Another Lignum Vitae Tree bites the dust

TBNet Forum: TB Runnin's: Another Lignum Vitae Tree bites the dust
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By chopped on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 07:04 am: Edit Post

What a tragedy to see yet another beautiful (and obviously old) Lignum Vitae tree cut down .. at the Treasure Beach Sports Park.

Why why WHY did it have to be cut?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Proof Positive on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 08:04 am: Edit Post

lignum1

lignum2

lignum3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 08:44 am: Edit Post

Who cares!?

Me.

And: http://www.humanflowerproject.com/index.php/weblog/comments/lignum_vitae_lets_pl ay_hard_ball/

Seems Lignum Vitae is protected under the CITES convention. I could not find a listing in the protected species act of the GOJ.

Another Treasure gone.

Is there a message here or are some simply clueless?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frightened on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 09:47 am: Edit Post

And this is my fear. The people of TB are promised one thing and another happens. First there were no night events ... then there were .... then there were promises of environmental caution ... then we cut lignum vitae trees ... I fear this will not end. Soon we will have all night Dance Hall and every ragamuffin in the country in the middle of TB all night. Mark my word - this "sports park" is a can of worms we do not need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:10 am: Edit Post

I am very distressed to learn of this. I saw the grove of lignum vitae trees at cashew park and thought they were beautiful and should definitely be retained. Lignun vitae trees are slow growing, far as I can recall, but am going to check, not being a botanist. I am going to research the possibility of putting a Tree Preservation Order on these trees. I would like to suggest to the concerned people in TB that they number the remaining trees - a can of spray paint and a VERY SMALL number on each tree would help. At least that would set up an inventory of sorts. Who owns the land, BTW? I might have been told but have forgotten... Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dj on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:13 am: Edit Post

WHO is cutting down these trees? WHO is behind it? WHY aren`t they being stopped?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sickening on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 09:55 am: Edit Post

This is a crying shame!! Such a beautiful tree just destroyed. Please, please lets take care of our planet. Look at what's happening in Haiti and all the recent hurricanes that hit them in the last two years. There was one report that showed a lot of the flooding they've had from those hurricanes could have been avoided, had it not been for the deforestation there. Don't let this happen to us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Too Awful For Words on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 05:36 pm: Edit Post

I do not know what to say. This is a sin. Not a minor one. I will never again believe one promise made by the people who are behind this sports park.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:35 am: Edit Post

PROFIT (money) is always put ahead of enviroment in Jamaica !!
Even in TB !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Disgusted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 02:14 pm: Edit Post

When the land for the Sports Park began to be cleared, one or more lignum vitae trees were chopped down. BREDS/Jason later said he had been unaware of it and would instruct the people clearing the land not to destroy any more of the lignum vitaes. Now there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for what is happening!! His apologies and promises seem to have meant nothing. Jason either has not provided strict instructions, the workers are not being supervised or he is only paying lip service and then doing exactly what he desires. This is nothing short of disgusting.

If we wait for the construction and the influx of people we will have no one except ourselves to blame for the ruin of Treasure Beach.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By pt on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 11:06 am: Edit Post

cant you guys leave treasure beach alone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By SO WHAT on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 03:48 pm: Edit Post

WHAT THE BIG DEAL ITS ONLY A TREE NOT A HUMAN BEIGN THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THING THAT PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK AT AND TALK ABOUT OR CARE ABOUT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By To Diana from JET on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 05:00 am: Edit Post

To Diana from JET: The land is owned by the Government of Jamaica. BREDS (founded and run by Mr. Jason Henzell) has it on a longterm peppercorn lease. This land is where BREDS will build the Sports Park. Presumably, it is more convenient to remove trees prior to construction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By de twisted sista on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 11:57 pm: Edit Post

if jamaicans do not take care of jamaica
how can they expect jamaica to take care of them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:43 am: Edit Post

There are many reasons why trees play an important part in things So What.

Our health and weath are tied with trees. If you Google the topics there is much to learn. Attention to humans is tied to our attention to trees.

The fact that the clearing of trees for the Sports Park, or Park with Sports, project was objected to strongly previously, this particular act goes against public opinion and the concept of Park. Does not make sense.

The fact that it was also a Lignum Vitae tree made the action bite more. If you are from the South you should know the reverence the old people had for certain bushes, Lignum was high on the list. Especially large old ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By angry on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:32 am: Edit Post

WHERE IS THIS LAND? IF IT IS WHERE I THINK HOW COME IT IS OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT?
WAS IT SEIZED FOR BACK TAXES?
HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND HERE.

MAY GOD HELP US ALL WHEN THIS PROJECT IS COMPLETED.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mnken on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 12:20 pm: Edit Post

My last post was as gentle as I could be, yet still did not get posted. Let me try to soften it even further...
Dear SO WHAT,
The environment and the ecology are very important.
Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By up north on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 06:04 pm: Edit Post

Can someone please say where this piece of land is located. There seem to be some nice homes not too far away. How will the noise affect them. I will try to visit Treasure Beach one day soon as it seems to be a friendly/safe spot for a vacation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wanting the Best for Treasure Beach on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 05:24 pm: Edit Post

Yesterday I submitted a post that I thought was within the bounds of all the proper-decorum rules set down for this site. I do not see my post, though today's posts do appear. I am sorry that my message is not posted, because i picked up and enlarged upon good points at least one poster had made.

Would the web master please indicate why my post was not posted? I would really appreciate knowing.

Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By To; Angry on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 04:59 pm: Edit Post

A prior MP obtained the land for the government had it leased to BREDS so the Sports Park could be built. I would imagine Mr. Henzell and that MP had worked out an arrangement in advance. So far as I know that land was not seized for back taxes. It was vacant, open land.

For more information, use the Search function on TB.net and look for Sports Park.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A Local on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 09:11 pm: Edit Post

The government can buy land for BREDS but can't pay teachers properly, pay nurses what they are worth, fix the roads, .... and on and on and on. I think this should be investigated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By green on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:34 pm: Edit Post

Lignum vitae is our national tree.DON'T FORGET,also,remember that it doe's not gtrow everywhere.I'm Jamaican and had to go to Treasure beach as a child to see and experience the JAMAICA NATIONAL TREE.Please preserve and take care.CHERISH WHAT YOU'VE GOT.Some places are so barren that nothing grows,be thankful TB.is fruitful cherish what it grows.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By maro22 on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 09:10 pm: Edit Post

I am lucky enough to have three lignum vitae trees on my land. They will not be touched! I desire to have as many native species as possible.

Does anyone have a resource that identifies native shrubs and trees in Jamaica?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 11:29 pm: Edit Post

I grew up around the Lignum Vitae tree, in Kingston. My other Southern Town.

I know the smell of the wood and some uses of the resin, Guicaci Resina in some old Pharmacopeas.

Here is some more info: http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/usdisp/guaiacum.html

I remember the old time wood turners and carvers and know some of the current ones. They all use Lignum Vitae and for the most part utilized the trees sustainably.

We supplied a Lignum Vitae bushing for an old waterwheel in the USA decades ago, about 30" external diameter. They could not find the material anywhere else. We tried to utilise the material from 'Developers' that either went to the dump or to charcoal burners.

We germinated it's seeds and learned it's likes and dislikes.

So, if I go on, it's because of an old friend that is being dissed! Bad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By T.B on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 08:57 am: Edit Post

Lignum Vitae is a vital source for honey making bee ,back in the days when there were bee-keepers in Treasure Beach,there was always alot of buzzing around ,whenever the tree are blooming ,so most of Jamaica honey were call Logwood honey while Treasure Beach honey were call LIGNUM VITAE (SAVE THE TREE)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 08:04 am: Edit Post

Maro 22, The Flowering Plants of Jamaica by C.D. Adams is a good start, no pics but local and botanical names. Check Amazon or Sangsters at UWI.

If I get a UWI consultant to do a flora/fauna ID on my land I'll announce this here so anyone interested can benefit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cuban on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 03:46 pm: Edit Post

Just wondering, if the tree was cut down by someone else would their be such an out cry?. Residents of TB has been cutting down Lignum Vitae and selling them to outsiders for carving over the years. I don't see that making the papers.I am sure the sports park will have many trees, just not where that one was. Some post makes it seems like Jason is some kind of environmental Criminal. All the property that Jason owns or manages are lush and green, so I would say he is concerned about the environment. I am sure he has planted more than he has cut down in TB. Even at Jakes many of the trees there has been around for years. Some people are just talking through the sides of their mouths, saving the environment is not only about saving trees. Maybe they should be more concerned about all the plastic bags around the area and what it will do to the reefs once it gets into the sea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Correction on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 03:13 pm: Edit Post

It is the National flowers not the national Tree


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By not leaving it alone on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 03:33 pm: Edit Post

To "PT".
Your words "cant you guys leave treasure beach alone" slightly baffle me.
I think anyone that takes the time to check and contribute to this forum cares a lot about Treasure Beach. Some of the things such as the cutting of lignum vitae trees, the sea and coastline being polluted, the much too loud noise at times from music sessions, a senseless expensive canal (I do think there should be drainage so as not to flood any houses, but the size they are building is ridiculously large and way over the budget), the reckless driving on narrow roads, thefts occurring ... are all issues that this community are dealing with now and if WE don't care, (that is, if we all "leave treasure beach alone") what can we imagine it will be like in say 5 years from now? Most likely it will be lawless like much of Jamaica with the residents hiding behind burglar bars, unable to swim in a clean sea, deafened by loud music, very few visitors (they will have found somewhere pristine, like TB of old!) and in general pretty miserable.
Please, try and understand that those of us who do care, are also willing to take the time to try and bring about a healthier Treasure Beach all round.
And we need all the help we can get.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 09:20 pm: Edit Post

As there does not seem to be any law protecting Lignum Cuban, anyone can cut trees on their own property.

This tree was cut after many objected to the clearance that was organised at the Park location.

I congratulate Jason for planting trees. I do not believe this excuses cutting an old tree for no good reason on Government property. It would be good PR for the quantity and type of trees planted to be published.

As in Kingston deforestation has resulted in more dust, more heat, less rain and loss of natural beauty.

Because trees were sold previously does not make the practice sutainable. If seedlings were made available and had been planted to replace those cut, burnt or blown down, the cooling groves I hear about would still be around.

As not only Lignum have been cut, the loss of green cover has increased.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 09:33 pm: Edit Post

Correct Correction, it is the national tree of the Bahamas.

No tree, no flower.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wanting the Best for Treasure Beach on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 10:10 am: Edit Post

To the web master: May I respecfully ask why you posted my query about why my substantive post was not posted, but didn't post the first post itself? I'm afraid I don't understand the logic behind that, and would appreciate an explanation, or would appreciate even more to see on the forum the message I spent some time on.

Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By TBNet on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 12:22 am: Edit Post

There are many places where we have said we don't accept postings on Tranquility Bay. Its an old subject and 'been there, done that'.

We appreciate that not everyone agrees with this policy. However, we ask that you respect our decision on the matter.

-TBNet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JET on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 11:28 am: Edit Post

To Cuban and everyone else who asks why one tree matters: It is obviously better if tree planting is done along with any vitally necessary tree cutting. But trees take time to grow - lignum vitae is especially slow growing. For all the time they are growing (and sometimes they die young, of course, in drought, in fires, in the mouths of goats etc) you don't get many of the benefits - the shade, the habitat, the protection from soil erosion, the beauty, the withdrawal of C02 from the atmosphere. So a principle of retaining mature trees, particularly slow growing native ones, is an investment for any community. I was recently travelling and saw a "Protect Tree Notice" on a not very magnificent tree in a US city. The fine for cutting it was over $20K US.

And please - the argument that "plastic bags are worse than tree cutting" gets us nowhere. Hopefully we should be able to agree on the desirability of BOTH the retention of mature trees and proper waste management.

Diana from JET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Resident on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 07:41 am: Edit Post

Miss McCauley, we are looking forward to you coming back to Treasure Beach. There is much you can teach everyone, including me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By res on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:06 pm: Edit Post

Guaiacum officinale (Lignum Vitae) is listed in Appendix II of CITES and an export permit is required for “all parts and derivatives except (a) seeds and pollen and (b) finished products packaged and ready for retail trade”. It is therefore legal to export Lignum Vitae carvings, unless the GOJ has introduced stricter regulations than CITES. So, CITES offers practically no protection for Lignum Vitae.

“Appendix II lists species that are not necessarily now threatened with extinction but that may become so unless trade is closely controlled. It also includes so-called "look-alike species", i.e. species of which the specimens in trade look like those of species listed for conservation reasons (see Article II, paragraph 2 of the Convention). International trade in specimens of Appendix-II species may be authorized by the granting of an export permit or re-export certificate. No import permit is necessary for these species under CITES (although a permit is needed in some countries that have taken stricter measures than CITES requires). Permits or certificates should only be granted if the relevant authorities are satisfied that certain conditions are met, above all that trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species in the wild. (See Article IV of the Convention)”.


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