Hello,thankyou for your concern and interest in the fishermens concerns right now,
As most of you are aware the repeater/antenna which recieves/sends signals from the fishermans vhf radios was broken,
therefore the fishermen had no contact with people on land should they come into trouble,many have died and most recently 4 men went missing,
there will be a costing of the repair to the antenna by tomorrow which is tuesday from bell communications,Jason henzell from breds is dealing with that,he has told me that the vhf radios that the fishermen have are approx $120 each and they also need batteries
I thought it would be nice if the people on this board that have been worried upset and concerned for the fishermen and their familes and their general safety,if we could all pull together and donate some money however small or large,whatever we feel we can afford to makesure these fishermen are going out to sea with at least the bare minimum safety requirements which is a working emergency radio and a working antenna.
I will post the direct address and banking details for jason henzell as soon as he sends it to me ,hopefully today,he has been very quick and efficient with dealing with everything so far.
so far we know the radios are $120 each plus batteries and we will have a costing of the antenna by tomorrow.
Who's with me!!!???????

Waterproofing the radios seems to be a key.

Saltwater and electronic circuits are no friends. Is a ziplock bag suffient?

US$ or Ja$ Sheryl?

yes waterproofing the radios does seem a priority,the dearer ones would probably stand the water more but even the cheaper ones are supposed to be waterproof.I think a thick ziplocked bag would be fine.
As for the currency of the donation,if you have Paypal ,you can donate in any currency worldwide and it is through a very secure system and is used for banking and shopping worldwide so I don't think it really matters,(that is if that is the system they will use) whichever you are happiest to donate in.I will have the costing and payment details definately today so I will look forward to recieving them and everybody can start to help.
I think this is a very worthy cause and it wont just help people it will saves lives,I hope when I get the final information later people really pull together and just give what they can..even 2 or 3 dollars goes a long way if there are enough people donating.Don't think a small amount wont help because it will go a long way if enough people do the same.I know a lot of people from Europe are reading this also and we get almost 2 dollars to the pound so that will work out quite well,as it almost doubles your donation..I will look forward to updating you all laterx

ok we have a costing of the antenna repair now and a means of donating so I hope people put their money where their mouth and heart is!
here is the E-mail I received from Tanya director of breds..
TANYA BROWN director of breds(the treasure beach foundation)has sent me the costing...here is a copy of her email.....

Bell Communication has fixed the radios and the cost is J$40,775= US$582.50 We will also need a surge protector because this was also damage by the lightning,but I don’t have the exact figures as yet. Anything that can be contributed will be highly appreciated.

Regards

Tanya

if you are donating please be sure to let breds know what the donation is for (the fishermen) so we can find out how much we managed to raisex

Sheryl what you are doing is excellent. I have read all the entries about the radios and life jackets and so forth. I have some questions. Exactly how will these radios be handed out? I ask this because I have seen donated things go to friends instead of being distributed in a more equitable way. Also will it be required that each fisherman in a boat with a donated radio has a decent life jacket on board? I am suggesting that one or two fishermen from each of the four fishing bays be appointed to serve as the Captains for these efforts and that they agree not to hand out radios unless the rules are strictly followed. We cannot make people follow the rules, but we don't need our charity going to those who choose to disregard their own safety and the safety of their crews.

someone please explain how to wire money and what a rounting number is!is it like a sort code?

first things first, let us get the donations together to provide basic security measures for the fishermen but if we succeed in doing that we must not forget about the fishermens family too,
the families they have left behind ,the children with no dads now and wifes with no husbands and mothers with no sons.
I do not know if anybody in the area has already done this but it would be nice to send these familes a gift basket of some sort,obviously nothing can stop their grief right now but something just to show people care about them would be nice...even a fruit basket ..anything just to say we care-I am sure somebody maybe will have already done this but if not ,something to think about.
For people not living in the area a card or something else could be made online and printed etc-Lots of different things people could do,Let's not forget the families

I DID POST THE BANKING DONATION DETAILS but they have not been posted on this site,i am not sure why as it is a real registered charity so I see no harm in posting the details..please email me on jamaicansmiles@hotmail.com to get the details.

ICARE2-very good points raised..I think it would be a very good idea to have a couple of captains from each bay be responsible and play a part in distribution alongside perhaps jason or somebody at breds.Perhaps they could all meet up at jakes on the day of distrubution to discuss the saftey issues and be told they NEED to have lifejackets on board..personally if i found no lifejackets on board i would confiscate the radio but I am not in charge!Also we need to makesure there is enough donations to cover the cost of each boat having a radio plus lifejackets.
does anybody have a rough estimate of how many fishing boats there are approximately so we can get a rough idea of how many radios need to be purchased?

A routing number is the number on the bottom of your check.Not your account number,but the other.Also if you are wiring money from abroad,you need the account number it's going to along with the specific bank's routing number.I only know the routing number for national commercial bank.If that's the bank you choose to use I can provide that info.

come on people where are you all?!
Excellent suggestions from Icare2
If we all pull together and discuss a real solution to the problem ,I will put the case forward and the fishermen will be heard and helped through everybody working together.

Sheryl, we have not received a post with donation details in it.

-TBNet

Can the donation be hand delivered to Jason if send to western union.I dont mean they will deliver it but send to a family member and let they take it to jason for me.

No disrespect intended, but a fruit basket? Let's make the assumption that friends and family are already gathering around the grieving families as is customary. They need prayers and hugs and ongoing emotional support. TB takes care of its own. It is a loving and warm community, one in which people automatically do for each other.

Sheryl, I for one am sending absolutely no money until I am CLEAR how the radios will be distributed. Plus, now we are talking about life jackets too. In total, exactly how much money are you trying to raise? You thinking something would be a very good idea is far different from saying exactly how something will be done. I realize you are going above and beyond to do all this, so I am not meaning to sound like I am putting you down. I have seen well meaning things turn into favoritism in Treasure Beach, and others have too. If you present the readers with a real plan, then my instinct is people will contribute. If people send money and then find out such and such a boat received nothing because it was out to sea or the captain might not be on Breds preferred list, then the people who sent their money will be annoyed. If these items are given out but the life jackets are not used, it will be a wasted effort, something like giving out a fire alarm without a battery. We need a PLAN for this equipment and for ENFORCEMENT. Then I think you will get your money. One more thing is are the boat captains taking no responsibility for even supplying life jackets? Is everything supposed to be charity?

hi again thanks for letting me know you do not have it!perhaps I did not press the post button but I did write it and then I posted asking what a rounting number was!anyway probably my mistake..here it is
BREDS-THE TREASURE BEACH FOUNDATION

6 HIGH STREET

BLACK RIVER

ST. ELIZABETH

JAMAICA



ROUNTING#026009797



A/C#401070668- BREDS –THE TREASURE BEACH FOUNDATION

I care2-again very good points raised-do you live in treasure beach?perhaps you could be involved somehow,your ideas are very good and I do think the idea of having 2 captains from each bay representing is a very good idea,
I have asked how many boats are there approx in the area?does anybody have a rough idea?
The reason I have not given a target goal is because I do not have that figure to work on,but I am working on it!
Also you mentioned is everything a charity?
Once I know the numbers of boats we are working with and how many crew to a boat then we can discuss the lifejacket issue and until I get a costing on them and speak with somebody hopefully a fisherman or his wife to see what they would think is a fair payment plan towards one I could not say just yet.
I understand totally what you are saying about favouritism so I do think this should be an all or nothing project really,it is totally unfair just to provide friends and such with equipment leaving others with none.
Once I know the rough estimate on how many boats there are we could go from there.
We could generate a list either on here or somebody in the treasure beach area could take charge of it and be responsible for making sure every boat is listed on the list and the names/number of crew that way nobody gets missed out.I am going to put your ideas forward to tanya and see what her opinion is on this and I will let you know the outcome
thanks everybody and please continue to get involved in this discussion as once everybody stops talking everybody stops doing too!

Hi beach girl,very kind of you to donate and yes it can be hand delivered to jason.Makesure you tell him what it is for.

cyndy-with ref to your post..

"No disrespect intended, but a fruit basket?"

(just a thought,the first idea that popped into my head as a lot of people on here who care are too far away to give hugs and I did not see any other suggestions put forward)

"Let's make the assumption "
(I never assume)
"that friends and family are already gathering around the grieving families as is customary. They need prayers and hugs and ongoing emotional support."(obviously)

"TB takes care of its own"
(I think that is very rude)

No disrespect to you either but do not put somebody down for trying to help,I was the only one who wrote down an idea( be it to your dislike.)And never assume anything-I assumed somebody would have fixed this situation before the last 4 people went missing and obviously me and a lot of other people assumed wrong.Instead of picking at the ideas you do not like why not suggest something positive?

ICARE2 I have put both of our suggestions in an E-mail to Tanya and I will let you all know what the response is. ASAP!

oh my goodness!...INDEED scrap the fruit basket idea!I have just taken a look at the photographs taken on the night of the fishermen lost at sea memorial...how fantastic an idea was that?how thoughtful and it looked a lovely special evening.I must admit it looked better than my fruit basket idea!But glad to see that somebody else was thinking of the families too to arrange such a lovely event

SHERYL I hope we are not talking about every boat on the beach. What we want to deal with is the cays men and deep sea fishermen NOt Tour Boat men alot dont do fishing just touring.

Could somebody please explain this in more detail to me and does this offer still stand?
this was from the hook and line fishing tournament i think in 2002
The community received one more bonus in the form of an offer from MIDA, the Micro Investment Development Agency. They have pledged a revolving loan of $1,000,000J at a 6% concessionary rate for bona fide Treasure Beach fisherman to purchase safety equipment.

Gee Cyndy, if my son, dad, wife or whoever I loved alot died tragically, and some person I did not know, and never met sent me a fruit basket, I would once again have some faith in the human race as a species with compassion. People send flowers for funerals. Would you belittle that too? What is wrong with us doing something... ANYTHING that makes us feel good?
That we are thinking of others besides ourselves?
When tragety strikes, people reach out in different ways. I think we do this as much for ourselves as we do for you.
"TB takes care of its own" you say. From the UK to Canada to the US there are lots of poeple who have TB now engrained in their souls. Not many from TB have the UK Canada or US ingrained in their souls, as very few have actually visited us. So please expand yourself and look at the bigger picture.

ok after taking a look at lifejackets they are priced ,for the decent ones between 50usd and 80 usd per piece. We could probably get a reduction in price if buying wholesale,so an approximate estimate averaging on 60 usd a life jacket per person,going on a 4 manned boat would cost
60 usdx4=210usd

plus the vhf radio

1 radio per boat costing 120 usd

so rough estimate for a 4 man boat would be:

330 usd per boat that is approx 170 pounds sterling gbp (plus the battery)

I really need to know how many boats roughly there are to progress any further.No point me guessing.And how many men usually go out in one boat?is 4 about right?or more or less?I cannot get any wholesale prices without these figures.

I found this piece of information and wondered if any of the buisness sponsors would be interested in sponsoring towards this project we are trying to raise funds for...I will contact them all and let you all know IF I receive a response,in the meantime I hope everybody else is thinking of ideas too as it has all gone quiet!!....
BREDS (which is short for Brethren) started this tournament (hook and line)for the purpose of enhancing marine safety. The goal of this year’s tournament was to purchase a radio system with a repeater. This initiative arose from the loss of several area fishermen. The objective was reached, thanks to our many sponsors, including IGL, Hardware and Lumber, Butch Wire by Tankweld and Turman Tackle. The Rt. Hon. Donald Buchanan also made a $100,000 donation towards the radio system purchase. BREDS has now acquired the operating license from Post and Telegraph, making this the most successful tournament to date

Hi I would love to help too, i have a pay pal account, what are the pay pal details so i can donate?

I seem to remember when there was the hurricane that treasurebeach.net put a donate button directly on this site and I am almost sure you could donate through paypal,
can anybody confirm this and would it be possible to set this up again?for people wishing to pay online easily quickly through a one time payment from their chosen card for this fishermens project that we are all very concerned about?

What is the name of the real registered charity? Will donors from America and the UK get tax advantages by donating through/to it?

GONEBACK-until Cyndy offers something positive and good to the conversation there is no point dwelling on the bad,if we were to listen to opinions such as we can take care of our own..we would derive from that,that we are of no use and not needed.
It will take more than one persons put down to stop me from caring.Hopefully she did not scare anyone off or make them think their donation is not needed nor wanted.

Hi Lisa thanks in advance for your upcoming donation!!I too have paypal and was hoping breds used this as it is very easy,but they have posted their banking details which I have posted above,You just pop in to your local bank and give them that information and they wire it over.It is very easy ,it's just that you have to go into the bank to do it,I am not sure if you can do it with online banking..maybe we should/could enquire.
It is all very legal and safe and is a registered charity and all you have to do is google breds to see the wonderful work they have done in the area.

In response to the person who was saying they hope the radios and jackets are for the fishermen and not the tour companies..
YES that is correct, this is for the fishermen who go out to sea and fishing is their livelyhood.

LISBETH- THE NAME OF THE REAL REGISTERED CHARITY IS THE TREASURE BEACH FOUNDATION OTHERWISE LOCALLY KNOWS AS BREDS-YES IT IS REGISTERED IN THE USA AND DONATIONS ARE TAX DEDUCTABLE IF YOU WISH A PORTION OF IT BACK..!YOU CAN CONTACT THEM IN PERSON THROUGH THEIR WEBSITE OR ON THE TELEPHONE AND THEIR BANKING DETAILS FOR DONATIONS ARE AS POSTED ABOVE ..THANKYOU.

There is Breds: The Treasure Beach Foundation and there is the Treasure Beach Foundation in the USA. These are both different charities with similar name.

"Info" is correct. Breds: THE Treasure Beach Foundation is a JAMAICAN charity and donations to it are NOT tax-deductible for Americans. Treasure Beach Foundation, based in Virginia, IS an official U.S. charity, and donations to it ARE tax-dedictible. This is not necessarily a reason to donate to one charity or the other, but Sheryl's information is incorrect.

Breds
Jakes Place
Calabash Bay PA
Treasure Beach
St. Elizabeth
JAMAICA

Both organizations seem to do fine work, but as far a I can determine, Treasure Beach Foundation (in the USA) is the ONLY one of the two that is a legitimate 501 C 3 organization. (I contributed to them and got a letter saying my contribution was "tax-deductible" and I had "received no goods or services in exchange for your donation.") On the advice of someone in the know, I looked up the two groups using both the IRS and Guidestar lists of IRS-recognized nonprofit organizations. Breds, the Jamaican one, is not on the list, but Treasure Beach Foundation based in the USA IS. My opinion is Breds should change their published information so people like Sheryl are not giving out incorrect legal information.

for your perusal
http://www.jis.gov.jm/development/html/20030514t090000-0500_304_jis__breds___set ting_the_stage_for_local_community_development.asp

I apologise ,I made a mistake .Treasure beach foundation is registered so you can get a portion of your donation back while the other one breds,the treasure beach foundation is not therefore you donate of your own free will and don't get anything in return apart from knowing that you helped a worthy cause.
If you do your research on breds you will see all of the fantastic work that they do in the area and have been doing so for many years.
I do apologise for making the mistake,I confused the 2..I just give for giving not because I know I can get a portion of it back but thankyou for clarifying that for others and highlighting my mistake.

going back to the comment..
"My opinion is Breds should change their published information so people like Sheryl are not giving out incorrect legal information."

Breds are not at fault ,they did not mislead me in any way-I knew one was registered in the usa and one was not I just made a genuine mistake.

by saying "people like sheryl"
I hope you meant helpful caring people like sheryl!

Bottom line is I made an error for which I have apologised for and nobody is forcing anybody to donate. Neither do I have anything to gain by you doing so.
Personally I feel if people think it is a worthy cause and know the money will go direct to the project then they will donate and not spend hours researching how if and when they can claw part of their donation back.
If you wish to give please give and give with a happy heart.

I am sorry I AM CONFUSED NOW-HERE IS WHAT IS SAYS ON THE BREDS WEBSITE
The Treasure Beach Foundation was recently registered in the United States, making donations from USA tax deductible. For information about our upcoming projects, or donations, please contact:

Director, Tanya Parchment
Breds - The Treasure Beach Foundation
Calabash Bay P.A.
St. Elizabeth, Jamaica
info@breds.org
(876) 965 3000 - ph / (876) 965 0552 - fax
it clearly says donations are tax deductable so maybe i did not make a mistake..I suggest if it really matters to you that you get a portion back that you can telephone them to clarify.
To me it does not matter whether it is registered or not as i have faith that jason and tanya will do the right thing as they have already repaired the antenna and kept to their word.

does anybody know if the calash fishermens co-op could be of assistance in anyway?does anybody have an e-mail adress for them?

What's the name and address of BREDS or TB Foundation's bank?

Is the routing # sufficient? Last time I sent $ out of Canada the bank wanted a SWIFT code. Maybe it's different when sending $ to Ja.

Thanks Sheryl.

I have E-mailed tanya director of breds(twice)with our suggestions and asked for her comments and ideas on the subject and I also forwarded one to jason-now I am still waiting for replies from both of them very patiently!(not!)and will let you all know as soon as I hear anything.I honestly thought they would have got back to me by now

I was reading the website called food for the poor and they had an article on it about fishermen saying they regularly set up projects such as what we are trying to achieve and they give the fishermen everything they need in regards to saftey equipment but the fishermen have to give 5 percent of their catch to the poor who can't really afford to buy their food.
I don't know if this is something worth asking about or not.what do you think?
or perhaps they could help in some other way?

THIS ARTICLE is very interesting and talks a bit about the original fishermens project
http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/messages/467/2013736.html

beachgirl ,lisa, turey, myself and Icare2 are the only 5 people willing to donate it seems so far !
Please come forward and let us know if you too are interested in this project,If you do not have money to donate you can help in other ways,e-mailing people telephone calls writing lists finding out costs ,telling others about the project etc.Please work together so we can get this sorted out ,I do not want to read in another few months that this situation is still going on and another few boats have gone missing.

UNDER THE COMPANIES OFFICE OF JAMAICA I FOUND THESE DETAILS
60134 'Breds' The Treasure Beach Foundation Limited
Charitable Services
Local
ACTIVE

Turey ,to wire over money you should just need the account number and routing number as I posted above,that is the information given to me by Tanya (as instructed to by Jason)-I don't know who they bank with sorry ,maybe drop them an email or ring them in the meantime I will try and find out for you.

You are also missing the point here which is to provide the fishermen with basic saftey requirements ,if you do not trust breds to handle this then you always have the option of giving it personally or going through a different organisation.
After spending many hours reading about breds work and the history of jakes and the henzell family and speaking with him on the telephone and through e-mail I know they will do as they say.They are a non profit organisation which means they do not gain anything from helping either so I would spend less time concentrating on them and more time concentrating on ways to progress this project.So far nobody has even bothered to estimate the approx number of deep-sea fishing boats involved.

Hi Sheryl please can you post which bank i am to pay, whats it called?
The account number....
is there no pay pal set up?
thanks Lisa

Sujestion,
One of my sisters living in NY. is sponcering
a child going to school. Every school morn the
child comes to my house collect $300 and is off to school. If the child dont come I find out why she is not going to school.I'm sujesting (from these donations using this method to send each
child of the missing fishermen)a secure way of getting these kids to school.
Appoint a reliable nebour of each child to voluntere.
(Bowl)

I am still waiting for a response from tanya or jason to the idea put forward and will keep you all updated asap in the meantime let us think on how we can progress,i still do not have figures of fishing boats in the area therefore cannot even get a target amount to raise nor get correct wholesale information on costs.
I am very suprised nobody in the area has come forward with this vital piece of info.I am not expecting you to go out and count them 1 by 1 a rough estimate will suffice,I have no idea whether we are talking 200 boats or 2000!please get back to me.

bowl that is a nice idea about sponsoring a child for school,you should set up another thread about it,
hopefully we can raise enough for the safety equipment needed for the fishermen through this thread and perhaps you could set one up specifically for helping the children?

hi lisa as far as i know there is no paypal set up-there was a paypal set up or a way of paying by card on this actual site once and if you see the main wall i have asked rebecca who runs this iste would it be possible to do that again for this cause..
other than that here is the banking information given to me by breds-it is the routing number and account number
i do not know who they bank with but you could email or telephone them if these details arent enough.
this is the info they sent me.
BREDS-THE TREASURE BEACH FOUNDATION

6 HIGH STREET

BLACK RIVER

ST. ELIZABETH

JAMAICA



ROUNTING#026009797



A/C#401070668- BREDS –THE TREASURE BEACH FOUNDATION


if you do not wish to send money through a bank you could always send them a cheque.

I hope the situation over the sports hall is not going to put a cloud over what we are trying to achieve for the fishermen as I feel the fishermens safety is a priority.

I hope so too Sheryl.

It just occured to me that if I was born and raised in an ancient (+/- 1,500 years old), small, isolated and near self sufficient community, I may be resistant to 'outsiders' trying to dictate 'tings. Not to suggest that is a reality.

Even in Kingston, a large and very diverse community, we would not take kindly to any bway from out of town telling, or seeming to tell, us Kingstonians wa fi du in our runnings. Or am I exagerating?

I hope this, if it does exist, is not a major inhibitor in this effort to save lives and lessen a major local family stressor; economically and emotionally.

I have no hesitation in passing any assistance from myself and family to Jason for any project.

I look forward to the SP plans being published.

I find it quite strange that not one person from Treasure Beach appears to have listed the number of fishing boats from each of the four beaches. I know this is read by many in Treasure Beach, though I am also aware a lot of residents do not have computers. Is Sheryl going to all this trouble for nothing? If people there do not offer up good information, how is she to make progress with her project? Does Breds not have their own Paypal account?

I do not know how it works in Jamaica, but here in America, most employees of non-profit charities are paid salaries. Though most people working for non-profits probably work longer hours for less pay than do their counterparts in private industry or the U.S. government, they have to live too. I do not think being paid for working for a charity is wrong. My pay comes from the donations we collect and the money we raise through fundraising events. If I didn't get paid, I would have to find a different job. I cannot afford to be a volunteer. So if Tanya and Jason and anyone else at BREDS gets paid for their work, this does not seem abnormal or wrong to me. I would not call this "gaining by helping". I would call this what happens in the real world.

I take your opinion into consideration,and I have no idea whether jason pays himself a wage out of donations from the community members or not,I would not have thought so given that the community members who do not earn a lot themselves are donating a dollar a night per staying customer and a dollar a taxi ride/tour,I don't think there would be much to take a wage from also he has jakes and a full time wage from that.
Jasons finances are his own buisness but for this fishermens project which I am trying to raise awareness and funds for the idea is 100 percent of it goes to the items needed.I see no need at all for anybody to need to make a profit from it nor take a wage.people are donating money which takes a few minutes and volunteers can distribute the items ,there is no need for a wage to be taken into account.Yes everybody has to make a living but how long has it taken to read this message?and how long does it take to donate ?it does not warrant a wage!
the money donated for the fishermens safety items needs to be 100 percent for them and them only.

In response to you turey,I too hope people are not too proud to accept help from "foreign"
I do not understand the whole concept of that thought anyway and never have,If I need help I ask for it regardless of what colour/religion the person is or where they live.
There is no shame in asking for or needing help ,every single person has needed help at some point in their lives from needing help to walk,swim talk etc to financial help and other things.
Do not let pride get in the way of what is important.
It is not always about money it is about staying focused and having determination sometimes as i am trying to do with this project,if i had the money i would just give it personally.I like to help if I can in whatever way I can.
And what help I do decide to give ,I do happily ,nobody forces me nor do I wish to get a wage nor claim any of it back or expect anything in return.
Everyone can help another person in a small way,
and it is the small things that count and also add up to big thingsxhopefully people will start getting involved with this and we will see things starting to happen.I am hoping sooner rather than later before more lives are lost.

I'm with you there maam!

As I now consume fish (listen to the body at all times) I see myself as part of the cycle of the fisherman to my dish; with rice and peas. To add a bit more to my bill for security and safety of the primary movers, the fishermen, is a pleasure.

I am almost at average N American speed but still have to remember things run at Jamaica Time and slower in TB.

This is one of its attractions yes?

thankyou turey and the adding a bit to your bill part just needs to be a one off payment to everybody a one time small contribution from everybody would be all it needed to know the fishermen were safe each and every time they go 25 miles+out to sea in stormy weather to provide that meal.
yes things run slowly in jamaica but this is not a time to mess around and be slow.
I asked about a week ago how many boats are we talking about roughly and have not got a response yet.That in my opinion is careless and unreasonable as while people are sitting back and cannot be bothered to give an answer more and more fishermen daily are still going out without this equipment.
There are a few people who could have given answers perhaps icare2 or livehere..especially live here if he/she lives there she/he can probably see the boats every day even if they can only estimate the numbers of boats in their own bay would be a great help.
I am quite appalled that nobody has bothered to try and give this information really it gives the impression that nobody really cares afterall.
Nobody will donate money until we know how much we need so like I said days ago we cannot go any further until somebody gives us a rough estimate.shameful really

Sheryl, relax a little, don't get yourself worked-up anymore,everything will be alright...please forget about donations at this time and thank you for your efforts. Also keep in mind that every non-profit org. has administrative costs so don't expect all donations to any particular cause.

hello jah p-why do we need to forget about donations?
have the fishermen been provided with a lifejacket each-a vhf radio a ziplock bag plus batteries now?
which kind person/company sorted that out?
thats great news if you have managed to sort it or somebody else has.
we were just starting to get somewhere too as beach girl went to the efforts of listing each boat requiring saftey equipment in 2 of the bays.

also this was not being done as a company or through a company it was just being done out of peoples hearts and spare time and i do not think it is fair to take a wage out of genuine donations just for sending a couple of emails and keeping a reciept.it was not a full time job-just purchasing lifejackets online in bulk which would take about 2 minutes to purchase.

please let us all know who sorted everything out as I have got people very interested in donating from other sites too and I will have to inform them about it too.
thanks a lot.

can anybody confirm what jah p has said?..

is everything sorted out or should we continue?

I hope jah p is correct otherwise we have lost 2 days of hopefully progress.

As nobody has confirmed if the above is true I will continue.
I am working on a figure so far of approx 40 boats

40 boats=40 radios@ 120 usd each ,so 4800 usd for the radios in total. (and they need batteries)

guessing 4 men on board (need somebody to confirm this-)

so 4x50usd(lifejackets)=200 usd per 4 manned boat


4people on 40 boats=160 people needing lifejackets @ a cost of 50 usd each=8000usd

bringing the total approx cost to:
8000usd(lifejackets)
4800 (radios)
=12,800 usd

if we split that into boats we need 320usd per boat which will provide one radio and 4 lifejackets.
that is approx £160 sterling.per boat.
That is a very small amount to have to risk your life for,let us all work together to raise the money.

SO NEW TARGET GOAL TO RAISE IS:
LIFEJACKETS=8000USD APPROX £4000 STERLING

AND TEN RADIOS=1200 USD APPROX £600 STERLING

HOPEFULLY WE WILL BE ABLE TO GET THE LIFEJACKETS AT A WHOLESALE PRICE OR AN ORGANISATION/COMPANY/CHARITY MAY BE OF ASSISTANCE SOMEHOW TOWARDS THAT GOAL.

CONTINUE TO DONATE TO BREDS TO GET THE BALL MOVING.

GREAT NEWS EVERYBODY!! US AID have donated 30 radios!!tanya has confirmed they have donated 30 radios going back from the hurricane.
so going on my approx estimate of 40 boats we now need only concentrate on raising enough money for 10 radios and all of the lifejackets.

I have e-mailed tanya back with all of the rough costings and what we are trying to achieve and i am just awaiting confirmation that they can 100 percent work with us all to raise the money and distribute the saftey equipment,hopefully I will have a confirmation e-mail later today ,I will let you all know ASAP.
I have also drawn a rough map of treasure beach bays with all of the boats names I have been given up to now.
I have e-mailed that to this website and hopefully they will be able to post it.please continue to keep adding names to that list.

That's great... however, the fishermen should also feel and be responsible for their own safety too. The fishermen make money, belong to "pardners" (sp?), etc. and can often save to buy motors, wire, pots, fuel, etc. Why shouldn;t they be responsible (at least in part) for paying for safety items as well??

I was married to a T.B. fisherman. Yes, he was concerned about the safety going to far sea, and lack of communications. And he captained his crew in the the safest way possible (mostly in days before there were radios, life vests, etc.)by watching the weather and praying for safety each and every time going out.

I think it's a great idea that you have, and trust me, lifejackets should have been on deck way before now, but the fishermen also need to feel responsible for their safety and the safety of their crew. If you fundraise and "give" them everything, the next time something happens, it may be expected again and again.

The fishermen need some accountability in their personal safety. A lot of the fishermen in Treasure Beach HAVE bought lifejackets and taken safety measures in the past couple of years. They have used some of their own profits to make their boats more safe and their crew more safe. And they have done it in ways that make sense to them and their needs.

Like you, I had concerns when I leved there, and I ONCE took down and donated 4 lifejackets about 8 years ago when I was living in T.B., and do you think I ever saw them used or offered for use after that time? Needless to say, I never donated that type of item again. A lot of the old school fishermen still live in a way that they are accustomed and have been brought up at sea, and that is NOT wearing lifejackets. One once told me when I asked why lifejackets were so frowned upon: "Yu cyann pull pots rite wid a lifejacket on".

Like someone else said, why not "ask" the fishing community (fishermen), or post a notice at the co-op and see who is actually interested in applying for assistance or help in getting lifejackets and radios for their boats and crews. Why solicit money for crews that will not use the lifejackets that you are assuming they want and will use?

Just my thoughts... I find after living a number of years in T.B. that assuming or thrusting an idea upon someone who is comfortable operating the way they are is often lost on them. These fishermen are an independent bunch, and although I really see your passion in helping solve a growing problem at sea regarding safety, and I applaud it, I think you need to question the people (fishermen) who would be the reciepients of your donations and see if they would use what you are offering, or if those items could be better used (or used at all) by someone else.

AMEN, my two cents!

I admit that I've tried to do projects in the same manner before, only to see much hard work and money go to waste. I had the best intentions but I didn't remember the first rule of providing assistance: make sure those you're trying to help want and value the help.

This applies to any country, any community, any set of people.

THe Group house in Calabash Bay is always empty- what purpose does that place serves

Great news about the 30 radios found, assuming they work for the intended purposses. Here is my dumb question: Where have they been since the hurricane which was almost a year ago? Do we have other resources that sit unused that could help save lives or feed people or whatever?

I also agree with the many people who have explained how fiercely independent the fishermen are. Too may fishermen equate being "manly" with being foolhardy. What good is a man if he never makes it home?

There needs to be serious safety education given to the fishermen. After awhile, it will work. Look at all the people who now wear seatbelts in Jamaica; 10 years ago, that seemed to be the mark of being a wimp. Now people have seen how they save lives.

My project idea came from the many deaths in the area from having no safety equipment-either through choice or because they could not afford it.
I am sure the wives, mothers and children of these men will appreciate the items and hopefully encourage them to use them.
Once they have the safety equipment it is then their personal choice if they wish to use it or foolishly not and risk their lives.

I am sure they would rather go out with radios having contact with land than be out there alone in a storm.

The fishermen could perhaps pay a small portion of the cost of their lifejacket

I understand what you are saying about once you give they would expect it again and again but this is a one off project-do not confuse kindness for weakness!

eric-how can the community not want safety equipment when so many lives have been lost due to a simple lifejacket or radio not being on board?surely they value their life?

Absolutely true and well said My Two Cents. And FYI I've heard the boat that just went down did have life jackets on board.

"Just my thoughts... I find after living a number of years in T.B. that assuming or thrusting an idea upon someone who is comfortable operating the way they are is often lost on them. These fishermen are an independent bunch, and although I really see your passion in helping solve a growing problem at sea regarding safety, and I applaud it, I think you need to question the people (fishermen) who would be the reciepients of your donations and see if they would use what you are offering, or if those items could be better used (or used at all) by someone else."

Furthermore, sometimes silence speaks louder than, well many messages some accusing people of not caring. If the residents have not come out in support I would guess there is a reason. Maybe further investigation should be made and see if all these efforts wouldn't be better used for something else, or for someone else. Your heart is in the right place but you may want to check with the fishermen to see if this is really what they need.

The fishermen I spoke with who make a living from far sea fishing already have life jackets and radios and their own antennas so they don't need to depend on any other antennas. This was their choice and they made it a priority to afford them. Of course, as my two cents pointed out the life jackets sit in the bow of the boat

sheryl I couldn't tell you waht they want or don't want. I have not asked to them.

Have you?

I don't intend this to be a mean comment. I am asking if you have spoken to any of the principals involved to ask what their needs/wants are.

Sheryl,
Many fishermen lose their lives at sea because of carelessness. It can hardly be the case that these men could not have afforded a life jacket or a radio. Somehow, they come up with the money to secure the boat, the engine, the fishpots etc. So what about these smaller items that are so important to their safety?
Believe it or not, some (not all) fishermen are driven by superstion; so much so that they will not even carry a life jacket to sea because they believe it will bring them bad luck!
By all means, try to offer them assitance, but do not believe that it is for want of trying in the past that some of them continue to be in this kind of predicament.
I have lost relatives to the sea as well. I know what I am talking about.
There are persons who have contributed to this website in the past who could testify about the efforts they made many years ago to provide safety equipment for fishermen and educate them on the need to exercise due care, but too many of them have ignored these messages or have not made good use of the items they were given.
It might well be more useful to try educating the next generation of fishermen - some of the children who are now in school but are contemplating a life in the sea. If the message can get through to them then perhaps the cycle can be broken.

I have not spoken to the fishermen in person yet no.Good comment.
If what 4 cents is saying is found to be true ,in that all of the fishermen already have radios their own antennas and lifejackets then yes a decision will have to be made.
The fact that not only Breds(who are on site)and U.S aid are involved in providing these items and also the missing men and deaths over the years ,and quite a few people coming forward concerned about the antenna repair and the safety of the fishermen,I feel they ARE NOT ALL fully equipped.
Iwill investigate your comments further though, as you are correct there is no point those 30 radios and money for lifejackets going to an area that already has them.We WILL HAVE TO CLARIFY THAT.
my four cents-I know the people in Treasure beach care,I was wondering why nobody had come forward with the amount of boats in question but they have now,
at least 2 or 3 people are getting that information so that is really good.

Sherryl...
I have to agree with Eric here. Until you speak directly to those who you are trying/wanting to help, you will not fully understand their needs or means.

Fishermen make money, albeit more at some times than others. If radios, lifejackets, etc. were a priority to them (like fuel, food, motors, fishing supplies, etc.), then they would fit the costs into their budgets.

You need to look before you leap. People who sustain themselves in the fishing community of Treasure Beach cannot be made to change their ways - tragedy or no tragedy. A lot of those fishermen come from generations and generations of fishermen, and they have learned by and from their forefathers. No matter how much you want to help sometimes, and how fully your heart is into a cause, it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks. And it's equally hard to tell people how to do their job, when you do not share that job as your own.

Again, no one here is discouraging you from your efforts, but rather than becoming upset because no one is helping you directly with your counts and names in a timely manner, why don't you find a proactive way to solicit information directly from those who are are intending to help. They are the only ones who will be able to tell you if your heartfelt efforts will be appreciated or necessary at this time.

What's the use of a life jacket on a person in
a shark infested ocean 70 miles offshore and no
one knows he is until maybe 24 hours later when he is due to return.Then another day before a search team reach his asumed location. By then
he is shark's dinner.
What we need is a second boat, an inflated rubber dinghy, this is where the radeos,flares
and all emergency iquipment should be stored.
If the mother boat sinks the crew could be in that dinghy for any length of time until found.
More later.
Bowl

People please remember that of all the houses in Treasure Beach maybe there's 10 or less computers. This site is mostly gear toward Jamaicans & tourist living aboard ( you'll find that people who contribute most on this site are living overseas). One should not get upset because one doesn't get a quick response. Most of us who used or view Treasurebeach.net on a daily basis are not living in T/B.
Yes the fishermen needs help and yes I intend to help.

I was in Treasure Beach last year and went to a meeting at Kingfisher Plaza with the JDF and USAID about saftey of Fishermen and also about radios they have to give , sometimes last year some Fishermen were given radios, I know they do used them.

I'm in the process of trying to secure some lifejackets, and contrary to some comments on here the fishermen do used the life jackets and radios that was given to them.

As some of you said some Fishermen already have these items so it would be best to find out exactly what the need most, before giving them something they already have. If I'm successful in my endeavour I'll let you guys know.
PLEASE DON'T FORGET THE CREDIT CRUNCH!!!! most of us living in forign countries are feeling the crunch harder than some of the people in T/Beach mortages and the bills that decides to come twice a month ( anyone notices this).

What about your member of Parliment Mr. Christopher Tufton get him involve , he's the Minister of Agriculture and the last time I check fishing is agriculture. We need to help ourselves before looking to others for help.
The lest we can say is that we tried.

Put on raffle: Winner gets a goat, or boat ride to the Pelican Bar with lunch for two..a weekend at one of the villas (ask owners if they will give a weekend), a fishing trip to fish for king fish, a trip to Y'S Falls or a street party something. Treasure Beach take the batton and run with it.
This is my 50cents more like $20.00.

Please do not misquote me Sheryl.

"The fishermen I spoke with who make a living from far sea fishing already have life jackets and radios and their own antennas so they don't need to depend on any other antennas. This was their choice and they made it a priority to afford them."

No where in that statement does it say "all of the fishermen already have radios their own antennas and lifejackets"

There are many who don't have radios or antennas and would welcome them. There are many that have already, and some that could afford them but choose not to.

my four cents~
your comment
The fishermen I spoke with who make a living from far sea fishing already have life jackets and radios and their own antennas so they don't need to depend on any other antennas. This was their choice and they made it a priority to afford them.

Everybody clearly DOES NOT have their own
Perhaps a few do
BUT ~if they all had their own there would have been no need for BREDS to repair the old one which they got put up originally as the area really needed one.

Here's a simply solution Sheryl Go to the people of all Treasure Beach Bays . Get a commitee have meeting get the people of T/Beach involved, get a town crier (man driving around announcingevents) to announce a date that you've decided on so they can voice their needs and opinion.
Remember right now you are talking people who are out of the country.
Yes it's a good idea putting it on here, some of us will contribute not only with words but donations as well.

Here is an example why you need to get the fishermen you wish to help involve.

To my understanding BREDS went and brought fish pot wire after hurricane Ivan ( to give or sell at 1/2 price to fishermen) they did not ask the fisherman the grade of wire they used, they went and buy a grade wire that are not used by the fishermen (which by the way are loved by fishermen who fishes in Central America). I'm not a fisher person but growing up in Treasure Beach and having been back last year I know that names of the wire the fishermen used, Snapper wire, twil brand and inch mash ( I might not be correct but I've heard these names used alot ) if BREDS had gone to the people they would have got the right wire.
PLEASE go and talk to them Sheryl.

If there are any wives,mothers or children of deep sea fishermen reading this thread
I would like to hear your input on things and see things from your perspective.

perhaps somebody could discuss this issue with
the Chairman of the Calabash Fishermen's Co-operative Society, Shawn Taylor
see what he thinks too.

good ideas and comments put forward.
I am very aware that most people do not have internet access in the area,
a lot of names have already been put forward and I am thankful for that.
The plan was to provide ALL deep sea fishermen with safety equipment to try to put an end to the needless deaths that are occurring far too frequently.
If the fishermen think they are too tough or brave to use the equipment ,that is their perogative.
At least they were given the option.

one of the first things the donations are needed for is: the repair of the antenna and a surge protector which is vital.
breds are dealing with this and have said all contributions towards it are greatly welcomed.
The radios will not work without the antenna,so I suggest if anybody wants to help that this is where we start.You can send breds the donation on the account number i listed above and that will go towards the antenna.
30 radios have been donated and hopefully we will raise enough or secure enough lifejackets to provide one per crew member-if they wish to wear it and protect their life or not is entirely up to them.
I am not upset about anything ,I am very happy that progress is being made,the antenna has been repaired ,30 radios have been donated and people are already trying to secure lifejackets and wish to send money in,on top of that people are listing the names of boats so no boat gets left out.
That is fantastic to see.
Also the ideas of raffles etc going towards the fishermen is a good one-breds have things like that in place for various things.

Some issues can and should be solved quickly. Others may take time. Work like a hunter and think like a farmer. The key will be over time if things get forgotten, or do not seem as urgent as they do right after something happens. Indeed, fishermen have been dying for a long time.

jane public,thankyou for the insight to the wires they use.
I would definately recommend confirming details of items like that,as they can differ in length width strength etc.

as the radios and antenna have been in action before though we already know what kind of radio it works with,
also as long as the lifejackets are specifically designed for deep sea fishing,can't go wrong there really apart from somebody purchasing the gas ones which would not be appropriate.

I think it is a good idea to provide each boat with a radio and life-jackets for each crew,I also think an idea suggested by Icare2 was very good and that was to have 2 fishermen from each bay to help distribute items.
perhaps these 2 fishermen from each bay could go to a safety meeting and relay the information given.
We can only hope it saves lives.

As I know this might cause controversy!!! "because its the truth" as the truth has always dose...

Though i love fishing and respect people that take a lot of risk in fishing to make a living. since i was young i always have said that fisherman from treasure beach and all over Jamaica should take more precautions and use life jackets and flairs as well as inflatable rafts these were my ideas when i was about 17 or so,men have been lost to the seas since the "snowboy" tragedy just because of bad practices and lack of care and personal irresponsibility. check how many years that has been with out any changes. my problem is this, when these men go fishing whether the near sea , bank or the keys or further, it is their lives they are putting at risk and it's them who are in the boats. when these men return from fishing they squander their money and waste it by drinking-out their money for weeks, they spend it on over-drinking at every bar they can find open,that's the culture as if they picked money up off the sands,and it has no better use, people from the area can validate this easily. its true that if they were to spend the beer-money on safety equipments and devices many many many would still be alive today with us, but sporting and beer-drinking take precedence over personal safety, just like a car and the seat belt it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY AND THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THIS COLLECTIVE DRIVE TO PROVIDE THESE EQUIPMENTS,THE BEER MONEY WOULD PAY FOR THIS.when they get these equipment i hope it is used. just like a seat belt if you don't use it it won't benefit you... i hope for the best.!!!!!!

To the best of my recollection, the wire BREDS wanted the fishermen to use was more environtmentally friendly than the type the fishermen prefer. The difference is in the size of the holes in the mesh. BREDS wanted tiny fish to have an opportunity to escape (to be able to keep breeding), but the fishermen in Treasure Beach want the finer mesh. This was known to BREDS when they obtained the wire.

This could provide food for an interesting dilemma: Does one supply what is "correct" or what people will use? I could argue equally well on a debating team for either side.

It makes sense to have the mesh wider so that the smaller fish can get through,you have to think about tomorrow and not just today.
Karen thankyou very much for all of the information on billys bay ,I will add it to my map!.

I'd try to ask my great great great grand

children Mrs Kennedy.

This aspect is one thing, the rum bar

and sea superstitions are no help.

Thanks Marlon and thanks gb for "work like a

hunter and think like a farmer".

And fisher bredrin, I am not talking behind your back. I am expressing my feelings as I do face to face. Gentlemen expect this of one another!

ok i really hope that this is taken in the way i mean it but after reading this whole thread from start to finish...while its fantastic and really heartwarming to hear of sum1 so passionate about helping others - it has at times come across quite pushy and ill informed. it seems that one has become so determined to help that the exact needs of the fisherman from TB are still not known. Alot of the points made from people from TB or people who have lived in TB have been over looked Sheryl. ie: people trying to assist you and let you know that they too have tried in the past to organise these kind of donations etc and the problems that they have been posed with.
while i think it is fantastic that you are so passionate about helping and obviously a very kind and generous person i also dont think it is very fair to start naming those who have or havent donated
"By sheryl on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 03:12 pm:
beachgirl ,lisa, turey, myself and Icare2 are the only 5 people willing to donate it seems so far!"

People will appreciate your efforts there is no doubt about it but all im saying is perhaps relax a little....

Poor farmers havew lost their crops,no water,fertilizer very expensive,permanent back injuries from labouring in the fields etc. put together a list of the farmers also and let's get a fund going to help them,and don't forget the goat farmers,thieves giving them a rough time and they need rope to keep the animals off the roadway and out of our new park, so let us expand this project or put it to rest.

chilling-points noted,I am chilled,just trying to get help where it is needed,yes some past efforts failed but all we can do is provide the equipment and hope it gets used wisely.
That is all anybody can do and if it does save some lives,even better.

CHILL OUT,You made a few points I feel I should address,
Point 1)It has at times come across quite pushy and ill informed ....
The only point I MAY have made a mistake on was: if breds is registered or not ,and I only gave information out that they gave me.

point 2)The exact needs of the fisherman from TB are still not known...
After several deaths and the vital antenna being broken and men drowning without having a lifejacket,it was clear to a lot of people this area needed: a working antenna-working radios and lifejackets.Again-if the fishermen do not wish to use them that is entirely up to them.

point 3)People trying to assist you and let you know that they too have tried in the past to organise these kind of donations etc and the problems that they have been posed with.

BREDS organised the safety equipment previously ie antenna and radios etc and it seems they were appreciated as people are using them and the antenna was taken to be fixed so it shows the items DID go to good use.

Point 4)Don't think it is very fair to start naming those who have or havent donated

I did not name anybody who has NOT donated,I was just suprised not many people had said they would,but I have had private e-mails since then so I now know people are interested.
also you did not post the whole quote just part of it making it look bad,
I did go on to say the people that could not afford to donate money could perhaps help with other things ie phonecalls,emails listing boats etc,
which other people then took on board and helped with.
tbh I can't believe out of a whole thread you have picked out one line and tried to turn it around.
I am sure you know it was not meant in a mean way.

Turey, if it were up to me, people all over the world would do whatever they could to not damage the environment -- and to leave it in better condition than it is today. I believe BREDS offered the "correct" wire, whether or not it was accepted. (Being able to debate for or against something does not necessarily constitute an endorsement of a particular position.)

Your impartiality and clarity was understood Mrs Kennedy.

Whenever I loose heart, I think of my descendants and the effect of my small drop of caring in the greater picture.

Sheryl, it is obvious you are a very giving and concerned woman. Your efforts are wonderful. Please know it is not easy to raise money even for a good cause. I do not know how much Treasure Beach Foundation (not the Breds one) raises but they have 17 students on scholarship and I know that takes alot of money. One thing they do every year is a villa raffle. I buy a ticket and I see what they send so I know it is a huge amount of work for them. I am guessing you will not be able to raise 12,800 USD, so if not, have you figured how the things you buy with the money you DO raise will be distributed. This entire deal may end up taking alot of your time and result in alot of people squabbling.

I have now received confirmation from Tanya, director of BREDS and Jason henzell that they will gladly distribute items bought from cash donated or donated items and have people sign for them.
Please send money or items to breds treasure beach.

currygoat lover,I am assuming you are being sarcastic!
the farmers are having a hard time but you missing out on a curry goat dinner is not the same as the fishermen risking their lives for food!!

Hi words of wisdom,I Was thinking the same,
As there have been 30 radios donated (Perhaps that is enough for the boats,I estimated 40 boats but am still waiting for confirmation of this number)
Maybe 30 is enough??
the rest of the money will go towards the antenna repair and surge protector
The largest amount of money that needs to be raised is for the purchasing of lifejackets,one person on here is already trying to source some, as are 2 other people who have e-mailed me,in the meantime I am contacting companies and organisations to see if we can get any donated or if there are any other channels we can go through to get 160 lifejackets to treasure beach.
If anybody has any suggestions on who I should contact please let me know,
I would also be interested to know if the fishermen would like to donate any money towards the lifejackets say 1000ja each, that is about a fifth or sixth of their cost and I was thinking/hoping that if that was doable the amount the fishermen pay for the lifejackets could be put into a pot to purchase something else useful for the area,fishing or otherwise.

What do you think of this idea?then it would not be all charity and the fishermen get to help another project,if they could afford that amount that alone would raise over 2000 usd 160,000 ja (not sure if i wrote the jamaican currency figures correctly!)

Basically the next step is to keep sending
e-mails and making phonecalls and hopefully getting the lifejackets.
If only I could find 160 holiday makers out of the million that come to jamaica each year to bring one each LOL,
we will find a way between us all.

Again, I have to say, if the fishermen wanted lifejackets, they would budget their money to purchase themselves lifejackets. You are wondering now if they might like to "donate any money towards the lifejackets say 1000ja each"... Again, I have to ask you, don't you think they would already have them if they intended to use them or wanted them?

You need to go down there, and ask them personally and take a head count to get to the reality of whether you should be soliciting for donations for this lifejacket endeavour.

I don't want to be a killjoy, but like I said, I lived there, I married a fisherman, I donated lifejackets to other fishermen, and those lifejackets were never used.

That was me wanting to make some people I cared about safe. They did not share my concerns, and they indicated time and time again that lifejackets hindered their fishing.

Use the money on radios and surge protectors, and as for more safety concerns, you really need to ask the fishermen and take an actual head count so that you (and anyone who is donating money to your cause) does not end up disapointed because their money has been wasted.

A lot of people have been giving you very sound advise based on living there and knowing a lot of these fellas and how they stay.

Once again, I think your intententions are great, and your heart is certainly in the right place, but you need to get the facts from the people you are intending to make change their ways. You can't change someone who is fixed in their ways just because you say this will benefit them or save their lives. It is only the fishermen who will wear the lifejackets or not, and if they wanted them, they would be using their earnings to purchase them just like they maintain their boats, pay their crew, and buy fuel (like I mentioned before). They make a living, and they can have lifejackets which they pay full price for if they really felt they needed them or wanted them.

I continue to agree with you, my two cents.

But using your own argument, maybe you can't change a person's desire to 'help' no matter how rational your argument is and how much you use relevant examples to illustrate your point.

Can't help those who don't want help, now can you?

THIS IS A POST COPIED AND PASTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD BUT IS VERY RELEVANT TO THIS ONE,IT IS BY KORY SOUTH-

This is yet another avoidable tragedy in my opinion, but a real tragedy none the less. I encourage fishermen to check the weather before going to sea, there are 10 weather buoy's for the south coast, that show realtime weather conditions, wave heights, and knots of wind, the website is www.buoyweather.com, you go on this sight and click on atlantic islands, then click on Jamaica, a map of jamaica comes up, and you can click on the buoy closest to where you will be fishing, and there is your real time weather at that location. This is the one I use. I encourage all fishermen , if they dont have a computer, come to sunset resort and use ours in the lobby , please check the weather before you go out, somedays it looks nice from shore, but it is quite rough out yonder.

I have been in touch with Chris Tufton and Jason Henzel, the problem with the antenna was the cost to repair after the hurricane, I am informed that the company came and put back up the antenna recently, but as to date it is still not tuned properly, i was also informed that the cost was about 43,000.00 JA and i offered to pay for 20,000.00 of it myself upon it being in reliable working order. The Vhf radios are about 80.00 u.s for a good one, and GPS start at 50.00 u.s right up to 1000.00 I have a Garmin gpsmap76, they run about 250.00 now, I paid alot more when they first come out, worth every penny. I dont leave home without it and the radio.

When I heard the fishermen were missing I went on this website that morning, all the flags were red, not yellow, and not green, all were red. That sent a clear message to me the weather must of been really bad, so bad in fact that no boats could go out looking for them.

I too am very sorry for the families, I have visited with some of them, and I just pray that we dont see this again.

I am still trying for OCT,18,2008 to have the Memorial Monument completed unfortunatley this incident will put the totals names to 78, since 1963.

Kory South

Thankyou kory,it is lovely to know that if the fishermen need internet access to check the weather at sea they can come to your place if they are nearby.
Also great to hear about helping out with the cost of antenna repair,
this means the target of getting radios and donations towards the antenna repair are almost reached and now we just have to find out the final results on the lifejackets.
one person earlier said i was soliciting for money for the fishermen!!
I was just informing people of the situation out there who perhaps otherwise would not have known,It was a huge concern to a lot of people that a lot of men were dying and lives COULD possibly be saved by having this equipment.
I did also give the details of how people COULD donate IF they wished too,
to an organisation which is based in the area and has done COUNTLESS projects such as this so far.
Making people aware of a situation and telling them how they can help is hardly soliciting,I was not asking for you to post me the money!

I think we will still go ahead with the lifejackets,i think every fisherman should be provided with one,if they do not want it and will not wear it then maybe they can find some good use for it and give them to the tour boat guys ,they definately will use them as will the tourists.

OK, I hear you,
I still cannot help thinking it may still be a bit of a money issue,
otherwise -if they had enough spare money surely they would have purchased their own radios(that would be the full cost of only 1 lifejacket if they pooled their money together)
Also if ALL the fishermen paid 1000ja each they could have repaired the antenna themselves.
So I am wondering if it really is a money issue or they just do not want to do it,but the fact remains that men(friends and family)of these men are dying from not wearing the jackets,
And when radios/antennas are given they ARE actually used.

Fishing boats have been going out for generations in Treasure Beach. Fishing has always been a difficult and dangerous way to earn a living. Little by little, progress is being made toward safety, but this will never be a safe job.

I absolutely agree with My Two Cents and others who have patiently explained the fishermen are doing things the way they WANT, not the way that might be safest or best for the environment. To most of us, it may seem foolhardy that they would choose to risk their lives. They are not suicidal and they are not intending to get killed; they are fishing the way they are most comfortable. They are fishing the way they WANT TO.

Sheryl, without going to Treasure Beach and spending a lot of time with a lot of fishermen, this is something you will not understand because it does not seem logical to you. If you go to the beaches, you will see the men with their GPS in the boats and if the antenna is working you will probably see radios. If you see life jackets, they will all be shoved in the bow where they are not being used and getting ruined. If the men WANTED life jackets, they would have bought them and they would be using them. You cannot change the culture. Giving them life jackets or selling them life jackets for 1000J will not mean they will use them; people tend to value what they buy, not what is handed to them. No matter how good your intentions, you cannot change the fishermen’s habits or their culture. Life doesn’t work that way.

One thing bothering me is exactly what happened to the antenna because THIS is something the fishermen DID use. I went back to a Peace Corps document from 2003 and it said:

‘”Almost every family in Treasure Beach has lost somebody to the sea," lamented Oral Ebanks a fisherman who, between 1999 and 2002, lost five members of his crew to the sea. "But since BREDS, is like a new light in the area," he added.

The radio system works simply by outfitting each boat with a radio which is monitored by the boat's captain. Through a shared band all boats can immediately pick up when another is in trouble and arrangements made for rescue, if necessary, by a bigger boat or the coast guard.

Since the establishment of the radio system over a year ago, no lives have been lost at sea, Ebanks noted, while mentioning that the placing of a buoy to warn approaching boats of rocks, also initiated by BREDS, has been a big help.”’

This system has been publicized in a lot of places over the years. It was written up in our National Post (Canada) as recently as June 2008.

Kory South is an amazing fisherman. He knows what’s happening in Treasure Beach with the fishermen. He said he personally was and is willing to help financially to make this happen. What happened to BREDS commitment to this project? And if BREDS wasn’t on top of this project, why did the fishermen not get together and TAKE CARE OF IT ALL BY THEMSELVES?

I am not blaming BREDS for this situation because even if the antenna was something they said they would do and it was damaged during hurricane Dean, the fishermen COULD have gotten it repaired THEMSELVES. They are adults and they need to take responsibility for their own actions.

I think you should forget about the life jackets and get donations to help Kory get that antenna fixed. From what Kory says, that would only cost about 325 USD after his own contribution. Remember a lot of fishermen already have radios; if the 30 radios sitting around down there are not enough, then maybe you could get donations for some more radios. I think for maybe 2000 USD that could ALL be accomplished.

Go down there and talk to the fishermen. Talk to Kory. They will tell you all you need to know even if it is not what you want to hear.

It is BREDS that are repairing the antenna Donations are to go to breds towards this and for the surge protector etc.
The account details are posted above and all donations are greatly appreciated.
kory has kindly offered a donation to BREDS,

thought I would just clarify that incase people thought you now wanted them to donate to kory!

Amen Robert from Canada...
You echo my sentiments with far better eloquence!
Radios and clear communications would be money better spent for sure!

robert from canada,you have a few things wrong,breds are on top of the project,they supplied the equipment originally and it is they who have got it repaired it is also breds that have said they will be willing to distribute any other equipment we donate or raise money for.

kory is a fisherman who has offered a donation towards this project.

Kory South is the owner of Sunset Resort in Treasure Beach. He is a very civic-minded person, and he pretty much keeps out of the spotlight. If you know Treasure Beach, you would realize Sunset Resort is where so many community activities are held including the last Fishermen's Memorial Service (in March). He fishes for pleasure, not for work; but he is known for bringing in huge game fish. I think Kory's actions speak a lot louder than some people's words.

With all due respect, I don't think I have anything wrong here.

Sheryl... we all know who Kory is - Many of us reading here have lived in and been in Treasure beach many years. Kory is definitely a stand up guy - fisherman and businessman, and if he says he is going to do something, I believe it.

Same with Jason, same with Breds... these are people who have lived in and supported the people of their community long time! They also see the fishermen daily, and watch the sea everyday. I am glad you are trusting these people to take any donations given and use them in a way that "they" as fishermen and caring people of the community know will be used best... like repairing the equipment, purchasing radios or GPS, etc.

It would be interesting to have you follow up with them and report here (as you have thoroughly reported on your cause thus far) how many radios, GPS, and lifejackets they are able to purchase and donate as a result of your solicitation for donations. Though I am still hopeful that the radios and GPS and repairs will trump the purchase of lifejackets since those items would be useful and used.

Please be clear the Kory fishes. Thus, he is a fisherman. I do not think he fishes to make a living. I think sheryls comment is misleading. His main duty is owner of Sunset Resort.

Can someone, from breds say how much money have been donated to this organisation since it started,and how much have spent to help the people of Treasure Beach,donotion have been collected on our behalf and we the people know's nothing about what happen to this money,these are question we would love to have answer by breads.It's time we the people of Treasure Beach know's what's going on.If breds dont want to say on this website how much money have been donated and how mush have been spent please call a meeting with the people of Treasure Beach and let us see it in black and white.

All of the information needed is already here,
we are trying to raise money /get items donated to makesure the fishermen are going out to sea with safety equipment
They need radios, a working antenna and lifejackets,
So far -30 radios have been donated ,the antenna is repaired -but needs tuning
all donations towards that cost are appreciated and also towards the cost of lifejackets,there are approx 160 lifejackets needed.
If anybody can help with any of the above please contact breds and their information and banking details are in this thread.
thanks everyone.
any questions please ask,lets try to keep it positive.If the lifejackets are not wanted or needed by the fishermen then I am sure they will still be greatly appreciated by the tour companies,at some point though ALL fishermen will have to carry lifejackets

How long have the 30 radios been in Treasure Beach? What would have happened to them if Sheryl had not found out they were there? Why is it taking A YEAR to fix the antenna when this is one of BREDS stated projects? Something seems wrong.

Assume all the 160 life jackets will be taken by fishermen. Why not? Assume the vast majority will never be used. Assume the 100+ not used will be half-rotten by the time they are probably sold (not given) to the tour operators. Assume there are perhaps 10 to 15 tour boats, all who already have life jackets.

Instead, focus on getting the antenna repaired ASAP, getting functioning radios into the hands of the captains, and giving them the necessary items to keep them dry and functioning. Also, be certain each captain is aware of Kory's ability to use www.buoyweather.com and his willingness to show them how to use it.

That's quite enough. These men are adults.

Sheryl are you responsible for getting the 30 radios donated from US Aid? Did u contact US aid or were they donated before your campaign?

I am very concerned too myself. I think Karen Kennedy should be the head of Breds, her only interest is to help the people of the community

I am asking the same questions as I already did because I think they are important.

AGAIN: How long have the 30 radios been in Treasure Beach? What would have happened to them if Sheryl had not found out they were there? Why is it taking A YEAR to fix the antenna when this is one of BREDS stated projects? Something seems wrong.

How much has already been donated for this equipment, Sheryl? I ask because some have indicated a lack of transparency on the part of Breds. I also ask because that lack of transparency is making me not want to give even though it's a good cause. And I want to know what my money would go for. Are you still stuck on those life jackets or will it be radios or what?

Sheryl, are you on vacation? You have gone strangely silent. You started this string and seemed so enthusiastic, and now you seem to have disappeared. Many of us are waiting for answers.

I do not know what I can and cannot say as all of my posts are not posted,
If this happens to everybody then we do not get a full view of the situation.
It was breds that put the antenna in place originally,
I do not know if they said they would be responsible for that antenna forever!.
Yes, it did get damaged and breds have kindly repaired it,I do not think they had a responsibility to do that- but they did it anyway.
Tanya has already said any money donated towards the cost of that would be greatly appreciated.30 radios are already sorted out.
Nobody gave me an exact number of boats,a few people kindly named boats and I have a map with their names on...it was me who only estimated there are 40 boats,perhaps there is only 30,I am still waiting for confirmation... any money donated would go to purchasing extra radios,the cost of the antenna repair..and then lifejackets...I am hoping large companies will help with getting some life jackets donated.. and you can send it to breds,just tell them what you want it to be used for.
I have every faith in breds ,you only have to read about the excellent work they have done for the community in the past and present to see they are not about ripping people off..
They said they were going to repair the antenna (and they have) and they said they were going to get one put up in the first place (and they did,)I believe they also held first aid courses and lots of other things to help out,
I think people are letting their feelings about the sports park get in the way of helping the fishermen,and others seem adamant that they do not want to see the fishermen recieve the safety equipment,I have no idea why.
All I can tell you is every time I have contacted BREDS they have replied asap and have been happy to discuss things.Perhaps they don't like being spoke about rudely when they are only trying to help,afterall they do not HAVE to.

Hi Sheryl, where/when did anyone speak rudely to BREDS?

I did not know organisations had emotional responses!? Individuals sure. And to what?

BREDS exists to help. To shy away from a project based on perceived rudeness from unconnected sources is not in their charter as far as I know.

No one suggested keeping any equipment away from anyone. Some have suggested that this would be wasted on those who would not use it.

The Sports Park is an almost unrelated topic. I do not feel inhibited to contribute through BREDS as a result of this impass.

Hi Canada I second that...

Sheryl,they dont have to, but they are, If you are collecting money on behalf of some one, you are breds must spent the money for what it was collected for.We appreciate breds for starting this organisation, it do's not mean we dont want to know what's happening with the money.I have seen in the US so many organisation have collected money on behalf of others and those people dont see a dime of it,we didnot say breds are doing the same thing but we have a right to know.

Sheryl, you do not have to be defensive. I think you are mis-reading a lot of the comments in this string. No one has said or implied you are less than an honorable person who is concerned for the safety of the fishermen. Different people have tried to help you with counts of boats and fishermen in certain areas. Some people who know fishing and fishermen have raised what I think are excellent points about whether or not the items you wish to have purchased would actually be used. No one has said that Breds has not done many good things for the community. You seem to have a very good relationship with Breds and say you communicate with them often and they answer all your questions. Since you talk to them often it might be a good idea to tell them the unanswered questions about the RADIOS and ANTENNA are bothering some people. I for one would like the answers before I send a check.

If you do not know why all your posts are not getting posted you should ask TB.net what happened.

In answer to Turey..I shall correct my wording,rudely ABOUT breds not to them..you can speak rudely about an organisation...not in this thread particularly,
To the others, as I have said maney times before,
The money donated is initially for the antenna IF extra money is raised it will be for extra radios and possibly batteries and depending on the amount donated-lifejackets,I think I have mentioned a few times that hopefully some large organisations will also be able to help with lifejackets.
I do not need to contact breds again about this project as I gave them very clear intentions and they gave me a very clear and quick response.
They said any donations towards the antenna would be greatly appreciated and they will happily distribute and give reciepts for donations for the other items too
I do not think i can make it any clearer and I am not feeling defensive at all just concerned.
I tried to get this website to take payments through paypal as in the hurricane but they cannot.BREDS are very happy to help and I do not see why people are wary of letting them handle the donations.

p.s!-peaceful ,I understand your concerns but as breds will happily give all people concerned a receipt for their money and have the other end sign for their item then there is nothing to worry about.x

I have made very clear the intention which is to provide basic saftey equipment for the fishermen,
people who wish to donate towards this equipment which will save lives,can donate to breds and they will happily distribute items and give receipts.
As I am 2 bays short of names for the boats,I cannot get any further with the fair distribution of items,I am sure breds can help with that or people in the area can get a list of boats together so nobody will get missed out.
I did try my best.Sorry.
I hope donations are recieved and the equipment is used and saves lives.
Thankyou to everybody who showed concern and gave offers of help and to those of you that did help.
Thanks everyone.

Not to nit-pick Sheryl, but when did anyone speak rudely ABOUT BREDS?.

This perceived dis seems to be a factor in the mix, if it is, it would be helpful to point it/them out.

My ears ring* 24/7 as I never hestitate to speak my heart. However I am always open to sensible correction when needed. My skin though thin is protected by thinking twice and taking 3 deep breaths.

*tinnitus caused by chatting happening behind ones back.

A charity can provide a receipt and still do what it wishes with the funds. That has happened with non-profits as large and well known as the American Red Cross and the United Way. All US charities are subject to scrutiny by the US Internal Revenue Department, and many STILL do things that are less than upstanding with some or all of the funds they collect. Others have less than professional accounting practices. I have no idea under what scrutiny Jamaican non-profits operate. Even if they do, I would not think Jamaicans are any more honest than Americans. So asking about the use of funds, even when an organization has accomplished a HUGE LIST of wonderful things, is not considered an insult. It is considered prudent.

Sheryl...
If you are short names in different Bays, why not go down and take your cause on your own self since it is your cause, not Breds cause. You cannot contuinue to say that you are still waiting on information and names. You have continued to tout and defend your cause - if it is still of great importance to you and you want to see it through, then get to the Bays and get the information so that the companies, etc. that you wish to donate materials, money, supplies, etc. have exact information and numbers to make their decision. No one is going to donate blind to the details of the cause.

I also think it is rather unfair to put your cause on Breds since you have hit a stand still.

Just curious too, what is your tie to Treasure Beach? How much time have you spent there visiting the fishermen in all of the bays that you are requiring information for (and help for)? How many times have you visited the area to know their needs and wants? Do the people who you are hoping to help know you and even know about your campaign? Again, I am just curious, not attacking your cause which I have more than once said is very heartful. But you are expecting an awful lot from all of the online readers of this site, Breds, and the people in Treasure Beach that you are hoping to obtain information from in my opinion. Information brings results. To back away now and say that Breds will take it from here kind of negates your original intention, and information.

If this is your cause, take it on, own it, and get the information straight - it has become very confusing and convoluted.

My Two Cents:

I could not agree more. Admittedly it is difficult for someone from outside Jamaica to organize a fundraising effort, much less a program, to benefit Treasure Beach. It CAN be done, so long as one has knowledge of the area, perseverance, AND community ties.

Look elsewhere on this forum and see the postings done today by the 6 scholarship winners. Mrs. Kennedy lives in America, and SHE is making that happen. This is not to say she doesn’t have help from the community because I’m sure she must, but she is the one who has taken the responsibility.

Amen!!

Well, it's been 22 days since this discussion began.

I'm more confused now than ever.

I need a table of contents, an outline or something.

{note to self} when presenting a concept - DO NOT announce it on tb.net until it's wrapped up neatly and ready to roll.{/note to self}

So uhm... Where are we at with this?

Who's in charge?

What are donations being collected for?

What's the need?

Who's it for?

What sort of educational package goes along with these objects (radios, live jackets, whatevers)

How's 'bout a nice wrap up to this chaotic thread so the poor schlep who checks up on tb.net once/week can just get to the meat and potatoes. (or fish as the case may be)

not naive,
as breds were to collect reciepts from BOTH parties it would be very clear if things did not add up.
my 2 cents,
I have not put anything on breds whatsoever, as you may already be aware this was breds project originally anyway.It was they who put the antenna up originally and sorted a number of radios out.
I am not sure what you are confused about,I feel I have made it very clear that the fishermen need a working antenna radios and lifejackets,
any money donated will be towards the cost of the equipment,for which breds will happily distribute and get people to sign for.
I asked people to roughly estimate the number of boats in the area,so I could progress,I do not feel that warrants you saying I am asking far far too much of everybody.I asked very little.
As people are now seeming to be very negative towards helping the fishermen ,that along with some of my replies not being posted-please e-mail me any further concerns on this subject and I will happily answer to the best of my ability.
I will be there in person soon but I am hoping things will be taken care of by that time.

I am sorry to hear you are confused and find the project convulted

here is the idea-
provide deep sea fishermen with:
1 vhf radio per boat
1 working antenna for the area
lifejackets for each crew member on board.

anybody wishing to donate towards this can give to breds in person or through the bank.

they will give both giving and recieving parties reciepts which they will sign for.


Hope that clears things up for you,and I hope people do care.
Like I said feel free to e-mail me(if I am not asking too much)

Until the fishermen take an interest in their own safety nothing will come of these well meaning efforts to help them.
The Fishermen's Cooperatives were established by the fathers and grandfathers of today's generation of fishermen but the work of these cooperatives have mostly been abandoned by these young successors.
A properly organised cooperative would be the most appropriate vehicle through which the purchase of safety gears could be sourced (possibly at a discount) and distributed. These items would no doubt mean more to them if they had a personal stake in their procurement.
It is high time for the fishermen to take personal responsibility for their own destiny, to the extent that this is within their own power.
Well meaning efforts to take on the cause of these fishermen will not work if the fishermen themselves do not appreciate such efforts.
Again, I say, they have the ideal mechanism through which they could help themselves, with a bit of assistance from others such as Sheryl, but, let them organise themselves once more and take the lead.

Very difficult to email you Sheryl because you did not supply your email address.

I witness only positives from you Sheryl.

Be stubborn but open to learn new ways.

I'm many decades on but always have to keep my defensive nature at bay. My willingness to take on anything, anyone, anywhere and any way does bring some reactions.

We from The Rock will put the steadiest Saint to serious test.

I do detect the old "wha mek dem dat goh farin faas in tings ehhh?". My concern with my communities in Ja are as fresh when I am away as when I am home. If you are abroad, so what?

I can only work on myself. I cannot change what is in the heads of others.

The only certainty is change.

While there is a will there is a way!..to affect the direction of change.

Best wishes, turey.

interested bystander-10th post down my e-mail address
jamaicansmiles@hotmail.com

does anybody have an e-mail address for wilton graham,managing director of the calabash fishing co-op?i have the phone number but is there an email for this organisation?

here is a link to a newspaper article regarding import export of fish in jamaica and controlling the seas.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20061013/business/business4.html

HERE is an explanation of the different types of lifejackets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_flotation_device

I have just telephoned Mr.Wilton Graham, director of the fishermens co-operative to get advice and his opinion on the lifejacket issue,unfortunately he was un-available, a lady answered and there is no e-mail address so I will try again another time and let you know the outcome

thanks turey,I know some people do not like change but sooner or later they will not be able to legally fish without the safety items anyway-just as they cannot drive without safety items and having to follow instructions.
I was only thinking of them and the sooner they have what they require the better.I do not want to hear that another boat has been in danger-upturned and they did not have a radio to get help and they could not stay afloat long enough in rough seas.
the saftey equipment will stop that from being a problem.
is the fishermens co-operative up and running?

Hi Sheryl,do you know about some law the government are planning to put in place for the fishermen, that would be great,lets see if they will followed the law if one put in place.

Yes Sheryl, true we are not Canada, but up here dem don't joke bout safety of fishermen...and fish. Especially whales and dolphins.

Zero tolerance for mostly sensible rules; enforced by river and sea patrols with good tech and not much bad treatment but for some tasers gone wild in other depts.

Yet, we are older than Canada, as an ex-colonial outpost that is, and "As rich as a West Indian" is no more. So, funds thin and tech deficient.

Where did the wealth and the means of increasing it, or at least maintaining it, go? No not jus slavery abolish and loss of forced labour kill business surely more?

There is a question for a school essay and a parliamentary chat.

Off the thread as usual.

here is where all the new rules will start-they also went on to mention there will be strict rules on size of mesh wire so once again..well done breds for giving the correct wire.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20080725T210000-0500_138286_OBS_NEW_LAW _COMING_FOR_FISHING_INDUSTRY_.asp