i am very upset about the way our beaches are been quietly taken away from us in treasure beach. i remember when one hotel owner wanted to move there fence and it caused alot of problem and now we just sit back like all is well.Old WHARF BEACH IS now fence heard that it will soon be private .once ago we could walk from great bay to billeys bay on the beach not any more ,now houses/rooms are been built righ on every point.Blue hole have already been taken.i remember as a child i use to walk the beach from point to point looking grape.WAKE UP TREASURE BEACH DONT SIT AND GET COMFORTABLE UNLESS THINGS WILL PASS Us BYE.we as local have a right to our beaches not just hotel owners.

And let's not forget the rule of law - ALL beaches in JA are public below the mean high tide mark. Anyone interferring with that is in breach of the law and NEPA (or someone) should be called. There are cases (like Hedonism) where the hotel is able to get a waiver of this law, by going to court and having public hearings and a whole heap of nonsense, but as far as I know that has NOT happened at Old Wharf. You are right, Treasure Queen - this is entirely too common and the people have to speak up or pretty soon all we have is our bathtub.

Who is doing this? Why are the people in TB just sitting comfortably in their homes and are not noticing what's going on around them? Let's get some more information on this. Where exactly at Olde Wharf is this happening?
Very interested to know. The MP needs to be notified if this is so - so he can represent the people - TB know your rights or soon you will all be locked in your homes or just have the roads to travel on and nothing else.
Please shed some more light on this CASE. Thanks. Where is the Citizens Group that we heard about - are they still in existence? You guys need to raise your voices and be heard!!

TB Queen,you so right. In April this year I went home(TB)and notice the freedom of OUR beach taken away ,very very sad.I went back in August this year and noticed that the sea also has taking the beach along with couple feet of their land all of the little coves are now filled with sea water instead of sand .The sea now sit where all the grapes trees use to be at Bob Simms beach.The cove by Mr Heel's place gone,the water is now up the wall couple of feet.The big sands dune west of TB Hotel partly wash away ,remember all the fun we use to have running, rolling and just sitting eating grapes while the sun go down.

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on T/Beach folks please, please don't let this happen to our beautiful community. I remember as a young girl, both my cousins and I usually go and search for the good old sweet grapes at Calabash Bay. I always look forward going to the beach whenever I visit the good old Jamdown. Will we be left to swin in Great Pond???????? I hope not, remember crocodile lives in Great Pond and is not for swimming purpose. (WAKE UP TREASURE BEACH!!!!!!!!! THE BEACHES ARE NOT FOR VISITORS ONLY)

Before seeing this posting I was in a meeting with the Mayor this afternoon and I brought up the subject of Old Wharf road to the Old Wharf Beach being fenced off and he promised to look into the matter.
To my knoledge lot owners might be able to detour the road but they are noy ollowed to take in the road.

I have been told this area is deemed for public use. They have fenced it off to keep goats out as they have been planting trees, etc., have cleaned up the property, put a picnic table and a trash bin there. I was told a sign designating it as a public access to the beach is being made up and will be posted soon. There are two gates along the fence line where you currently can access the area.

I think it should be made clear, the fence is not blocking the beach itself. It is along the road.

I believe if a good sign is put up explaining this is a public access area and the fence it to keep goats and not people out this would be okay, as the area does look much nicer now.

However, I would also agree that right now it looks like a private piece of land and if I didn't know better I would think it was private and I would not walk through there to get to the beach. I look forward to seeing the sign posted soon and enjoying the new and improved public area.

I am from TB and I think if some Guest House owners are trying to do things to improve their property without harming anyone then it is their right to do so. We as TB natives should be a bit more appreciative when anyone try to help in beautifing the area with trees, flowers,vegetable gardens etc,etc.
There is more than enough public areas of beaches for all to enjoy.
I can understand if public access is taken away from (SALT PEPPER LANE) the lane by the Treasure Beach Hotel..... and the lane by Silver Sands Guest House.THOSE ARE PUBLIC ACCESS>

Those were public access from my grandmother was a child and if she was alive she would be way over a hundred years old .

The road by Old Wharf leading to the beach I do not think was a public road. It was constructed by the James Family that bought and cut up that land into "LOTS" and of course they had to make a road giving access to those lots.

THAT TO ME IS A PRIVATE ROAD.

Please let us all get along.

Are the goats wild, or do they have an owner?

When I checked the old boys, all from Ja, they where surprised that goats are free to wonder in this community. Goats were penned in the old days and the owners were liable for any damage. If no one was found to be responsible, they were impounded.

Are they untouchable or do the owners have special powers?

As goats are not indigenous to Jamaica, when did this start and why is this nuisance accepted?

This topic was discuss already, as a land owner who has given up patching fences where wandering goats enter, I still want a clear answer.

Thank you Rebecca for that info.

I am a frequent visitor to JA and have notice over the years that more and more of the public beaches are being turned over to private owners for large resort developements. Winifred Beach in Port Antonio is now in court as the UDC has plans to develope the beach for private use.
If this continues, there will be no beaches left for the "likkle mon" in Jamaica to enjoy. ALL beaches should remain PUBLIC !!
One thing that I enjoy about TB is its focus on community based tourism, and that everyone has access to the beaches. I hope the community continues to keep the big time developers out, for if not, they would be the death nail of TB !!! TB will become like Negril, overdeveloped and a lost of culture !!
ONE LOVE !!
Mike

Soon they will tell us to go swim in Great Pond! considering years later the Fishermen are still being taken to court over the ownership of the the Seaside.

I believe there is a law covering the "historic right of way" which means that access cannot be denied to the beach.

But if, between the gate from the road to the beach, was fenced off from the propery owner, it would be like a little fenced off walkway.

And then the public, and the property owners would be happy. But not the goats!

Janet Todd

I was there in April and took a boat ride up there. The captain seemed to be quite knowledgeable and told me what was happening there with the fencing. He definitely thought the landowners had decided it would become a private beach area.

In the past I have had my comments excluded from being posted because i called someone's name - even though it was not a lie or defamatory in any way. So...here....I will say that the person responsible for fencing the beach is a powerful person in the community and people are afraid of speaking up. The person is also close friends with the MP so we can forget that. ALSO...this person is doing this in other areas of TB right now. I hope Rebecca is right but mi fear that she may have been fed a story.

Fisherman Friend Rebecca is right,its so pretty over there now the plants really make a difference in that little area lets help beautify our little piece of treasure .Everyone have acess to the beach.We need to plant up more trees on our beaches and get more shades.

TREASURE BEACH OWNER you are sooo wrong,that road was always there,long before any development came along and that is definately a public beach make no mistake about it.Fishermans Friend if you are afraid to call names don't be because we will not allow any more confiscation of the beach to take place,keep in mind that neither the guest house owners nor the MP is from Treasure Beach.Love.

Fishermans Friend, I do not know who you are, but I know you are right. No one spoke up when a large "facility" in that area dumped their sewage right into the sea because they were a big employer.

If people do not speak up, they will soon find even more of their rights have disappeared.

I hope that the issue of private beaches in Tresure Beach and area never become reality. Both my parents are from TB and from young my brother and I enjoyed the freedom of the community and the beach. I myself have now brought my children to enjoy what Treasure Beach is and has. They love the beach and I hope that it will still be for all when my children bring their children to see where they come from.

If there is a registered title for the said property, the road would be indicated as private or not. A title search may be ordered at the titles office in downtown Kingston.

I don't know how historic right of way is viewed by our courts or title office Ms Todd. It would seem a way to preserve what is left of the commons in Ja.

The internet certainly gives power to the Court of Public Opinion. Better to vent, sensibly, than bottle stuff up.

turey, who nuh even eat goat.

Can we see a picture?

THANKS for the info Rebecca jut have to keep our eyes open.

The road from Old Wharf through Dillion Town has been there for eons. It was only in recent times that it was fenced in by one of the landowner. Old Wharf itself was fenced in years ago,preventing passage from Panty Hole to Old Wharf. By a stroke of providence, nature removed the fence but I don't know if it was replaced. Bottom Line: The properties are private, the lanes are public right of way (the old timers know the truth).

Hi Protector,
I,m not saying the beach is private. I'm saying the road to that beach is not public access.

To get to that beach we all should go by way of the "Market Road" and walk up to that beach.

It's like saying walking across Mass Alvin James Property when we were kids and going to school that was Legally Public walk way.
NO WAY....NO WAY.

He could have stopped everyone from walking there if he wanted.

This is were the problem is.Property owners allowed people in years gone by to walk freely on their property and now times has changed and those properties are now sold and the land owners all have there Registered Titles and therefore can stop anyone from walking through their property if they so please.

TREASURE BEACH RESIDENTS...PLEASE GET THE FACTS RIGHT BEFORE YOU POST.
PLEASE ENTER THE BEACHES BY WAY OF ALL THE PUBLIC ROADS/LANES AND THEN WALK AS FREELY AS YOU LIKE ALONG THE BEACHES AND SWIM,SWIM ,SWIM.

i chuckle when i read frenchman girl's coment. that's true. i went to jamaica recently and could not find my way through old warf,which was our popular swimming area when i was a kid. But i think it will be better for treasure beach if made a beautiful resort.we'll see.

oldtimer,
Under english, law from which, jamaica
and most of the law in the new world evolved,

any "uninterupted access" to land for a period of ten or more years becomes an undeniable right of way,

however i am not sure if that stipulation still applies in jamaican law, perhaps it still does,
these owners may be relying on the ignorance of the common man, and the power of their wealth.

to circumvent the law, any knowledgeable Jamaican
lawyer should be able to clarify, however i would not ask one from the surrounding area,

as his opinion may be compromised by the interest of the local powers !!!

good luck!

Was the original fencing at Old Warf done when the US forces were there or because of need to keep Tranquility Bay private?

I think if some of us had land on or very near the beach we would also want to protect our property by not allowing animals to roam freely and destroy our flower and vegetable gardens.
I also know they can make the air you breath very unplesant by doing their #1 and #2 all over the place.
I am from Treasure Beach and I personally know what those animals are capable of doing.
I would say the land owners should have the righ to fence in their property without harrasment from anyone.
We should be so greatful to most of these property owners for employment and all the many good they have done for the community over the years.
How soon we all forget the good they have and is still doing when disaster strikes.
Please let us all live in harmony and share the love.
Christmas is around the corner and the famous (TREE) is also their doings.

Turey, where Tranquility Bay is located is further down at the end of Old Wharf Rd. This is the public beach area located about 1/2 way down Old Wharf Rd.

I was down there the other day (sans camera) and saw several folks enjoying the cleaned up area and swimming in the sea. I also saw Paolo mowing the grass. Thanks so much Paolo for keeping this area looking so nice.

Old Wharf Rd. start at Kingfisher Plaza on the Calabash Bay Rd. It branch off to Old wharf Beach. In front of Pablo or Michael, i'm not sure about the home owners but this is where the road
empties out onto the beach, where Dennis' boat
is now pulled ashore. There was a large Tamarind
tree on the west bank of the road right there.
This is where it is now gated, chained, and padlocked.
Old wharf Rd.continues through and empties out
onto the Great Bay Rd. at Austin Rochester's shop.
Tranquility Bay is a new name.It was Panty Hole
and Sandy Hill Bay. The property facing this this bay is or was owned by the James'.The property west of the James' that faces Old wharf
Bay was owned by the Coke's.
How can we have a Public Beach without a public
road ?. Can someone explain that to me.
I am an Oldtimer,and people of my age don't bother with computer so maybe I should shut up
and leave things as is.

Iam a born jamaican and i have lived abroad for many years. every year i return on my holiday, sometimes twice a year, and each time I come back i see that NON-JAMAICAN nationals (who shall remain nameless- i am not going to mention names because it will be blocked)are taking over the sea front and bringing in their friends, who are using, the US dollars to fool the people. people should take a look at south africa and see what happened to the natives there and this is what EXACTLY what is going to happen in Jamaica on a whole. imagine having your children and grandkids and having to be told where they can walk on the beach. Natives needs to wake up and see what the maroons were fighting for. Do you think as a black jamaican (and I am not being racist) you could go to another mans country and just take over?

To concern native, think that there may be jobs for the treasure beach people.When mr dicker opened up the treasure beach hotel there were jobs for people who wanted to work.These non jamaicans as you called them,may be doing good for the younger generations.This is what makes a country, the rich built it up,and soon it becomes a paradise parish that you and i will be proud of.

Hi concern native you are so right,well said well written.

Hi concern native I totally agree with you this is what I've been saying to my dad.To stop


















selling his land to white people (I am not a racist}but the thoughts scare me If and when I return to my homeland,I might be told you cannot walk here and there It scare the hell out of me.Wake up Jamaican people for the sake of our great nations.


The world can only be grasped by action. not by contemplation.The hand is more important than the eye....The hand is the cutting edge of the mind.

JACOB BRONOSKI.

Am I correct that it is not the selling to white people that gives some of us a jerk; but selling to some with what some call white-hearted ways eg: controlling and fencing ancestral prime beachfront in exchange for jobs etc? and sometimes allegedly doing environmental mischief and other things that remind of Bucky Massa and his days. Is that not done by locals too?

Many of us know white people that are here with us long time and some recent that prove themselves Irie/reasonable by their reasoning and most importantly their actions. I know of some dark skinned people from abroad that thought their skin would excuse their rudeness...wrong..we aint stuuupid.

Skin color thus, to me, is not linked---all the time---to behavior.

As Lover Leep quoted Dr Bronowski above, remember; judge a person by how they utilise the cutting edge of the hand; the thumbs that can grasp and the fingers, capable of great dexterity and marvelous works. What works have my hands wrought today, what gifts or curses did my tongue and thoughts lay?

You?

I don't see why white Jamaicans are better than white Americans; I don't see why black Jamaicans are better than black Americans. I am not so blind I don't notice the outside color of any person, but I think it is the inside of people that makes a difference. Skin is only a covering. We have Jamaicans - white or black - who would sell out their own community.

Look at what is happening right now in America. The newspapers are reporting if Obama was white, he would automatically win the upcoming election. It is sad when people judge others by the color of the skin instead of what is in their hearts.

Stop with the black-white discussion.

We have people from abroad, white and black, who have helped this community very much. Why try to make them feel like we are bigots?

Well said saddened. We need to not judge by color of our skin, but by our character and or our personality. Try and do things to uplift the people and community.

I sure see some people trying, and they are not originally from TB. Try and follow in their footsteps, or look to them as mentors. Mad as some of you might be, I am black, but see others not by the color of their skin.
Enough is enough now.

Treasure Beach Foundation is headed by a white lady from the United States. She is giving scholarships to many of our young people. She is putting books in our schools. She is helping pay the salary of a teacher. She is also giving many Jamaican reliable and decent jobs. So why say having white people come to our community and buy land and participate in trying to make things better is harmful?

Some of us may be bigots Saddened by Discussion.

There are many behaviours over the last 500 years that encourage us to identify white skin with some of this exploitive and cruel past.

The greater mistakes would be in our denial of the existance of this mindset and our cowardice or collective false pride in not wanting to examine why it may exist.

Like a pesky itch, get to the source of the problem and allow the medicine, in this case civil and rational discussion, to heal it.

To put my comments in context.

I can pass for white, in Jamaica. In the Carolinas and other places, the whites were not quite sure, especially with my Jamaican thus 'black' talk and 'cow' brown eyes.

I am at home deep in the bush with the Maroons and bush people; black, coffee, chineeroyal, coolieroyal, brown, redskin and the rare blue eyed blonde anglo-celt from the Irish 'slaves'. No pretences, close to the chlorphyll beings, wise to the ways of the world and ready to laugh, dance, sing and play.

Truth is I am at home with honest folk anywhere, especially where it is quite and pure.

My use of white-hearted, above, include: the love and blind pursuit of money/power over respect for the natural order/Livity, a false sense of entitlement, a certain coldheartedness and the acceptance of denied bullyism and deception to gain ones objective.

These behaviours no longer have anything to do with skin color or ancestry, just attitude.

Treasure Beach love everyone - Why can't people just come to Treasure Beach and enjoy it for what it is??. If you need fencing and you don't like goat then go a Negril and Ochi - better yet buy some land a Kingston. Old time people use to say " Doppie know who to frighten" my version is people know who to frighten.

TB people watch out for the snakes?

If I bring some of my African American friends down to TB and they buy land, then what will be said? Will us white folk at least then be given some slack?
If you don't like who buys the land, then buy it yourself! Can't afford it? Then pool all your money together with others who have your same fears and concerns. In Florida for example, as in TB, the beaches are public. However, you may need to walk a little to get to a public access to get to the beach. So now, if you have to walk around Mr. Smiths property to get to the beach, just do it! Life is too short!

Ya know, here where I live the Japanese and Chinese are buying our land and skyscrapers. I can't buy land or skyscrapers. Oh well...

As so often happens, we've gone way off topic here. This is not a racial thing. The road from the Tamarind Tree to the late Haddon DeLeon's gate was not fenced in by any foreigners; it was fenced in by landowners born and grown right there in Treasure Beach. It was fenced in by people who know better. I have to big up Bowl for his comments. You're right on target brethren.
We may not have the power to stop things, but we know the truth and we should speak up. No amount of trickle down mumbo jumbo about providing jobs and beautification can change the fact that a public right of passage is being denied to a community that have enjoyed such for who knows how long.
Jamdown is a free, seemingly democratic country. There is no place for isms and schisms. ANYONE should be free to buy land and freely do whatever. That is not the issue. The real deal is respecting not only our traditions but, most importantly, our rights.

"Treasure Beach, a unique and unspoiled fishing village located off the beaten track on Jamaica's remote south coast featuring plenty of sun, beach and relaxation."
I'm sorry but this description of TB no longer applies. Oldtimers like myself know that we gave up our way of life for trinkets long ago. And just like the Arawaks before us we face a painful extinction. Some call it progress.

I have a dream, that one day the negro will be judjed not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character!

Dr Martin Luther King Jnr.


Friends! that Profound statement, should be applied to everyone, whatever happened to
one love, or even better yet.

"Out of many, one people."

lets not get ugly!!

When I was in TB the other week I had a walk down to the beach at Old Wharf. At first I was shocked to see that it was fenced off and thought there was no way in but then spotted a gate (which did not put me off entering). It was lovely, just like a garden,there were plants, trees, shade and a nice picnic area. It was very pretty.
PS I know for a fact that none of my TB friends would be put off by a fence to the beach!!

If you are trying to keep the goat's out, you should fence in your place and leave the beach open for people to walk, you said there is a gate , I would not feel comfortable opening a gate and walk on some one property, so plant your flowers on your land and fence that part off. soon or later every one will be using this as an excused to get private beach, I am sick and tired of people taking us for fools.This need's to stop.

I agree with you sick and tired.

I AGREE OLD WHARF BEACH IS BETTER MAINTAINED SINCED IT HAS BEEN FENCED BUT IT MUST BE CLEARLY POSTED THAT IT IS A PUBLIC BEACH. IF WE DO NOT MONITER CAREFUL WE COULD BE DENIED ACCESS TO THE BEACH WHICH WE HAVE ALL ENJOYED FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS.
WAKE UP, STAND UP, STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS

At least 1,500 years Mr Reynolds.

I'd be willing to contribute a smalls towards a sign making project. For this beach, our caution spots etc

Eg: Welcome. Please keep gate locked; goats.

Kindly leave nothing behind.

And: Swimmers beware of strong tides here.

I was in TB last week whilst on Vacation and I too noticed the fences that were in place by Jack Spratts and I just assume it was all private, is it?

The reality is the natives are broke and when people make them an offer for their land by the sea, they jump to the offer and sell the land for little or nothing.

Can someone drag my memory was there a protest some years ago about the privization of the beaches in TB by local residents and people from Southfield.

I can forsee that in about 15 years from now that majority of the beaches will be private and the local people will not be able to bathe in God's sea, as they won't be able to afford to.

Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with some private beaches ans I think Fonthill is fab, but where there is a large community the beaches should not become private.

Jack Sprat beach is NOT private, the citizens and visitors are allowed to use it, but are not allowed to use the facilities unless they are a patron.

I have left jamaica over 32 years and I know back in the days Calabash bay/great bay were the famous beaches, now a days everyone goes to Treasure beach and they dont mention calabash bay.
To satisfy my curiousity whilst I was on holiday last month I drove down there to ascertain if the sea was still there and all I could see was just boats and not a soul insight.

Can someone please enlighten me if I am jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Thanks

Aquarius- UK

Thanks for confirmation that Jack Spratts is not private.

is beach at jakes private or public

Pasta-uk
you said
"The reality is the natives are broke and when people make them an offer for their land by the sea, they jump to the offer and sell the land for little or nothing."

Maybe you can direct me to these people who are selling their land for little or nothing.

I spent a lot of time looking for land on my last reach and I can promise you that not one sea side land owner is selling their land for next to nothing or else I would be owning a lot of Treasure Beach seaside property right now.

And not all land owners are broke - the owners that I had dealings with were living very comfortable and had no air of desperation or need about them.

I think you will find the fence has always been there, it is just the beach that has shrunk, all thanks to the storms and hurricanes! The almond tree disappeared on Frenchman, and the lovely tree we used to sit under for shade on the beach at Old Wharf, as well as half the lovely palm trees, ruined by the sea water.

Beaches should not be owned by anyone. My mother, who lived in Cyprus had many an argument with guys who said she couldnt sit in a certain place as their sunloungers went there! Red rag to a bull that subject!

In places like Negril and Ochie etc they do have places/beaches where you have to pay and are fenced off but this is unfortunately due to a certain few who spoil it for others by badgering you with drugs and sexual favours but thank gaud that is a rarity in beloved TB.