighting the Park because they do not want a monster. I doubt people would fight a small, safe place for sports for our youth.

Why don't you ask Mr. Henzell make some important guarantees to the community at the Monday meeting -- such as no loud evening events. I doubt this will happen.

Yes, the people of Treasure Beach need to fight their own battles. But I hope you are not turning down the important help you are receiving from "outsiders" on things like the canal, the schools, and the Women's Center.

I am from abroad, and I do my best to help Treasure Beach. For instance, I know I contributed more to the ambulance fund than most residents, but this was done for the benefit of residents - not for people from abroad. So before you think our help is bad, please take the time to think of the positive things people who are not residents have done for Treasure Beach.

I'm glad people read my comments and don't get me wrong you all have made your points and all is well said. I'm sure the people of Treasure Beach is most great full for all the help they have gotten from the visitors that have come to visit and often time you can hear that Treasure Beach is a God bless community because of the love and help they get from the visitors. I just hate to see the way things been going on in such a small peaceful community its like its been fought over and like the people can't or won't stand up for themselve they are laid back that they have to have other people fighting for them. It would be nice to hear the real people of Treasure Beach give their views,

Also i am not for a monster of a sport park as all have been saying that it is going tobe, if the sport park is going to be just a playing ground for the youth and a place where a family can just go and hang out for a few hours then am all for it, but if is going to be a night place for big dance and concert then the people of TB need to step up. Hope the meeting on Monday will shed more light on the future of this project.

I will be big enough to apologize to anyone i have offended (Visitors) but we must all agree at one point or other this have to stop and let TB be the TB it use to be.

Hmmm Lee, how do we determine who the real people of TB are?

X generations of residence?

X years of residence?

Only Jamaicans?

100% Taino DNA?

Those that live within certain defined boundaries?

Etc.

I know, I sometimes pick at what seems like small stuff. As some seem to question the participation of 'outsiders' from any role in the community, I think it is important to understand how a real TB person is determined and if there is any validity in the idea.

Maybe what you really mean is that those in the community who have not had the opportunity to take part in the discussion here be given the means to participate.

My perspective is that the TB community now has the chance to be a Pathfinder in the discipline and pleasure of Sustainable Development. Our global interconnectivity invites advise and help from all our neighbours...everywhere, just as this community would also reach out to those in need if able.

Indeed, home is where the heart is. As one of my advisors reminded me, home is also where the soles of my feet touch.

Where is NOT blessed?

The following are quotes when Anabelle Todd interviewed Jason Henzell regarding the Sports Park on August 26, 2009. These words have already been on TB.net and were approved by Mr. Henzell. Therefore, they are HIS thoughts, not from my imagination.

+ Jason has advised that if anyone would like a better idea on what the ultimate product will be like could visit the Alpart Sports Park in Nain.

+ The facility will also be available for rental for functions (eg weddings/birthdays) and events (sport and music) in order to generate income for the maintenance and upkeep.

+ Those renting the facility will have to follow very strict guidelines and sign an agreement as to those guidelines to ensure that there will be no events that will attract an unsavory crowd. He has also stated that if these guidelines are not adhered to the renter will be fined and banned. Those that have complaints can direct them to BREDS and to the police.

+ There are plans for a sliding scale membership for the Treasure Beach community based on income.

+ Garbage pickup is dependent on the reliability of the NSWM.

+ Progress reports will be posted on the BREDS website and that questions can be directed to their email address.

Miss Todd went on to say "It should be noted that I only got one email regarding this issue in spite of all the postings regarding the Sports Park. It is easy to hide behind the anonymity of this web site but somehow credibility is diminished when there is a lack of response."

I would like to add that ONE person was Karen Kennedy, a VISITOR. Nuff said.

Yes, Lee, the people of Treasure Beach need to step up.

On the question of "outsiders" - this is something I encounter all over the island. It is often the very first way any disagreement is framed - who is speaking, where do they come from, and if they can be defined as "outsiders" in any way at all, their views are then marginalized. I was at the public meeting last night for the plan to but a 7 bedroom and a 4 bedroom villa on Pellew Island in Portland (a tiny island, for those who don't know) and almost the first comment from a member of the head table was to define me as an outsider - although I am a fourth generation Jamaican and spent many of my childhood summers near the island. It is time we framed the debate differently - Jamaica's natural resources do not belong to the people of a district or a parish or a county or even a nation - they are the common heritage of mankind. The criterion for deciding who can speak on an issue should be a simple one - do they care?

Kingston Harbour does not belong to the people of Rae Town, or the people of Kingston.
The Blue Mountains do not belong to the people of Millbank, or the people of Portland.
Treasure Beach does not belong to the people of Treasure Beach, or the people of St. Elizabeth

These wonderful natural resources belong to all of us, bornyah, tourist, returning resident, person who has never even been to Jamaica. I have never been to Antartica and will never go, but I care about it nontheless and would speak out were it to be under threat.

It saddened me so much last night to see how little we cared about gorgeous Pellew Island - and how willing we were to see it privatized and developed. And this is going on all over Jamaica.

Diana from JET

To be clear, we (Rebecca and Eric) are the two who approve messages posted here. I believe that Open Your Eyes is saying that Jason approved the words by using them in the interview.

-TBNet

Out of many one people. Out of many who came and fell in love with TB and the people.

Hope this defines the people of TB. Just my views

You go girl!
Thanks for saying what needed to be said for tourists and residents of Treasure Beach.

The interview was on August 26, 2008, not 2009. I apologize. Mr. Henzell's interview remarks are entirely accurate.

It was said "Progress reports will be posted on the BREDS website and that questions can be directed to their email address".

The BREDS website has not been updates in YEARS. It is so out of date that it is being physically blocked by several well known firewalls and computer security systems. It contains NO PROGRESS REPORTS on the Sports Park.

If BREDS cannot take the time and energy to do something as simple as update their website, how can we expect them to construct and manage a complex facility built on 15 acres? Something isn't making sense here.

I want to applaud Diana from JET - she has said it all when it comes to "outsiders". I just read a great piece by her and recommend it to all. This could be TB in a short while if we don't pay attention.

http://snailwriter.blogspot.com/

though little more needs be added to what diana mccauley of JET has to say, i cannot resist picking up on what she says.

as someone who has repeatedly stuck her neck out in local politics in my own town here in new england, i too have been told, "go back back where you came from" a number of times.

but diana is right: the world, and all its bits and pieces, is in the care of all of us.

diana's words ought to jolt all the people of treasure beach who already, many of them, understand the point she is making with her pellew island example.

it would be interesting to go around TB and count how many houses have been built in the last two years. ask yourself: do they all fit the scale of the community? do any strike you as being a little out of character with the rest of the houses? do you want that pace of development to continue unchecked?

after being labeled "one of them whacky tree-huggers" many times, i agree with ms mccauley's assessment that treasure beach is threatened, and - alas - hugely, sadly so.

I've put in years, fighting exessive logging, the "paving is good" mentality, huge developments and developers, pollution of one of our rivers here in town, the poisoning of one of our town wells by an industry we welcomed to town because it provided jobs. (another price we paid - apart from the poisoned drinking well - by welcoming that industry to town for the jobs was a 37-acre EPA superfund site along our river. now the EPA hasn't got the money to clean it up, and the cancer rate among the people who live in a trailer park on that site have a high rate of cancers.)

i see far fewer birds than what we saw only a few years ago, hear fewer frogs in our swamps, see deformed frogs in our ponds, and almost no newts in our woods. i see large tracts of land being clear cut, and lament the ensuing erosion, loss of wildlife habitat.

the list goes on, and there's one thing certain that i've learned: in most cases, the developers and those who are "in it" primarily for big profits, usually win, sooner of later. they have the money, they have the fancy lawyers, they can grind you down.

however, developers don't always win. in our town not long ago, a rich influential man, hooking up with a big developer, wanted to put 120 houses on land he (the rich town guy) owned out on the highway.

not only was the land there zoned "strictly commercial-industrial," the town couldn't possibly support a development of that size. schools, police, fire departments are already strained beyond the limits. but four people in our town sued the town for letting the zoning board get away with granting this guy "a special exception" for development to go on that industrial land, thus breaking our own town laws.

in short, our zoning board was intimidated by this rich guy. so the four people sued, in a suit that cost a fortune (two shelled out the money), and, unfortunately, after many months of legal wrangling, the court tossed out the suit because the lawyer for our four sueing citizens screwed up on a technicality. however, and this is what matters, and matters a lot: during the many months that case was in the courts, the housing boom/bubble burst, and the developer who was going to build the houses backed out of the deal. so, in a way, four people held up a developer for months, and achieved what they wanted anyway. the acreage on the highway still sits, unmolested, with the trees giving off oxygen for us all to breathe.

and one other example: an activist in our town, alarmed by the too-rapid growth, organized us into getting put in place a one-year moratorium on all housing develoments of more than four houses. we gathered 250 signatures demanding the moratorium be put in place, and went, in numbers, to the selectmen's meeting to present those signatures. the selectmen, seeing our NUMBERS and determination, gave us permission to hold a special election, and we got the moratorium, which at least gave us some time tohave a breather from relentless development, and talk about how to manage growth in sensible ways.

unfortunately,however, once a crisis pass, people tend to let down their guard, and the developers are at it again, big-time. so it is not easy to retain a cherished way of life.

preserving what is good for all of us is never easy, and is an ongoing struggle, one in which we all ought to participate.

Well, Breds, if I thought I countenance the thought of a float plane landing on that little threatened jewel, Great Pond, I might put me on a jet plane, get me down there, float-plane into Great Bay, wade waist deep through that pond, run to the school, and put in my two cents worth at Monday's meeting.

We look forward to your report about that meeting, and hope you will provide one.

Seeing BREDS's cricket pitch in the photo-montage above, I recall one (of many) happy sights I've seen in TB: a couple boys enjoying an impromptu game of cricket, half in the middle of the street that was also host to other folks strolling back and forth, chatting, and the occasional clutch of goats.

Kids know how to start up impromtu sports games, and other fun. If the community wants a pitch, surely there ought to be a little scrap of vacant land available in someone's back yard. And I gather there is already an unused tennis court somewhere in TB? Anyone know where that might be? Perhaps that could be available from time to time to the youth of TB who might be interested in learning the sport of whacking a ball back and forth across a net.

Oh, and is that a volleyball I see hitting a net? In the Olympics, they have girls' beach volleyball games - you know, the one (just joshing here) all us guys love. All you need for that sport, more or less, is a big sandbox full of sand, a net, a ball, and you're 're good to go. How complicated can it be?

Seems beach volleyball would be a great sport for the girls of TB. Bet there are plenty of folk in the community who could slap that court together, maybe near or on one of the beaches, enough above high watermark (barring hurricanes). Already plenty of sand around.

Now to mind comes another favorite Jamaica memory. Once I was out on the beach into the Guts River flows. There were happy families paddling about, cooling off, in the shallow pools.

And then, out on the beach itself were 4 or 5 teenage boys - sturdy, tall and lanky like so many of the Jamaican kids. And they were having the time of their lives, doing acrobatics right there at water's edge. Handstands, getting running starts, doing backflips, flying up into the air and landing - one boy on ONE HAND - in odd, difficult positions. It was fascinating to watch, and impressive. I watched for a long time as they (always good-naturedly) challenged one another to pull off something better. After, I told them how much I enjoyed the show. They were delighted, and I let them know that I thought they could make the first Jamaican team for the beach acrobat tumbling team. :-)

Keep things simple. If if things like games courts are desired, and perhaps do-able within the community, with people pitching in as they already do much of the time in TB, so much the better.

BREDS, I can't be at the meeting because I live in California.

I have several questions and I'm hoping you will answer them.

When will your website be updated, especially to reflect the progress on the Sports Park? There IS progress because plans have been drawn, etc.

At Monday's meeting, are you willing to respond, point by point, to Miss Kennedy's list published elsewhere on TB.net?

Will you be issuing written minutes of the meeting?

Will you allow tape recording devices to be used in the meeting?

I would like to bring a tape recorder to the meeting. Allowed or not?

As a Jamaican person with financial interests (among others) in the community my question is this - How much for community residents to use the park and how much for tourists - and how will it be paid? Will this be a profit generating center for hotels? (i.e. Sandals charges their guests $50 to go to YS when it costs them maybe $10 plus transport, hence they make a considerable sum on the transaction) I do not think it is appropriate for anyone to make money on the project, except to cover the costs of the complex. Does this make sense?

I was asked to attend the meeting on the Sports Park on June 22 in Treasure Beach and agreed to do so. But I am sorry to say that I won't be able to make it - I have hurt my back and after some Xrays yesterday, my doc says I cannot sit in a car for that long - must keep myself quiet at home. I do hope the meeting is constructive and that the results will be posted after. Really sorry everybody. Diana from JET

If anyone tells you you can't record or video-record Monday's meeting, "R," you might politely ask: Why the objection?

If you get further guff, politely tell them that you want to be certain there is a accurate record of this important meeting, and that surely no one could object, in case there is some disagreement about "what happened" at the meeting. If you still get guff, ask them if they have something to hide. Be prepared to stand up in a body, and insist.

The more video cameras and audio recorders at the meeting, the better!

The people of TB seem pretty inspired about the stadium. If further inspiration is desired, they might want to go online, google in Bill Moyers Journal, PBS. Once on that site, watch the video of last night's program, featuring a woman from Liberia who organized the "market" women to take a stand against the government of Charles Taylor and the rebels, to stop their fighting which was catching up too many children and women, who were dying in numbers. This group actually stopped the war, and Mr Taylor went into exile. It's moving, and impressive, and inspiring, to hear. There's been a documentary done about the women's struggle. The title is mentioned on the Bill Moyers Journal.

This example of the Liberian market women is perhaps a radical analogy to the challenge facing the people of TB, who need not fear dodging bullets every day, like the market women of Liberia.

Still, the principles of peaceful but determined protesting for what you know is right are sound.

Mr. Winston Preacher you have made some very good points on this topic but this one really blew me away come on now you are making it to look like the people of TB is in some war zone. If i was new to this website and read your post i would be scare for the people of TB. Please do not compare the situation with some Liberian war. You making it look like TB is up against some war head or some kind of organize crime.

Also i do not see why they would stop someone from video taping the meeting in my opinion BREDS have been very open to whats their plan is for the sport park. I do not think there is any need for someone to put up such a fight given in your opinion.

Please people of TB go to this meeting with an open mind and listen and feel free to vice your opinion to BREDS these are people of TB and would think that they would continue to wants what is best for TB.

I would have been happy to be there to attend.

Thank You

In a recent posting on the "Canal" string, Res comments "Both problems could be solved if we had the political and administrative infrastructure at community level, i.e. local government,community council and assembly, local planning authority. But we don't."

I think this is at the core of why many of us from foreign are distressed at the Sports Park proposal.

Several have commented previously that it is unfair to oppose sports and recreation facilities for Treasure Beach youth while such facilities are commonplace in North America. While this is true, such facilities are all proposed, planned, constructed, and maintained within the rules and regulations of local government, and taxes are paid by residents and property owners to maintain them. Even when such processes exist, it often requires diligence by citizens in order to ensure their voices and concerns are heard, and everyone is not always satisfied. But citizen participation is a normal and accepted part of the process.

Thus, when an issue such as this arises in a place we care about, and people are seeking ways to be heard in the absence of a formal process, and it isn't difficult to foresee a great many potential problems, it seems only common decency to try to help however one can.

At least that's why I'm going to put my name on Karen's petition.

I just reread my post above, and I realize that should not have used the word petition, but rather I should have said I'm adding my name to the list of those who oppose the present plans.

My apologies.

"KayDee": hear hear!

To "Concern TB Resident": A more careful reading of my post in which I talk about the Liberian women stopping a war will reveal that I gave the story of the courageous women of Liberia as an EXAMPLE of what people can accomplish for the common good, for the community's good, if they walk with one another, or as Bob Marley says, "Stand up for your rights." I would think I made my point clear when I said in that post (above):

"This example of the Liberian market women is perhaps a radical analogy to the challenge facing the people of TB, who need not fear dodging bullets every day, like the market women of Liberia.
Still, the principles of peaceful but determined protesting for what you know is right are sound."

I was saying, am saying, that the people of TB, in their protest against the stadium, don't face the dangers that the Liberian market women faced. In that, they are fortunate.

Under the Canal thread, Miss P asked when I was going to weigh in on the issue of the sports park complex. I was going to wait until after the meeting on Monday to see the new plans, but as I can no longer go to that, I will say something now. Essentially, having had the meeting in Treasure Beach the week before, it seemed to me that there was strong consensus around some sports facilities, a community centre, and a community market/meeting place. I think Karen Kennedy's post really said it best - what is desirable, and what is not - and I agree with what she said, so I won't repeat it. From an environmental standpoint I have the following concerns - (a) blocking existing drainage patterns causing flooding in other places; (b) the availability of water for irrigation of fields - it is my understanding that TB is short of available water; (c) the use of hard surfaces on courts increasing run off and therefore eventually impacts in the marine environment and also possibly flooding on land; (d) the importance of maintaining the existing habitat on the land - the trees, the ponds, the vegetation; (e) treatment of sewage and handling of waste. From a planning perspective, I share the concerns of many others on noise, traffic, attraction of outsiders and the changing of the "vibe" of TB, for want of a better way of putting it. I hope the meeting on Monday will focus on these issues and any others of concern and that a satisfactory solution will be found. Diana from JET

BREDS, would you be kind enough to answer the questions about the meeting scheduled for tomorrow evening. Three of us here are awaiting your responses. Thank you.

Thank you Miss McCawlay. I am VERY sorry you will not be in attendance at the meeting tonight because you are quite respected in Treasure Beach and want the best for our community. If so, I know you would express your opinions. You would also say you agree with Karen Kennedy's list of what is desirable and what is not.

IMPORTANT Question: Will ANYONE attending the meeting be reading Miss Kennedy's list AND Miss McCawlay's comments about that list - plus Miss McCawlay's ADDITIONAL CONCERNS about the sports park?

We know most people in TB do not have computer access, so they are not aware of these two VERY important things that have been posted on TB.net.

What is the problem with someone from BREDS reading these things at the meeting? Reading something doesn't mean they agree with them. It merely means they are willing to let the people attending hear various opinions - which is the point of a meeting at which people have been encouraged to share their concerns. BREDS, would you be willing to do this?

Great idea for someone from BREDS to be reading these things at the meeting!!! This would be a very open-minded and fair gesture on BREDS part.

I can't imagine why BREDS would not do this. Has anyone contacted them?

There seem to be two threads on the sports park, so I am repeating here that I have decided to ignore my doc (not for the first, and no doubt not for the last time!) and drive to Treasure Beach for the sports park meeting later. So see everybody there.
Diana from JET

Take care, Diana.
Thanks from all that love Treasure Beach.

Is there a report on how the meeting went last night?

I attended the public meeting on the proposed sports park in Treasure Beach last night – June 22nd. This is my take on what happened.

It was very well attended and overwhelmingly, the people gathered were in support of the sports park. I felt it was fairly uncritical support, however. I want to say that this is not unusual – I am a veteran of very many Jamaican public meetings and there are pretty much only two kinds – (a) meetings with very low attendance and (b) meetings where one side is organized in support of whatever project is being discussed. This was the latter.

Many of the folks at the head table were directors of BREDS and were in support of the project. There was a rather self serving speech by a coach/referee on why the sports park was a wonderful idea. The reasons from him and others were the ones you would expect – recreation for young people, particularly for young men, employment for everyone, sports development for community members, attractions for Jamaicans and visitors. The promises of a range of jobs for community members were uncritically applauded – they always are.

I was disappointed in Jason’s initial framing of the issues as outsiders telling Treasure Beach folks “what to do.” I really want to say here that it is so important this trap not be fallen into – always, we should evaluate WHAT people are saying, not WHO they are or WHERE they are saying it from. To frame any debate in this way is ultimately only polarizing. I hope Jason will accept this comment in the spirit it is offered – constructively.

There was a list of issues on a white board, which fairly covered all the areas of concern, I thought. They were discussed one by one. I don’t have the time right now to outline all of them, but will do some notes of the meeting and send to the webmasters of this site for posting if they want.

There was a second list of suggestions for the sports park that had been received via the suggestion box at the BREDS office – including things like, a night club, a hotel, a swimming pool, ducks on the pond and others.

The main issues discussed were : noise, access, water, drainage, a broad category of environmental concerns. I asked questions about cost and timing – the entire project will cost US$2 million and will be implemented over a period of roughly 7 years. The land was bought by the GOJ for J$10 million and leased to BREDS for J$50,000 per annum for the first five years, and $100,000 annually for the next 45. BREDS hopes to buy the land one day.

BREDS has not worked out the operational costs fully – and this affects the scope of the project and therefore the capital costs. A Business Plan is underway and will be available to the community. The BREDS website will be updated in roughly two months. Phase I will be fencing. A concern was raised about using short cuts and the meeting was told there would be gates in the fences. Jason advised the meeting that some of the landowners are of the view that the access roads are private roads and this is being investigated. An owner of an existing well has said the sports park can use his well for irrigation.

The hopeful things I heard were : there is no plan for stadium style seating – the seats will be low level and removable. Jason said he was in favour of Cookie Kinkead’s suggestion of a once per month old time gathering, where people could relate to each other, perhaps sell local produce, crafts and food items. They worrying things remain as they have always been – the scale (I was more reassured on this point – the scale does not seem quite as overwhelming as I first thought), noise, crime, and broadly, the environmental issues.

I stood up at the end and made a bit of a speech myself – about the importance of a development like this happening in the context of some sort of overall plan, referring to what has happened to other communities in Jamaica, I talked about the water, the dangers of over extraction of ground water, waste, drainage and sewage issues and impacts on the marine environment. I pointed out that the fishing industry in Jamaica had declined BECAUSE good conservation practices had not been in place and that seemed to find some resonance. I talked about other sporting facilities in Jamaica built without proper plans and now lying unused. I was thanked for coming and asked if I would work with BREDS to make sure the environment was not harmed by the park and I said I would, if listened to.

I remain convinced that Treasure Beach is at a critical crossroad – and it is absolutely urgent that some kind of planning process be put in place, to encompass and guide a range of developments of which the sports park is only one.

That’s about what I have to say at this point. I was glad I went in the end, because it gave me a better idea of (a) the plans for the park and (b) how another set of TB actors feel about it. I am happy to answer any questions.

Diana from JET

Thank you so very much Diana for your thorough report and for driving to and from Kingston with a painful back.

I look forward to and welcom your further input.

If there is going to be a Market Day, it needs to be weekly. Twice a week would be even better. That way people will know they have a regular place to come sell their goods and others will know they can shop weekly for fresh veggies and fruits. Once a month is silly.

Another silly thing. Do you have any idea how many people from T/B buy their FISH at the market in Black River? It would boggle your mind. I take it back. This is not silly. It is downright ridiculous.

Thank you so much, Ms. McCaulay, for your notes on the meeting.

I am surprised to hear that there was little opposition voiced at the meeting. This is disappointing, given the vehement opposition voiced on this forum.

Where were we all last night, friends? Why was there such a small turn-out from those opposed to the sports park? How can we let this discussion be framed by one side only, the side in favor of the park? We need to make our voices heard.

Mrs. Kennedy, what is the next move of the group who have sent you their names? What action will you be taking now that it seems there was little in-person opposition to the idea of the park?

(Before anyone asks, I will say that no, I wasn't there, either. I am not living in TB now, but I would hope that doesn't make some people think I have no 'right' to comment.)

"Outsiders" should not tell TB people what to do.

They should merely visit TB, patronize the businesses, contribute to causes, give things to the people who live there, keep their mouths shut, and go home.

We give. They take. This seems very rude.

Diana, you say you were disappointed in Jason’s initial framing of the issues as outsiders telling Treasure Beach folks “what to do.”

Exactly WHO is considered an outsider? People who live there but were not born there? People who own businesses such as villas there and employ local people but who do not live there? ANYONE who does not live there full time? People who come to Treasure Beach on a regular basis and spend their hard-earned dollars supporting businesses there?

I would truly like Mr. Henzell to have the courtesy to respond to this on this Forum, but I doubt he will. If he does, I would guess he will say he was misunderstood by Diana.

It is hard to have it both ways, BREDS. We "outsiders" (by your definition, not ours) are encouraged to spend our money in Treasure Beach, but we are told not to interfere in community business. It would then seem quite hypocritical for you to later be soliciting donations from us for the Sports Stadium.

To: Market Days-
Not sure how your suggestion of a two day a week market came up under Sports Park ... but are you suggesting there should be a twice weekly market there?
If so, do you really wish to see Treasure Beach turned into a market town?

My suggestion came about because it had been proposed that the sports park area be more than a place for sports. It is to have a community center and a health center which are both urgently needed by the community. It is to have picnic areas and jogging trails. In other words, it is to be a meeting and recreational area for the entire community regardless of age.

At the JET workshop, someone suggested Market Days as a desirable community function. At the Sports Park meeting, we were told that maybe a Market Day could be held on the premises once a month. All I was trying to do was to explain that a WEEKLY Market Day - or Market Days - would perform a very useful service. We have too little farming left in TB. We have people who would do this if they knew they had a REGULAR place to sell what they have grown. We have people who eat - and would prefer to eat what is grown in the community - and sold fresh.

This could be a true win-win situation for everyone.

How very sad of "Outsider". You want the people to give hand outs and spend their money in our community and not try to put in their two cents. All they are trying to do is to help us to protect our wonderful and beautiful community, they are not in any way, shape or form trying to do any harm whatsoever.
Through this website and all the various comments, what the outsiders are really saying, if T/B becomes another Negril they will not patronize T/B and what will happen to all the hotels, guest houses and villas if the outsiders refrain from coming to T/B? Ultimately there will be no jobs, so the people of T/B would not be able to support the Sports Park.

Currently, I live in the USA but I certainly do not want T/B to be another Negril. I personally have enjoyed reading so many positive vibes from tourists who have visited T/B and still continue to visit, because of its natives and the tranquility of the place and the good food among other things.
I hope we will look at the entire picture before writing about outsiders with such distaste.

I hope this will get posted. Please pardon me if you think I am attacking, but I am so annoyed and I am a Treasure Beach native.

Consider all the help that comes from outsiders. I will not even try to name them, as they are numerous.

Sorry I am not using my name.
Peace and Love.
Treasure Beach native Girl.

Just another thought. When we plant the seeds for our supporters that the opposition to the sports park is from outsiders then the citizens of Treasure Beach who are in support of the Park may easily start viewing visitors in a different manner and thus treating them indifferently.

We need to be careful because as this project begins to shape into a political one, i am now concern for the visitors who may oppose the park on how they may be treated by even the few who will react to Jason's statement as valid. I condemned any indifference and as for the outsider comment, i truly believe it should be retracted. He himself was once an outsider welcomed in like manner, made to be apart of us and no matter the cause for which you argue it is very offensive to characterize concern individuals as outsiders;Folks who are truly invested in our communities best interest and has proven so in their sacrifice.

It would seem that if BREDS cannot get you in the house then you are an outsider. Learning from Diana's report of Jason's opening statement referring to the oppostion and concerns of the sports park as being influenced by outsider is disrespectful to the citizens of Treasure Beach because it implies they are not capable of initiating an opposite opinion without outside help.

I am very certain that the people of Treasure Beach will not foot the bill for this sports Park so it begs the question where is the real influence coming from? It would seem that there are many outsiders on his side that will be making huge contributions to his cause, but of course if they are "In The house" we won't consider them outsiders.

Be not ignorant, Breds will need the help of "Outside" influence to complete this project and so the bottomline is "di pot a cawl di kekle black."

I am failing to see how this Sports Park will generate enough revenue to pay for itself, much less generate a profit for the investors. If this is purely a non-profit, than who is paying for the cost of the lease and the appurtenances that are going to be put in? Just a "outsider" being curious.

Ah, I can hardly wait for the FULL financials to appear on the BREDS website each three months.

Of course the sports park cannot pay for itself much less make a profit.

They say they are developing a business plan, yet someone is already paying the lease on the land and for services of the English firm here to design and build it. Isn't that backwards?

Bottom line is 2 million US is being budgeted for this project. If these investors are willing to spend that amount of money on a few pitch fields, etc..., they are either very unwise investors or have a business plan that will earn them a decent rate of return. No one spends that kind of money and doesn't expect a return, even if it is a modest one. The interest expense alone would be more than this park could cover. Where is the return going to come from? Just curious....

Two million US dollars. No completed business plan. No definite sources of funding.

This does not make sense.

“Outsiders” have different motives for being in TB. Jason has his, Rebecca has hers, the hustler on the road has his, I have mine – all “outsiders”. In 1979 when I was looking around for a piece of land in TB, I was walking along the coast line in both directions, unhindered by houses built too close to the shore. I’m not sure if Frank Pringle’s cottage was there already; it is now Jack Sprat. Beyond there was a small peninsula – “Reynolds’ land” – fine golden grass, a grave, relatives of my wife.

Some “outsiders” came and are still coming for the quiet, laid back atmosphere, where you don’t get harassed when you walk on the beach, where you can leave your cottage open all day, if you are there or not, where people walking on the road greet each other if they know each other or not.

Some have not come back. It got too noisy. Nobody told them that they should always travel with earplugs of at least 32 decibel noise reduction. Some got robbed. I got harassed at night on Frenchman’s a couple weeks ago. As someone said earlier on this thread, peace loving folks who come here to destress, replenish their energy by quietly doing nothing, reload their batteries, will not come back – to be replaced by whom???

There ARE low-impact alternatives for the Sports Complex/Entertainment Centre on the proposed site, which are compatible with a residential area, and which can be funded through various organisations and foundations (some were posted by res on June 16). The Sports Complex/Entertainment Centre can be built on the outskirts of TB, as said earlier, e.g. at Pedro Cross, away from residences and small resorts, where there are less flooding and water supply issues, where there are good access roads and space for parking. The promoters have a lot of clout and are well connected, it should therefore be quite easy for them to secure a piece of real estate suitable to their endeavour.

The people of Calabash and surrounding areas will be most affected by a Sports Complex/Entertainment Centre in their midst. Hasn’t it been said many times by many different people on this thread how they will be affected and by whom and by what? Are they aware of what is coming their way? The residents and small resort operators, and by extension their repeat visitors, have to decide, if they want this to happen or not.

The fact that some folks are now “sort of” endorsing what they and the promoters call a Sports Park, because they believe that it is a done deal, should not prevent the ones who are most affected from doing what they have a right to do: defend their peace and quiet, their livelihood, income and real estate.

PS: To the ones who say, this has become political: It has been political from the very beginning, it started because of politics. And to the happy news folks: Of course, we all want to talk about nice things that make us happy, but if you have a big threat in front of you, you have to deal with it. Such is life!

Such is Life, you are speaking common sense, something my father told me was anything but common.

The Sports Park is being promoted as a big win for the community, an answer to their prayers, almost Heaven on Earth. The plans are being presented with words that make anyone against the current plan sound like enemies of our community and our youth.

One threat I have heard is if the sports park is not built on that government land, then it will be used for a housing scheme, so the sports park certainly sounds preferable.

Many of us who are "outsiders" feel there are viable alternatives. Too few people in TB have computers or see this forum on a regular basis, so they believe what is being openly discussed and what SEEMS to be promised with NO GUARANTEES. The “outsiders” are not saying much in public, even in public meetings. Being greatly outnumbered in a meeting is intimidating.

Exactly how would you suggest this matter be handled in a peaceful manner when so many believe it is a done deal or they do not have the power to make changes?

When you get right down to it - everyone in Jamaica is an outsider - aren't they? All the natives were long ago bumped off - so .... let's not talk like that anymore. Jason does not live in the community and his grandparents came from abroad - does that make him an outsider? Is it just that - can't we all care about the environment? Ms. McCauley made a statement in the JET workshop that really got me - she has not and will not be going to visit or live in Antarctica but that doesn't mean she doesn't care about their environment and the melting of the glaciers. Everything is connected in this global world and there just aren't any outsiders anymore - get with the global world, BREDS!

I have read here that a lot of the people who should read these posts are not able to, not having internet access being the main problem. I have taken it upon myself to print out this entire thread and leave it at M&D (aka Maureen's, Delvins or Sawdust) for anyone who cares to read it. In the process I found out that several of the members of the board of Breds had not read any of it, which I think is a shame. Even though, there has been some anger shown by some, I think the conversation is healthy.

I took a walk around the Sports Park site this morning to find out that all the water has been pumped out of the pond to water the football pitch - this according to their neighbors. Even taking into account this is the dry time of year - there should be a little water there. This in a community that doesn't have enough water for the basics? Is this the act of an environmentally oriented organization? There are animals that live in this pond that are important. Who is supposed to be paying attention to these things? I don't think it is anyone at Breds. This is why the community has to be involved - they can't be trusted to do it on their own.

Isn't there an English gentleman who is in charge of whatever construction is happening over at the Sports Park? Maybe someone could get his phone number to alert him what's happening, assuming he doesn't know. If he does, someone should point out we don't have water here like they do in the UK.

Or stop up at Jake's and tell Jason or Tanya what's happening. Or call Norma Moxam; she should know what's happening -- and why.

SOMEONE is in charge of what's going on there. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Who is it?

To Yet ANOTHER Outsider: Thank you for doing this. People in Treasure Beach deserve to know what is being said on this forum, whether or not they agree with the posts about the Sports Park. The Directors of BREDS definitely need to know what is being said because as Directors, they are "endorsing" what BREDS is saying and doing. I have a feeling not everyone in the community would be pleased with BREDS calling so many people "outsiders," including people who LIVE RIGHT IN TREASURE BEACH. I think that is very disrespectful. The people I meet in Treasure Beach have never called me an outsider to my face. It hurts me to think they may be saying that behind my back.

When I first came to Jamaica, one of the things that positively impressed me is Jamaicans seem to be relatively color blind when it comes to people. For instance, mixed-race couples did not get stared at like they were here in the United States. I thought this was wonderful and open-minded.

I was taught that labeling someone can be a way to promote prejudice. (According to the dictionary, prejudice can be defined as an intolerance of or dislike for people because they belong to a specific race, religion, or GROUP.)

I have been labeled as an outsider in Treasure Beach, my chosen place in Jamaica.

To me, this is prejudice. Not because of my color or religion, but because I do not live there.

For the first time in all my years of being in Treasure Beach, having friends there, and doing what I could to assist people living there, I feel uncomfortable. This is not a good feeling.

It cannot be denied that someones birthplace is special. Most applications want this stated.

When we meet a stranger one of the first questions is: "Where where you born?".

Because of it's geography and history TB has been and is isolated, in relation to say May Pen, centrally located and with a long history of strangers coming to live and some just passing through.

Part of the success of the community is and was the quick identification of unwelcome strangers, for one reason or another, usually for good reason.

I was born and raised in Kingston, I am a Kingstonian, can't change that.

I can never be a TB born yah. I guess even those from Malvern or Mandeville would be considered as much an Outsider as I would be, in terms of born yah. OK maybe cousins.

I tend to the idea of me being a living creature on the surface of the Earth, political and social boundaries being secondary, but respected, and often illogical; ecologically and practically. As Ms McCauley and others have said, being concerned with the Big Yard but taking care of the yard I'm at.

I cannot change anyones concept of me, unfortunate if anyone needs to keep me at bay due to my birthplace. A loss for both of us. I have much to teach and much to learn, from everyone.

I do request that your concept of me is based on real and not susu or the spin of antisocial personalities aka Satan Pickney.

I have not looked at the forum for several weeks and realize I have missed a lot, especially with respect to the Sports Park. I must say I am heartened by the new plans which indicate the Park will not be the "huge monster" that was planned several years ago. Also, there are now plans for both a Community Center and Health Center on the grounds. All this seems excellent.

On the other hand, I am wondering if the Health Center (and maybe the Community Center) cannot be part of the TBWG. From what I recall, the TBWG is already used as a community center. They also certainly have rooms set aside for what could be used as a health center. My questions with respect to these are: Have BREDS and the TBWG coordinated their efforts? Maybe BREDS could contribute funds to the TBWG so they could take their existing building (a very nice and modern one) and make the necessary improvements or additions. This would seem to cost far less than starting from scratch on the land for the Sports Park.

Another thing that I find troubling are the many questions and complaints being raised by many people about such things as legal and proper road access, the possible lack of water, the draining of the pond, the cutting down of trees, and more. BREDS may know the answers, but the lack of communication from them makes me feel they may be hiding things or they do not care enough about community sentiment to share what they know, including possible problems. (If there ARE problems, many of us could put our heads together and attempt to propose different solutions). With anything this important, I do not believe there should be secrets. COMMUNICATION is vital, and it needs to be FREQUENT and OPEN.

Finally, I feel horrible about the "arguments" that seem to have come up because of this. In the past, BREDS seemed like a very community minded organization. Based on the minutes written on TB.net and based on so many of the comments people had about the meeting on the 22nd, BREDS has managed to offend many people by implying what they have to say should not be considered because they are outsiders. This is an attitude of disrespect for the people who have come to know and love Treasure Beach. I would BEG of BREDS to consider how they have made people feel. There is no way BREDS is going to label me an outsider out of one side of their mouth and then ask me for donations from the other side of their mouth. I hope they see how much hurt they have caused, and I hope they apologize soon. We all need to be working TOGETHER.

LOVE the idea of BREDS supporting the health clinic at the TBWG. They are already running something when doctors come in and see people in TB. If this could be done even more often it would be stupendous. I am thinking the BREDS nurse could have her office at the TBWG.

Look at the string entitled "What happen to Lisa?" and scroll down to the entry dated May 14, 2009.

Turey, the TBWG regularly holds doctors clinics where community members have an opportunity to consult with visiting physicians.

I believe the TBWG would be quite receptive to having more frequent clinic days. I would suggest you get in touch with them to see how your friends might participate. IF you get a positive answer from them, my additional suggestion would be for property owners to ASK any "medical guests" they have if they would be willing to donate perhaps a half day of their time. If anyone said yes - and I think several would even though they are on holiday - then this could start a wonderful new tradition in TB.

Thanks TBWG, I'll tell my friends.

You're right, this could start a tradition.

The Treasure Beach Women's Group is proud to host another medical clinic in July, dates and times are just being confirmed and we will post the information as soon as possible. See our site www.tbwgjamaica.com for past medical clinic information.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/westernnews/World-class-sports-facilities-coming- to-Treasure-Beach_8288187